How do we save Drum Corps

[wvu80]

I went to shows in the 70's. There were in many cases more corps than you had at shows now, and many of them were pretty #### good for the standards of the day.

Absolutely agree, Jeff. I would say for an ordinary local show within couple of hours of my stomping grounds in West Virgina (Columbus, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati) there were usually 6 corps and up to 10, all playing those loooong 15 minute shows, add in the intermission and we were having AT LEAST 3 hours of fun sitting on wood bleachers. And not that it matters, the shows were poorly run, with major delays. A 7:30 start might have me leaving after the encore performance near midnight.

I might gently disagree about how good the lower corps were. Of course, the top 12 then were just as desirable to watch as the top is today; they are today as then, the BIG BOYS, the corps all of us would pay good money to see.

But then there were those tiny corps of maybe 40 to 50 (and there were a LOT of them) you had to endure to get to the really fun groups. And they were SEARCHING for tunes to get them to the full 13.5 minutes of the show. If the winner scored an 80, there might be 4 or 5 corps scoring in the 60 and under range. Not good.

With all due respect to you and your excellent memory, and apologies from me and my fading memories, but when it comes to watching the first 3 of 4 corps of the night at a local show, THESE are the good 'ol days.

+++

I dug this program out of my archives, just for you. ;)

In my hometown of Parkersburg, WV July 21, 1984

1. Garfield Cadets 94.3

2. Crossmen 86.0

3. Bridgemen 80.5

4. Les Eclipses 74.2

Les Eclipses is listed as marching 122 (128 max), which I would call a full corps for the time

5. Avant Guard 68.8

6. Pride of Cincinnati 57.9

Edited May 2, 2012 by wvu80

[Jeff Ream]

I'm not sure what your definition of rare is Daniel, but a quick read of the 990's for World Class will show you that financial instability is anything but rare (including top 12). A couple of the corps with the worst financial position are current and former finalists.

exactly. Some of the best corps financially arent gunning for a ring every year

[BRASSO]

Your search for a conspiracy is obscuring the truth you (some of you, anyway) would rather not admit:

That's what you're forgetting.

HH

Well, your memory I have to admit is WAY better than mine. You just told me above what a new person you met told you ( in your words : ) " at halftime " of a football game in ( your words : ) back in the" early 70's".

I can't remember what someone told me at a halftime of a football game from a few months ago let alone one from 40 years ago.

If someone told you 40 years ago that they went to" lots of Drum Corps shows ", but that " they hated" them, they were probably pulling your leg. Sure, there are girlfriends, family, boyfriends that go to shows... even today, that " hate the shows ". That is certainly true in any era. 1970's or last year. But they are not representative of the audience. There are people that go to the Symphony or Opera that hate the symphony or the Opera but their loved one drags them along " lots " of times.. But this is not representative of theatre goers at all either. So I would not be bambozzled by what somone allegedly told you at a halftime of a football game 40 years ago. He might've been tailgating, had a bad ice cube in his drink and so it might've been the alcohol that was talking to you, and he really goes to the football games because he likes to eat and drink and meet new friends,etc yet he hates football as much as he allegedly did the 27th Lancers... who knows.... and his alleged comment that " all the Corps and all the shows " in the 70's were the same, is just silly. Nobody can say that the Hawthorne Muchachos, 27th Lancers, Velvet Knights,Boston Crusaders, Bridgemen,Cavaliers, Caspar Troopers, Blessed Sacrament, Madison Scouts, Anaheim Kingmen, Kilties, Arbella All Girl Corps, Garfield Cadets, were " all the same Corps... with the same shows" Someone can say they may not like the Corps,.. thats appropriate... but to say "the Corps( and shows )were all the same " is to be simply severely eyesight deficient at the very least. So your new found friend might've caught a bad icecube in his drink that day at the tailgate, or he really was just pulling your leg, or something else was amiss there at halftime of that game 40 years ago on what he supposedly told you.

Edited May 2, 2012 by BRASSO

[danielray]

[audiodb]

1st maybe soccer is doing great BUT you arent looking at the big picture..

Actually, I am....which is what makes my point noteworthy.

Boy Scouts are 1/2 the amount of kids now from 1972...many or most civic programs are down or gone..forget church groups....

Yes. And in the face of all that, there are some youth activities that have grown over the past generation.

How can you say kids dont have more choices than we did back then..

I can't say that....so I didn't. But regardless of how many choices kids have now, there are some youth activities that have grown over the past generation.

Its a whole new world.....the activity serves a very different kid today. Maybe I see it different because i deal with kids today and their issues and they by no means are the same as we were.

Yes. Yet no matter how much kids have changed, there are some youth activities that have grown over the past generation.

Instead of making excuses for why we should fail, why don't we look at successes and find ideas we can use?

Next, Drum corps is as competitve as it always was...less corps? yes...less interest yes compared to the 60s maybe...Different times and needs...as far as contests BITD were all over the place and anyone could win or flip flop because the tick system was a horror and was at the mercy of more of a personal opinion and tollerence and was a totally unaccountable situation.

Understood. Yet, for all the shortcomings, it is interesting to note that fan (and member) interest was higher, perhaps even stoked by the more unpredictable nature of the competition.

[JonW]

Unpredictable - that is definitely an element I'd like to see make a return.

[audiodb]

If you went to almost any local show back in the day, there was a general hierarchy as well. At the class 'A' level in 71, for instance, most of the time here in the Northeast Blue Rock won, 27th was second, Garfield was third. Boston, Blessed Sac and St Rita's followed up...every so often there might be a position change or two, but usually that was the hierarchy.

First of all, that is pure fiction. Here are some 1971 contests with placement order different from your supposed "hierarchy":

6/12 Boston: Blue Rock, Boston, 27th, Garfield

6/13 Revere: back to your order

6/19 Toronto: 27th, Garfield, Blue Rock

6/20 Batavia: Garfield, 27th

7/9 Garfield: back to your order

7/11 Hempstead: Blue Rock, Garfield, Boston, 27th

7/15 CYO: Blue Rock, Boston, 27th, Garfield

7/17 World Open finals: 27th, Blue Rock, Garfield, Boston

8/7 Union: back to your order

8/8 Dream: 27th, Blue Rock, Boston, Garfield

8/18 VFW finals: 27th, Blue Rock, Garfield, Boston

As you can plainly see, these four corps were flip-flopping all over the place.

Secondly, you can't possibly pretend that today's contest results permit the same kind of "any given day" outcomes, where a middle-to-lower finalists could catch title contenders in the manner you saw (and did) in 1971.

[audiodb]

Our old church had to stop the scouting program because of lack of adult help. Parents wanted to help but in a lower income area things like earning enough money to pay for food come first. So you can't help with the kids if you're pulling that weekend shift at teh Uni-Mart making bread money.

Excellent point....one reason I've been saying that "recruiting" shouldn't be limited to marching members. We need to recruit adults for administrative staff and volunteering as well.

[audiodb]

My comparison is between competitive bands today that have replaced local field corps of back in the day.

But bands haven't "replaced" corps. Perhaps you see them as interchangeable (and choose to ignore people who don't). But even if you accept the band = corps premise, your statement still isn't true.

Ever since your marching days, the junior corps experience has been available to kids throughout the 13-21 age range, with no systemic geographic limitations. Competitive marching band is only available to high-school kids whose schools are among the 20% of schools that have a competing marching band. If your kid sees a marching band and wants to join, but your town's HS doesn't have a competing band, tough luck. You can't join the band in the next town.

Bearing that in mind, for marching band to have literally "replaced" drum corps, the programs would have to be located in the towns where these drum corps used to be. But reality is quite the opposite. Marching band grew more prevalent in areas that historically lacked junior corps activity, like Texas, Indiana, and several Southern states. Even in the Northeast, the locations of competitive marching band programs don't correspond to past drum corps hotbeds. I don't see scores of competing marching bands hailing from Newark, Garfield, NYC or Boston. I do see lots of them in suburban towns that had no drum corps heritage.

[audiodb]

Back in my local-corps days, pre-DCI, nobody came from more than one or two towns away from the corps.

So when you left the Imperial Guardsmen and joined Garfield, you were the very first "import" in the history of drum corps?