Ads for Ludwigs' first double timp-toms?

[Jim Nevermann]

A question for use in the WayBack Machine.

You may remember that Ludwig designed and sold the first multi-shell tenors [Timp Toms: 14", 16", 20" x 12" deep] starting in early 1968. But you may not remember that they also sold Timp Tom 'doubles': probably 18", 20". I saw/heard two sets: the Racine Scouts and Seattle Imperials, though I know that other corps used them too.

But what I don't know was when, if at all, Ludwig actively marketed those double Timp Toms. Unlike their ads for the triples, I never saw anything in print about the doubles: no photos, no nothing. It seemed odd to me, because Ludwig always had an ad blitz on ANY of their new marching drums back then, certainly in their quarterly "Ludwig Drummer" info-mercial magazine and more so in "Drum Corps News". Yet there wasn't so much as one blurb about their double timp-toms.

Slingerland's "me too" hasty follow-up "Timp Tone Toms" had print ads of double and triple basses [single head, *wood* rim bass drums]. But there was nothing in print from Ludwig about their doubles... which is surprising because the triples were wildly popular.

How obscure a question is this?

[mobrien]

Checked the '67 Ludwig catalog, and there's no mention of multiple toms. The first catalog I see anything other than single tenors in is the 70/71 book. And they were presented like this:

Ah, the classic 14/16/18 combination....

I suspect that you're right in assuming that doubles and triples first showed up in the more specialized newsletters rather than catalogs, since that was the way that Ludwig really communicated with the heavy users.

[TAFL]

We marched the Ludwig duos and triples in Junior High. The duos we had were 14/16 (or 12/14) and the triples were 14/16/18. That was '77-'78 and the drums were several years old at that point; could have been the original models Ludwig put out. Never saw any ads for them, though.

TAFL

[jonnyboy]

When I started HS we had those triples! The player had them set up 14-16-18 from left to right, like a drum set. They were heavy as heck.

We also had from Ludwig a set of 6-8 metal bongos and 13-14 timbales set up like quads. As a freshman I played the only Premier "Royal Scot" Scottish snare, with no bottom snares. Add our march bell player and you had a four person drumline.

After marching with this line I don't know how I ever found drumcorps, but thank God I did.

Back to the triples: When we got a new director my sophmore year, he bought some new drums. I wanted to take those Ludwig triples and make them into basses, but the director got conned into turning them over to the music store in partial trade for regular basses. They probably ended up in the trash......booo.

[uncle z]

Is that a marching conga I spy?????

[Jim Nevermann]

Is that a marching conga I spy?

It is/was indeed.

After the initial success of their Timp-Toms [which, originally, were permanently connected together] Ludwig came out with a really versatile metal 'rail' type of rack, on which you could mount --and quickly remove-- not only the Timp-Toms [shown in the photo] but also the bongo/timbale cluster that jonnyboy mentioned, AND the bongo/conga cluster you see the right side of. In fact, Ludwig quickly thereafter came out with three different sizes of Timp-Toms: tenor, baritone, and bass... all of which are shown in the middle photo in the link below [New York's CMCC 'Warriors']. The top photo shows not only the bass triples, but also the later smaller-yet Ludwig tenors which replaced their 14", 16", 18" tenors. See them in http://www.rudimentaldrumming.com/oldphotos2.htm

Edited December 26, 2007 by Jim Nevermann

[mobrien]

Is that a marching conga I spy?????

Right you are, Mr Mikey. The infamous marching conga/bongo combination, gringo style.

One of our illustrious fellow FMM's has a bunch of the Slingerland and Ludwig 'authentic' congas in his house, using them as plantstands, which is probably their most useful purpose. They sure as hell don't work well as instruments....

Jim, interestingly enough, timp-tom duo combinations don't show up as a catalog listing until the '75 book (the one with the Guardsmen and their orange Vista's on the front cover), even though drum corps had all moved way past the duos by the early 70s. Then again, the Ludwig book was notorious for being several years behind what their sales team was actually working on; product was usually out in the public sphere for months or years before it showed up in their catalog.

Edited December 26, 2007 by mobrien

[jonnyboy]

Ah...the congos! We had blue/silver sparkle drums and our arch rivals had gold. Their band director used to teach at our school, when he left he must have taken the silver sparkle congos with him. At all county band practice I spied them, and noticed the NEHS (my school) on the inside.....so I took them and returned them. He must have had them for at least ten years!

They really weren't congos. The shells were about 11 inches up top, and went straight taper to about 9 or so, no curve like normal congos. I remember trying to put regular heads on them for fun, but it didn't work because of the size. Both drums were the exact same size if memory serves, you had to tune them to get the pitch differential. We never marched those, but with the rail system mentioned, they could have been easily swapped for the timbales or a tom with the Ludwig carriers.

[Jim Nevermann]

Ludwig 'authentic' congas in his house, using them as plantstands, which is probably their most useful purpose. They sure as hell don't work well as instruments.

But the Hawthorne Caballeros Alumni line, however, uses them to splendid effect!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avatar1/1343349628/

Unfortunately, living north and west of Seattle, I'm just a little too far away to march with them!

Edited December 31, 2007 by Jim Nevermann

[BennyBassDrum]

But the Hawthorne Caballeros Alumni line, however, uses them to splendid effect!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avatar1/1343349628/

Unfortunately, living north and west of Seattle, I'm just a little bit too far away to march with them!

Yes indeed-both the cabs and muchachos used congas and timbales effectivly for many years. Way back in 67, when I was with the meadowlarks in Secaucus, NJ-we had bought a brand new set of double bass drums-they were clear see through plexiglass, and had a wonderful ringing sound. they cost $1000 which, at that time, was a huge amount of money for a small corps to spend, but Bobby Thompson made them a very effective part of our drumline, and we had a very talented drummer(Gary Cook) playing them.......Ahhhh Memories.....................Benny