[IntrovertedInsight]

I don't see SCVC or BDB making the jump anytime soon, or at all.

Oregon Crusaders are competitive enough right now to jump WC, but I say it'll probably be a few years until they do so. I have no idea what finances they have, or will I pretend to know, but I think it's smart to take things slow.

Music City has the number of kids, and with a few more years and more experience, they might be ready, but not yet.

Also: I could see Genesis moving up in the near future. They are a small corps, but they perform well. Give them a chance and check them out. They have the old Academy look, and they sound like Div. 2 Academy as well.

[Piper]

I used to play a lot of poker in my younger days and had a buddy who would tell me "look, if you need to borrow some money to get into the game then let me know now before it starts - after that I won't lend you a dime because then I'll be playing against my own money". Same thing with the BD and SCV organizations. Why would they want to compete against themselves?

This post has been edited by Piper: 16 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

[Stu]

Piper, on 16 February 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

I used to play a lot of poker in my younger days and had a buddy who would tell me "look, if you need to borrow some money to get into the game then let me know now before it starts - after that I won't lend you a dime because then I'll be playing against my own money". Same thing with the BD and SCV orginizations. Why would they want to compete against themselves?

But they already do compete against each other on Thursday and Friday of Finals week, so your contention does not hold water.

[Stu]

audiodb, on 16 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

You are wrong. Competitive ability is part of the evaluation. You can have the most fiscally responsible corps on Earth, rolling in money, touring for eight weeks every summer and caring for their kids better than anyone, but if they don't have enough kids or enough talent/experience, they will not be promoted to WC until that changes.

Question for audiodb: If an OC corps has a very sustainable budget each year to support a full tour with a financial cushion to spare, and that corps is wiping the floor with all other OC corps with winning scores in the high nineties each year, would DCI move that corps into the WC or would DCI allow that corps to remain in the OC forever if the corps wanted to stay OC?

[Piper]

Stu, on 16 February 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

But they already do compete against each other on Thursday and Friday of Finals week, so your contention does not hold water.

No argument from this rocking and reclining chair Stu. Having the top OC finishers compete in WC finals is probably the best idea that DCI came up with since Hoppy was still in diapers. It just seems weird.

[Kamarag]

Stu, on 16 February 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Question for audiodb: If an OC corps has a very sustainable budget each year to support a full tour with a financial cushion to spare, and that corps is wiping the floor with all other OC corps with winning scores in the high nineties each year, would DCI move that corps into the WC or would DCI allow that corps to remain in the OC forever if the corps wanted to stay OC?

The World Class evaluation process is long. As in, up to three years long. Additionally, it can only be requested via a lengthy application process. As for competitive success, while that is a part of the evaluation process, it's a very, very small part. I was told that directly by one of the members of the evaluation team when the corps I was teaching went through the process.

[audiodb]

Stu, on 16 February 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Question for audiodb: If an OC corps has a very sustainable budget each year to support a full tour with a financial cushion to spare, and that corps is wiping the floor with all other OC corps with winning scores in the high nineties each year, would DCI move that corps into the WC or would DCI allow that corps to remain in the OC forever if the corps wanted to stay OC?

Hard to say, since there is no precedent similar to the scenario you describe. The only corps I recall ever "wiping the floor" was 2002 Magic, and they diverge from your description in two ways (they didn't want to remain in division II, and the sustainable budget only sustained them for a few years).

In any case, with WC and membership status so closely intertwined, I don't think we will see DCI mandating any corps to do WC against their will. One of the criteria for entry to WC is that the corps wants to move up, and declares that intent by petitioning for promotion.

[Stu]

audiodb, on 16 February 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Hard to say, since there is no precedent similar to the scenario you describe. The only corps I recall ever "wiping the floor" was 2002 Magic, and they diverge from your description in two ways (they didn't want to remain in division II, and the sustainable budget only sustained them for a few years).

In any case, with WC and membership status so closely intertwined, I don't think we will see DCI mandating any corps to do WC against their will. One of the criteria for entry to WC is that the corps wants to move up, and declares that intent by petitioning for promotion.

Just curious; because while there is no precedent, the scenario I proposed is somewhat feasible and not that far-fetched considering the financial and competitive growth of both BDB and SCV Cadets. We could be looking at a future where the top two OC corps are eventually good enough to make it to WC Finals every year yet forever remaining in the OC.

[GUARDLING]

Stu, on 17 February 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Just curious; because while there is no precedent, the scenario I proposed is somewhat feasible and not that far-fetched considering the financial and competitive growth of both BDB and SCV Cadets. We could be looking at a future where the top two OC corps are eventually good enough to make it to WC Finals every year yet forever remaining in the OC.

I think in the case of a feder corps like BDB and SCV those members are constantly moving up to the WC corps....because their quality is always good doesnt mean its the same members every year. If a kid just hung out in the OC corps and didnt improve enough to move up I would think maybe its time for that memeber to go.I would think the existence of a 2nd corps is very different mind set than a corps standing on their own. The mere reason for existence could be very different.

This post has been edited by GUARDLING: 17 February 2012 - 12:49 AM

[Stu]

GUARDLING, on 17 February 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think in the case of a feder corps like BDB and SCV those members are constantly moving up to the WC corps....because their quality is always good doesnt mean its the same members every year. If a kid just hung out in the OC corps and didnt improve enough to move up I would think maybe its time for that memeber to go.I would think the existence of a 2nd corps is very different mind set than a corps standing on their own. The mere reason for existence could be very different.

We are not talking feeder corps in the traditional sense (such as the old Cavalier Cadets, or Regiment Cadets, or the current Colts Cadets, or BDC), but highly competitive corps in their own right. The average age of BDB and SCV Cadets has recently been getting older; there are more and more members who are choosing to age out with BDB and SCV Cadets for any number of reasons; and the high quality of those two corps are certainly on the rise. And they both have the financial backing of their parent organizations. So, do not count them out as potentially dominating the OC year after year after year, and eventually contending for a Saturday spot sometime in the future yet remain in the OC.