[JimF-LowBari]

danielray, on 16 February 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Students do this all the time. California, for example, loads of kids go to community college for 2 years in order to go on on to finish in the UC system.

I went my first two years at Fresno State, then went on to Juilliard. I couldn't go straight out of the gate because I couldn't get in at the time and couldn't have afforded it if I did. Transferring is a completely different set of criteria, because you have proven what you can do and can show progress, rather than being unproven. Drum corps is no different.

The reality is that the majority of kids that audition and get cut from top corps don't end up ever marching anywhere at all. Loads of kids audition for their ideal corps.... and it is either there or nothing. This is the mentality of kids.

Would you have paid the same amount for CC as for a UC college? (Did the CC/state school route myself). What I heard wasn't ego but the "for what I'd pay it isn't worht it" (see above post).

[danielray]

JimF-LowBari, on 16 February 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Would you have paid the same amount for CC as for a UC college? (Did the CC/state school route myself). What I heard wasn't ego but the "for what I'd pay it isn't worht it" (see above post).

Well... the figures are completely different depending on each kid's individual circumstances. Some pay more than others for exactly the same thing.

I would love to see drum corps in a solid enough place financially to be able to do the same... where any kid that has the desire and ability can participate, regardless of their financial situation.

Someday.

[Stu]

danielray, on 16 February 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Students do this all the time. California, for example, loads of kids go to community college for 2 years in order to go on on to finish in the UC system.

I went my first two years at Fresno State, then went on to Juilliard.

For your example to be applicable to DCI corps the cost (tuition, food, transportation, etc) of community colleges in CA need to be around the same as UC; and the costs of Fresno State are around the same as Juillard. Why? Because counting fees, dues, travel, etc it costs about the same to march with a quality lower corps in DCI as it does a multi-ring winning WC corps.

[Stu]

GUARDLING, on 16 February 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

corps set their fees not DCI......and OC corps may or may not travel less, if they dont cost to travel isnt any different from a WC corps, If you have a decent staff..maybe or maybe not they would charge less... Sometimes staff will charge more. I know that doesnt make sense but even people who will do A VERY COMPETITIVE HS will get more to do that HS than a WC corps.
Were also talking drum corps here not a university.

Corps set their own fees but it is based on being involved in DCI. And while a multi-ring winning WC corps may charge $3000 in fees and another yet-to-win WC corps charges $2600, or an OC corps charges $2100, the cost of transportation, time, etc to all of those corps camps have to be factored into the bottom line which makes the overall cost differential rather small. And while corps might not be universities, the educational aspects of instruction are still there.

[Stu]

danielray, on 16 February 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I would love to see drum corps in a solid enough place financially to be able to do the same... where any kid that has the desire and ability can participate, regardless of their financial situation.

Someday.

So, what you are stating is that if a high caliber playing 19 year-old auditioned for most DCI corps today, but that kid is currently living in poverty, he/she would be sent home by most all of the corps and not allowed to participate? Not buying into that argument for a second.

[danielray]

Stu, on 16 February 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

For your example to be applicable to DCI corps the cost (tuition, food, transportation, etc) of community colleges in CA need to be around the same as UC; and the costs of Fresno State are around the same as Juillard. Why? Because counting fees, dues, travel, etc it costs about the same to march with a quality lower corps in DCI as it does a multi-ring winning WC corps.

It all depends on what you want to get out of it. For example, Fresno State is an excellent program if you plan to go into music education, but Juilliard sucks if that's your goal. Also, it has to do with the overall experience. Fresno State was actually a better experience socially and I actually enjoyed my time there better... there wasn't as much pressure and was treated better. I was there on a full-ride scholarship, played in the top ensembles, while had to constantly be proving myself and had a crazy amount of pressure at Juilliard. There were times that I genuinely hated it.

When it comes to drum corps, I think kids do evaluate more of what their goals are in a very similar way, what they want to get out of it and what the experience is for them individually.

If you're a soloist or lead player in a top corps... probably a much different experience than being one of the last to make the cut.

[Stu]

danielray, on 16 February 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

It all depends on what you want to get out of it. For example, Fresno State is an excellent program if you plan to go into music education, but Juilliard sucks if that's your goal. Also, it has to do with the overall experience. Fresno State was actually a better experience socially and I actually enjoyed my time there better... there wasn't as much pressure and was treated better. I was there on a full-ride scholarship, played in the top ensembles, while had to constantly be proving myself and had a crazy amount of pressure at Juilliard. There were times that I genuinely hated it.

When it comes to drum corps, I think kids do evaluate more of what their goals are in a very similar way, what they want to get out of it and what the experience is for them individually.

If you're a soloist or lead player in a top corps... probably a much different experience than being one of the last to make the cut.

So, the overall financial cost to attend Fresno State is really close to the overall cost of attending Julliard just like the overall cost of marching with a lower tier corps is near that of a multi-ring winning WC corps; correct?

[danielray]

Stu, on 16 February 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

So, the overall financial cost to attend Fresno State is really close to the overall cost of attending Julliard just like the overall cost of marching with a lower tier corps is near that of a multi-ring winning WC corps; correct?

I'm just saying there are many more factors than cost for the kids that do participate. Some of these have to do with proximity, instructors, friends, and so on. Money is not the real factor for kids in deciding where to do... it is mostly a factor for those where cost is a barrier for them.

Also, there is often a huge gap in mindset between many of the kids that simply audition and the kids that actually participate.

[JimF-LowBari]

danielray, on 16 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'm just saying there are many more factors than cost for the kids that do participate. Some of these have to do with proximity, instructors, friends, and so on. Money is not the real factor for kids in deciding where to do... it is mostly a factor for those where cost is a barrier for them.

Also, there is often a huge gap in mindset between many of the kids that simply audition and the kids that actually participate.

May I ask where you get this information from?

[JimF-LowBari]

danielray, on 16 February 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

It all depends on what you want to get out of it. For example, Fresno State is an excellent program if you plan to go into music education, but Juilliard sucks if that's your goal.

For the ones who responded to my thread it isn't "what you want to get out of it" but "what is it worth to me". So pay $$$$ for MusicEd at Fresno would be more "worth it" than Julliard for the same amount of $$$.

But to put it bluntly doing corps is a luxery item. So if a potential member doesn't think they will get their moneys worth, they stay home.