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Take a look at the DCI regs on start-up corps. No matter how big or how good they are they have to spend at least one year in OC before they can even apply for WC, then the evaluation process begins which is like having a flashlight shining on your butt for at least another year or two and that's bare minimum. It usually takes a lot longer than that.

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in several cases some corps dont have both

And IMO there needs to be stricter financial and competitive oversight standards set for all of the corps by DCI. This following oversight plan would work, and make the organizational corps stronger, if the people in DCI would just do it: a) If a corps has financial stability and is competitive enough to make it to Friday of Finals week DCI should slot them as a WC corps the next season (by the way, it has been shown time and time again that a corps does not have to do full national touring all season to make it into the 25); b) If a corps is shown to be financially sound, but is not competitive enough to make it to Friday, then they should be slotted by DCI to perform in OC the next season; and c) If a corps, no matter the placement, exists in the financial red they need to be placed on a DCI watch list, and if their finances are not rectified by a certain date they are not allowed to tour in DCI the next season.

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Take a look at the DCI regs on start-up corps. No matter how big or how good they are they have to spend at least one year in OC before they can even apply for WC, then the evaluation process begins which is like having a flashlight shining on your butt for at least another year or two and that's bare minimum. It usually takes a lot longer than that.

DCI certainly does a good job in evaluation start-ups; but the Revo situation showed that there is a real big hole in their year-to-year oversight of existing corps.

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I doubt BDB or SCVC would ever be in contention for the saturday night show simply because as an open class corps their staff designs the show for the open class sheets and not for the world class sheets. therefore, no matter how good they are they would not have the vehicle to compete with the top 12 corps.

Magic 2002 was a completely different animal in that they designed their show for the world class sheets and prepared & competed as if they were a world class corps. They just had to compete in open class that summer per the rules and that is why they maxed out the open class sheets and didn't drop as far once they got on the world class sheets.

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And IMO there needs to be stricter financial and competitive oversight standards set for all of the corps by DCI. This following oversight plan would work, and make the organizational corps stronger, if the people in DCI would just do it: a) If a corps has financial stability and is competitive enough to make it to Friday of Finals week DCI should slot them as a WC corps the next season (by the way, it has been shown time and time again that a corps does not have to do full national touring all season to make it into the 25); b) If a corps is shown to be financially sound, but is not competitive enough to make it to Friday, then they should be slotted by DCI to perform in OC the next season; and c) If a corps, no matter the placement, exists in the financial red they need to be placed on a DCI watch list, and if their finances are not rectified by a certain date they are not allowed to tour in DCI the next season.

a few WC corps of now would be very unhappy because their choice to be in WC acccording to your plan would be taken away. You seem to think alot of OC corps would be moved up but I have no doubt more would be moved down

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a few WC corps of now would be very unhappy because their choice to be in WC acccording to your plan would be taken away. You seem to think alot of OC corps would be moved up but I have no doubt more would be moved down

I do not care one bit if a corps director is happy or not. What I do care about is (in this order): 1) Financial Accountability and Sustainability oversight for all corps by DCI which are under the DCI banner; and 2) Divisional placement within the WC or OC based on quality of performance not corps directors choice (ie the Friday corps at Finals become the next year's WC and the rest are placed in OC). The financial oversight looks out for the best interest of all corps as well as the DCI organization, and the competitive WC/OC divisions based on those corps which make it to Friday looks out for the best interest of the competitive environment.

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I do not care one bit if a corps director is happy or not. What I do care about is (in this order): 1) Financial Accountability and Sustainability oversight for all corps by DCI which are under the DCI banner; and 2) Divisional placement within the WC or OC based on quality of performance not corps directors choice (ie the Friday corps at Finals become the next year's WC and the rest are placed in OC). The financial oversight looks out for the best interest of all corps as well as the DCI organization, and the competitive WC/OC divisions based on those corps which make it to Friday looks out for the best interest of the competitive environment.

everything you are saying is going against everthing you have said in the past......dont expect EVERYONE to be treated with the same benefits or get even piece of the pie..where on earth does that happen. Nooone wants big brother in all of their business. I do think a corps should be watched to make sure that under the DCI umbrella that the members are eating, and the corps able to sustain a tour but other than that thats itIMO. If a corps wants to go up to WC for whatever reason thats their business although they could be welcoming a slaughter as some have BUT its still America and there should be choice , no matter how rediculous a decision may be.

You seem to be very angry and seem like you know some specifics about certain corps. Maybe the argument would make more sense with some examples.

Edited by GUARDLING
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everything you are saying is going against everthing you have said in the past......dont expect EVERYONE to be treated the same or get even piece of the pie..where on earth does that happen. No one wants big brother in all of their business. I do think a corps should be watched to make sure that under the DCI unbrella that the members are eating, and the corps able to sustain a tour but other than that thats it IMO. If a corps wants to go up to WC for whatever reason thats their business although they could be welcoming a slaughter as some have BUT its still America and there should be choice , no matter how rediculous a decision may be.

You seem to be very angry and seem like you know some specifics about certain corps. Maybe the argument would make more sense with some examples.

> everything you are saying is going against everthing you have said in the past

I have maintained all along, in every thread, that financial stability should take top priority, that competitive standards need to be met by corps to be placed within WC or they are moved into OC, and that DCI has the responsibility to oversee those aspects. In fact, I proposed in one of those *Restructuring* threads my idea of the 25 corps who make it to Friday of Finals week being the next year's WC. I also believe that the G7 proposal was an abomination to the collective mission agreement amongst all corps where they took most of the pie for themselves, gave a few other WC some crumbs, and kicked out the OC onto the street. So, there are no contradictions at all with these postings I have placed on DCP.

> If a corps wants to go up to WC for whatever reason that's their business... BUT its still America and there should be choice , no matter how rediculous a decision may be.

Choices are very limited in all, I mean all competitive activities. Can a NCAA Div II school just choose to have their sports teams participate in the NCAA Div I Pac-12? Nope; Can a business person create a football team and just choose to play in the NFL? Nope; Can a person create a race team and just choose to qualify a rookie for the NASCAR Daytona 500? Nope; ad infinitum...

> No one wants big brother in all of their business.

I am not talking *all* business matters as in micro-managing, but in governance and oversight yes an organization must step in when needed. The NCAA steps into the business of their registered teams when needed and rightly so; MLB steps into the business of their registered teams when needed and rightly so; NFL steps into the business of their registered teams; State High School Associations, NASCAR, NBA, ... and so should DCI.

> You seem to be very angry and seem like you know some specifics about certain corps. Maybe the argument would make more sense with some examples.

1) Prime example on Finances: What happened to the kids and parents at Revolution should never have happened; period. DCI should have been monitoring the situation and stepped in stopping their DCI tour before people got financially shafted. This could have easily been accomplished with transparent oversight from DCI similar to what MLB just did with the LA Dodgers. And does this step on any corps rights? Not at all; because none of the corps in DCI were forced to join DCI but did so out of their own free will; and with signing on to the DCI organization they, every corps, agreed to adhere to the DCI mission which maintains it is a fraternal collective. 2) Prime example on Competitiveness: While I do not agree with the G7 in throwing corps out of DCI based on their competitiveness, I do agree that the WC corps should be competitive as WC and the rest should be in OC until they competitively make it into the WC (ie my Friday proposal). Right now the Oregon Crusaders are qualitative enough to be a 22nd place WC corps; Pioneer is not qualitative enough to make it to Friday and actually had some OC corps placing ahead of them, so Oregon Crusaders need to be bumped up to the WC (and yes they are financially sound) and Pioneer needs to become successful in the OC division in 2012 and try to bump back into the WC by making it to Friday Semi-Finals next August.

Edited by Stu
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> everything you are saying is going against everthing you have said in the past

I have maintained all along, in every thread, that financial stability should take top priority, that competitive standards need to be met by corps to be placed within WC or they are moved into OC, and that DCI has the responsibility to oversee those aspects. In fact, I proposed in one of those *Restructuring* threads my idea of the 25 corps who make it to Friday of Finals week being the next year's WC. I also believe that the G7 proposal was an abomination to the collective mission agreement amongst all corps where they took most of the pie for themselves, gave a few other WC some crumbs, and kicked out the OC onto the street. So, there are no contradictions at all with these postings I have placed on DCP.

> If a corps wants to go up to WC for whatever reason that's their business... BUT its still America and there should be choice , no matter how rediculous a decision may be.

Choices are very limited in all, I mean all competitive activities. Can a NCAA Div II school just choose to have their sports teams participate in the NCAA Div I Pac-12? Nope; Can a business person create a football team and just choose to play in the NFL? Nope; Can a person create a race team and just choose to qualify a rookie for the NASCAR Daytona 500? Nope; ad infinitum...

> No one wants big brother in all of their business.

I am not talking *all* business matters as in micro-managing, but in governance and oversight yes an organization must step in when needed. The NCAA steps into the business of their registered teams when needed and rightly so; MLB steps into the business of their registered teams when needed and rightly so; NFL steps into the business of their registered teams; State High School Associations, NASCAR, NBA, ... and so should DCI.

> You seem to be very angry and seem like you know some specifics about certain corps. Maybe the argument would make more sense with some examples.

1) Prime example on Finances: What happened to the kids and parents at Revolution should never have happened; period. DCI should have been monitoring the situation and stepped in stopping their DCI tour before people got financially shafted. This could have easily been accomplished with transparent oversight from DCI similar to what MLB just did with the LA Dodgers. And does this step on any corps rights? Not at all; because none of the corps in DCI were forced to join DCI but did so out of their own free will; and with signing on to the DCI organization they, every corps, agreed to adhere to the DCI mission which maintains it is a fraternal collective. 2) Prime example on Competitiveness: While I do not agree with the G7 in throwing corps out of DCI based on their competitiveness, I do agree that the WC corps should be competitive as WC and the rest should be in OC until they competitively make it into the WC (ie my Friday proposal). Right now the Oregon Crusaders are qualitative enough to be a 22nd place WC corps; Pioneer is not qualitative enough to make it to Friday and actually had some OC corps placing ahead of them, so Oregon Crusaders need to be bumped up to the WC (and yes they are financially sound) and Pioneer needs to become successful in the OC division in 2012 and try to bump back into the WC by making it to Friday Semi-Finals next August.

I agreee with some of what you say BUT do you actuually think there are 25 corps worthy of WC or even 22? I also agree what happened with a certain corps BUT it opnly goes to show ya ..all corps are NOT created equal.

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I agreee with some of what you say BUT do you actuually think there are 25 corps worthy of WC or even 22? I also agree what happened with a certain corps BUT it opnly goes to show ya ..all corps are NOT created equal.

Right now the number for Friday Semi-Finals is 25, so irrespective of my opinions on a 25th placing corps show quality I would call those 25 corps WC for the next season. If DCI made the Friday Semi-Finals number 20 I would call those 20 WC; if DCI made the Semi-Finals number 30 I would call those 30 WC. Whatever number of corps DCI sets to move from Thursday Prelims into the Friday Semi-Finals I would deem WC for the next season.

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