How do we save Drum Corps

[Tim K]

When you see the BSO, you are seeing one performing group that covers a couple hours of concert-time. If you look at a multi-corps competition, you are seeing a number of units covering that time, each with their own style and type of show. A single corps is 10+ minutes of performing time. If they do one basic style, and then another corps does another, etc....you are getting that variety over the course of the performance.

I agree, and I know the differences between a corps style and show, and since you judge (if my memory of other posts serves me correctly), you'd better know the differences since you're paid to know them. To the average person with little to no exposure to drum corps, are the distinctions clear, or are they "all the same" with the exception of uniforms? Excellence is important and hearing difficult musical pieces arranged for brass is impressive, but I'm not sure it is enough to fill stadiums or generate a new interest in drum corps. I think drum corps is learning not only that you can have both excellence and entertainment, but you have to have both. Last year had a number of corps that exhibited both excellence and entertainment in a way that seemed different. This has to be the case moving forward if we want to expand the activity and fill stadiums with more than an aging drum corps alums.

[MikeN]

Today high school music programs feed into drum corps. Without feeder units, there is no other alternative. So the health of bands does have an impact on drum corps.

The average age of a World Class marching member is 19. http://www.dci.org/about/ (you could even say the average marcher is a 19-year old male majoring in music ed in college) DCI is actually marketing itself across two degrees of separation - to HS kids that will <hopefully> major in music in college and participate in DCI.

Mike

[MikeD]

Are you saying the main reason why young people are not joining corps as much as in the past is because they are getting their "fix" in competative MB? I'd say it might be one of many reason and that' as far as I'd go.

One reason, not the only one, of course. When you look at the comparison of the hundreds of old local corps to competitive bands today, as this exercise has been doing...of those hundreds of corps, most of them were small local corps, and the members got their fix in those corps, like bands of today. Very few members on a percentage basis moved up to one of the class 'A' national caliber corps. There were not all that many corps of that level, just like today. replace 'small local corps' with competitive marching bands, and you see the same sort of situation. The few who really want to perform at the top audition for WC corps; most do not. Lots of reasons, of course, in addition to just getting their fix in the band programs, again the saem as the distant past. Finances is another one...probably not all that different today than it was "then". Not only the cost of belonging, but the lost/reduced chance to work in the summer to make money for school, etc...

[MikeD]

I agree, and I know the differences between a corps style and show, and since you judge (if my memory of other posts serves me correctly), you'd better know the differences since you're paid to know them. To the average person with little to no exposure to drum corps, are the distinctions clear, or are they "all the same" with the exception of uniforms? Excellence is important and hearing difficult musical pieces arranged for brass is impressive, but I'm not sure it is enough to fill stadiums or generate a new interest in drum corps. I think drum corps is learning not only that you can have both excellence and entertainment, but you have to have both. Last year had a number of corps that exhibited both excellence and entertainment in a way that seemed different. This has to be the case moving forward if we want to expand the activity and fill stadiums with more than an aging drum corps alums.

Oh, if DCI depended on aging alums they would be in huge trouble, absolutely agree. I don't think drum corps will ever really attract the old idea of "Joe Sixpack". Waaaay back in my day, you would see local people at some of the local shows, but that would primarily be when they were attached to some sort of community weekend event.

And, since there were lots of local corps in my area (NJ), you'd see all sorts of local corps jackets at shows, much akin to the busloads of HS kids you see at shows today. My friends and I used to go all over the area to see the Big Corps at shows when I was in a North Jersey GSC corps in 68 and 69, even as far as Philly for the VFW Nats finals.

I do agree that you need to be entertaining, but as in many things that is a very individual sort of thing. You see oldtimers bemoan the use of modern concert band music on the field (e.g. Holsinger)...at the same time, kids I teach LOVE to hear that stuff on the field, as that is what they are used to playing at school. Do I want a 100% steady diet of one thing? Nope. That is why I like it when corps program music to suit their personal styles, as many do.

[Jeff Ream]

Note what I said:

"No, it is not really a very different experience. Local corps of my day and local competitive bands of today are pretty much the same, only an average band today is much better than the small local corps used to be."

Of course summer touring is a difference if you look at today. I did not tour all summer long, and in my GSC days, rarely even a weekend. This thread is talkig about 'saving' drum corps and some are pointing out the days when there were hundreds of corps. THAT is what I am comparing.

BTW...bands today do often charge to belong; no, not as much as a touring corps, but it is not free for lots of bands. Local smaller corps that I am referring to were weekend preforming groups back in the day, just as bands tend to be today.

I have been teaching bands since 1971...the overall experience the kids in competitive bands get today is very similar to the local-style corps experience of my day. To claim otherwise is pure ########.

I saw what you said...the problem is your rationale is flawed. local corps aimed for that big show, even if it were just 4/5 hours away. with so many circuits out there for local bands, few travel that far if ever.

I also asked ifbands charged what drum corps today does.

here's the other thing I forgot to point out earlier....most kids, even BITD joined a corps because they wanted to belong. in HS, many kids join for the credit

[Jeff Ream]

Its funny that I just noticed this thread. I haven't really read through anything, but DCI did start a program called DCI Ambassadors. They are looking for volunteers to go around there local town(s) and promote DCI/shows. Heck, I signed up and I might be talking to the local boy scouts/cub scouts where I live (I might show them some clips of The Cavaliers or Madison Scouts). I also might talk to my old high school director and see if he will let me speak in his classes about what DCI is and talk about the Houston/SA show this summer.

I honestly think this is a good idea for DCI... lets hope it works.

yeah, if your town has a local show

[BRASSO]

I remember in the mid-70s watching football with a new friend from the Boston area. During halftime, I made some remark about drum corps and was surprised by his response. I was from a small town in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia - far from drum corps and drum corps shows. He was from a hotbed of drum corps talent. He knew the 27th Lancers, the Crusaders and lots more. He said he'd been to lots of shows in his hometown.

And he hated them. Said all the corps, all the shows, were the same. Couldn't figure why folks made such a big deal about drum corps.

Look, its simply impossible for anyone to say they had " been to lots of Drum Corps shows in his hometown " and that he " hated all of them". NOBODY pays in time and money to go back over and over again to watch something they " hate ".That just doesn't pass the smell test, you know ? Even in "the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia" the folks there don't keeep going back over and over again " lots of times " to spend 4 hours and pay good money to watch shows they have come to realize that they " hate ". So my guess, your " new friend " was pulling your leg. Do you spend your time and money going back over and over again to " lots of shows " that you don't like ? Well, neither does anybody else. So this" new friend you met from Boston" at the football game back 42 years ago that supposedly told this to you ( your words: ) " during halftime " ... that day 42 years ago, ran a QB sneak on you it appears to me.

Edited May 1, 2012 by BRASSO

[SkyRyder_FMM]

What really matters is that things are more healthy all around. I mean, back in the 90's you had several corps, event top 12 corps running out of money weeks before the end of tour. It was bad.

These days, you have only isolated incidents of instability, very rare, and not in world class.

Things ARE improving. Things ARE absolutely better than before.

The overall quality of experience for participants is better now than it was years ago. I am really impressed with what some organizations are doing.

Right now I'm thinking about where to recommend my young nieces and nephews (I have 28 of them... none are old enough to age out yet) to march next season. It's about where I can trust they will have a good quality of experience. The great thing is that I'd feel good with them going almost anywhere. Really. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 +.... the options I would feel confident that they would have a positive, safe, educational and high quality experience would be much more limited.

So, to me... this and sustainability (both financial and participation) are the only measurements of progress that really matter at the end of the day.

I'm not sure what your definition of rare is Daniel, but a quick read of the 990's for World Class will show you that financial instability is anything but rare (including top 12). A couple of the corps with the worst financial position are current and former finalists.

[MikeD]

I saw what you said...the problem is your rationale is flawed. local corps aimed for that big show, even if it were just 4/5 hours away. with so many circuits out there for local bands, few travel that far if ever.

No, they didn't all aim for that 'big show' back in the days prior to DCI. Read the OP...we marched locally all season. The furthest we traveled was to Wildwood in the GSC corps I marched with, for instance.

I also asked ifbands charged what drum corps today does.

Not relevant in discussing the idea that to 'save drum corps' we need to go back to the local model like prior to DCI, as the OP posits.

Bands do charge; the amount varies by the financial needs of the particular band.

here's the other thing I forgot to point out earlier....most kids, even BITD joined a corps because they wanted to belong. in HS, many kids join for the credit

And many don't...they don't even get a credit for marching band in many cases. They join because they want to, just like drum corps.

[glory]

Look, its simply impossible for anyone to say they had " been to lots of Drum Corps shows in his hometown " and that he " hated all of them". NOBODY pays in time and money to go back over and over again to watch something they " hate ".That just doesn't pass the smell test, you know ? Even in "the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia" the folks there don't keeep going back over and over again " lots of times " to spend 4 hours and pay good money to watch shows they have come to realize that they " hate ". So my guess, your " new friend " was pulling your leg. Do you spend your time and money going back over and over again to " lots of shows " that you don't like ? Well, neither does anybody else. So this" new friend you met from Boston" at the football game back 42 years ago that supposedly told this to you ( your words: ) " during halftime " ... that day 42 years ago, ran a QB sneak on you it appears to me.

Your search for a conspiracy is obscuring the truth you (some of you, anyway) would rather not admit: Back in the day, attendance at community drum corps shows sometimes had as much to do with community as it did with drum corps.

The young man I'm referring to grew up in a community that had its own corps and its own show. He went to shows because that's what you did in his community. On those summer nights, the community showed up in the stands to watch.

But they weren't all drum corps fans. It didn't matter that 27th might have been playing "Danny Boy" or that shows were more "entertaining" or "accessible" or whatever adjective you care to apply. Some portion of the stands was occupied by the folks who came to the community event. That drums corps were performing was incidental to some in attendance.

That's what you're forgetting. These were community events. Just as the membership drew from the community broadly, the stands drew from the community broadly. Not every member of every corps was dedicated. Not every attendee was in love with drum corps. Some members returned the next year only because their parents, friends, priests, police and community expected them too. Some "fans" too.

HH