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WGI, Time for a change?-


drumguy50

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After watching the indoor percussion activity for several years I am of the opinion it is time for some changes at the top. The activity seems to be going away from the best playing group winning and towards the ones with the most props and artistic development scoring the best.

Mark Thurston was a great instructor in his time but I am afraid the goals are being changed. I really don't know who Andy Sanders, Jimmy Haskell or Caleb are. Perhaps time to bring some more of the early people back such as Ward Durrett, Rick Brown and others I am not sure there is a place for early stage groups to be involved any more and the farther you move from playing to props the more it becomes the one with the most money wins.

Last year the overall amount of groups attending shows declined. Likely because of the economy and money.

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After watching the indoor percussion activity for several years I am of the opinion it is time for some changes at the top. The activity seems to be going away from the best playing group winning and towards the ones with the most props and artistic development scoring the best.

Mark Thurston was a great instructor in his time but I am afraid the goals are being changed. I really don't know who Andy Sanders, Jimmy Haskell or Caleb are. Perhaps time to bring some more of the early people back such as Ward Durrett, Rick Brown and others I am not sure there is a place for early stage groups to be involved any more and the farther you move from playing to props the more it becomes the one with the most money wins.

Last year the overall amount of groups attending shows declined. Likely because of the economy and money.

Do you have any particular examples of your assertion in mind, or are you just trying to stir things up? If you really don't think Mystique was the strongest musical group last year, I don't know who you were watching. Maybe you're talking about scholastic groups. Many of those groups are being seen by those judges for the first time at Worlds. The majority of the scholastic groups can only make it to one, maybe two regionals. Its complete blind luck if they manage to see some of the same judges in Dayton that they saw at their respective regional. Its hard to accurately judge groups based on a first read. There's no way to keep up with 25-30 people running around a gym floor. I'm interested to hear your suggestions as to what can be done to make things better.

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Do you have any particular examples of your assertion in mind, or are you just trying to stir things up? If you really don't think Mystique was the strongest musical group last year, I don't know who you were watching. Maybe you're talking about scholastic groups. Many of those groups are being seen by those judges for the first time at Worlds. The majority of the scholastic groups can only make it to one, maybe two regionals. Its complete blind luck if they manage to see some of the same judges in Dayton that they saw at their respective regional. Its hard to accurately judge groups based on a first read. There's no way to keep up with 25-30 people running around a gym floor. I'm interested to hear your suggestions as to what can be done to make things better.

I am talking anything below World. I suggest some new blood might refocus some things.

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I am talking anything below World. I suggest some new blood might refocus some things.

Again, can you be more specific? I don't recall a placement at worlds I didn't think made sense. If you think the group that plays the best should always be the winner, perhaps you should pay more attention to the concert groups, as they are purely music related, and their sheets reflect that. There is a visual aspect to the activity, and some groups do that better than others. There is an aspect of the show that is affected by design. That's no different from any other judged artistic endeavor.

So again, what are your specific issues?

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If you look at the scoring, playing well counts. In fact, on the PA sheet, performer is 25 of the 40 points, not book.

yes the visual stuff can be a little out there from SOME groups...but not all. As a staff member from a Scholastic A Class finalist, I will openly admit those that beat us played better. I saw all of World at prelims, and the best playing teams won.

now if you want old school rams with tons of notes that don't make musical sense, then WGI may not be the place for you, which is my hunch on where this topic is aimed. But it's far more than "he who plays the most notes wins".

I think the current admin team is doing an AWESOME job with how they are running WGI percussion. We were only able to attend one regional, yet we had many second reads at Dayton over the 2 days we performed. I know some first reads turned out better for us than the second reads did.

Mark made a comment to me last year that after seeing many groups shows me playing the best wins: "The groups that focus on the visual sheet and overall effect will never win. They focus too much on 40% of the total number, and not enough on the 60% that playing well counts for."

He was 100% right

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I just wish they would do less of that sissy-boy dancing.

Cute picture, but Jeff's point is contrary. Those who spend too much on "sissy dancing" stuff will soon learn they can't win with it.

I like WGI scoring because the math tells you where to place the emphasis.

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"old skool drmmr", are those triples yours? They look to be in very good condition... and, best of all, without Slingerland's really *lousy* designed carriers: either version. I've always wondered what non-marching manager at Slingerland approved their manufacture. Oh man... those carriers were AWFUL!

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Without even reading this thread, I completely disagree.

Go watch last years Scholastic World Class Champion Arcadia High School and tell me that they were not the best playing group there. They were quite possibly the best and most aggressive sounding high school battery I've ever heard in my life. On the Independent World side of things, Music City Mystique was spotlessly clean.

I've been affiliated with indoor groups that have competed in WGI and have been through judges critique and looked over recaps from shows we've been involved in for the 5 years I was involved. I can assure you that if you don't play well, you won't win.

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I am talking anything below World. I suggest some new blood might refocus some things.

To clarify on my last post as well. The group I was affiliated with was in Independent Open and Independent A class. The same rules still apply as World class.

The class system is designed based on skill level. A class is designed as a beginner class. Of course those kids don't play as well as Open and World class but the score sheets used are still the same.

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