[saxfreq1128]

GREENBLUE, on 22 April 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Definitly think the corps' that make the most of body movement are:
The Blue Devils
The Cavaliers
Carolina Crown
The Bluecoats
I would categorize BD/Cavies in style then Crown/Coats together.
BD/Cavies while they both have their grandious moments tend to be more subtle and less of it.
Crown/Coats tend to be more in your face and there's alot more of it, hence some of the criticisms and problems in cleanliness. I'm not gonna lie, "Creep" was one of my favorite musical moments of 2011, but there was way too much body work in that opening segment. I also agree with other posters that at times it was not clean causing distraction to an otherwise beautiful drum corps moment. Sometimes less = more.

110% agreed.I would also say that, more than cleanliness, some corps just have -- to vaguely borrow from my theater geek friends -- a better sense of motive when it comes to these things.

I loved 'Creep,' too, but the body maybe seemed a bit much because I wasn't entirely sure what made the movements urgent, necessary, or useful... Whereas when the Cavs did their 007/spy evasion thing, it had a way of holding the show together thematically. And for all the ways that people hated the 'Happy Days Are Here Again / Get Happy' chairs moment in '09, BD really nailed it when it came to making us understand that the moment was about nostalgia -- about making us remember what it felt like to (literally) kick back before the world collapses around you.

These are all GE considerations, really. Not what you're doing or how difficult it is, but why you're doing it, and what makes these things you're doing in excess (or instead) of marching and playing necessary.

[GREENBLUE]

saxfreq1128, on 23 April 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

110% agreed.I would also say that, more than cleanliness, some corps just have -- to vaguely borrow from my theater geek friends -- a better sense of motive when it comes to these things.I loved 'Creep,' too, but the body maybe seemed a bit much because I wasn't entirely sure what made the movements urgent, necessary, or useful... Whereas when the Cavs did their 007/spy evasion thing, it had a way of holding the show together thematically. And for all the ways that people hated the 'Happy Days Are Here Again / Get Happy' chairs moment in '09, BD really nailed it when it came to making us understand that the moment was about nostalgia -- about making us remember what it felt like to (literally) kick back before the world collapses around you.

These are all GE considerations, really. Not what you're doing or how difficult it is, but why you're doing it, and what makes these things you're doing in excess (or instead) of marching and playing necessary.

another good example (and maybe one of the best)...was Cavies 2006 and MACHINE. The body work made sense and helped to convey the theme. Samurai is a good example as well. I think another more recent show would be Mad World. If you had watched that show evolve from the beginning of the season to their finals product... I think in all these cases the body work completely enhanced, and maybe even made the show.

This post has been edited by GREENBLUE: 23 April 2012 - 02:22 AM

[GeneralTsoChicken]

euphmmx, on 22 April 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

That would be Spirit of Atlanta

I know where he currently teaches. That's not really what the comment entailed.

It means that, wherever he is, there are good things happening.

[shortn'sour]

Perhaps some of the worst and what I call "silly artsy" would be the Glassmen circa 1990-1997.
Some of the Best, '93 Star of Indiana (no brainer) and SCV '99.

[Jeff Ream]

GeneralTsoChicken, on 21 April 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

Whatever corps Jude Boughton is teaching at. He teaches body/dance to non-dancers better than just about anyone. Rep wise, he sometimes bites off a little more than the groups can chew (I.E. 2003 Phantom Regiment), but the stuff he does is top notch. I also like that he educates instead of "rote" teaches body/dance. People in his corps that have learned movement with him are familiar with the nomenclature of what they are doing, so not only does he educate that group, but he opens the door for that education to flow into all the other groups affiliated with every member of every corps he's taught with.

Jude indeed does amazing stuff. Some of his best stuff came with a small HS band in North East PA...Pittston HS

[SopSauceBaus]

corpsband, on 21 April 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Homerocity aside .... Dance is a big of Crown's identity and they do it very well *while playing exposed parts*.

I know this is going to get flamed to hell, but moving and playing is much harder then body movements, so I'm not really impressed that they're doing body movements while playing a ballad.

[corpsband]

SopSauceBaus, on 24 April 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

I know this is going to get flamed to hell, but moving and playing is much harder then body movements, so I'm not really impressed that they're doing body movements while playing a ballad.

No flames (from me at least) but marching and playing is actually much less physically demanding. The lower body is completely isolated from a relaxed and centered upper body. Doing ballet/dance moves is going to stress muscle groups you dont normally use during ordinary marching. Going into and out of the ground while playing might not seem hard -- until you try keeping that effort completely out the sound. Dance -- when done properly -- engages literally every muscle in the body. Playing while doing legit dance is hard.


And we're not even discussing the mental focus required to do all those dance moves properly in addition to maintaing the proper breath support, intonation, and expression in the horn playing. Marching -- you're pretty much on auto-pilot in the lower body.

Finally let's talk about training. You've been "marching" since freshman year in high school. How much dance training did you have?

Of course what many people call "body movement" hardly constitutes dance -- it just consists of some very simple lower body movements and very conventional timing and perhaps a gesture or two. If *that's* what you mean by body, then I'll agree with you.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

I tell you what... I'd rather jazz run a full minute of the show, while playing... than do slow, isolated lower body. Just about everyone I know agrees.

These aren't puny standing in different positions, etc anymore. People are straight up doing passe, envelope, ron de jambe, chasse---point blank elaborate sequences.

[SopSauceBaus]

corpsband, on 24 April 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

No flames (from me at least) but marching and playing is actually much less physically demanding. The lower body is completely isolated from a relaxed and centered upper body. Doing ballet/dance moves is going to stress muscle groups you dont normally use during ordinary marching. Going into and out of the ground while playing might not seem hard -- until you try keeping that effort completely out the sound. Dance -- when done properly -- engages literally every muscle in the body. Playing while doing legit dance is hard.


And we're not even discussing the mental focus required to do all those dance moves properly in addition to maintaing the proper breath support, intonation, and expression in the horn playing. Marching -- you're pretty much on auto-pilot in the lower body.

Finally let's talk about training. You've been "marching" since freshman year in high school. How much dance training did you have?

Of course what many people call "body movement" hardly constitutes dance -- it just consists of some very simple lower body movements and very conventional timing and perhaps a gesture or two. If *that's* what you mean by body, then I'll agree with you.

Yeah, I've performed and taught complex dance rep. Marching at anything about 180 bpm while playing some crazy stuff is leagues harder. Your core should be engaged while marching anyway, same muscle groups. To say "gracefully standing up" [because lets be honest, true ballet in drum corps is going to be almost impossible to achieve] while playing a softer passage is harder just seems asinine to me.

[Tim K]

It's interesting that the posts began looking at the color guards and has now the focus is on the entire corps. If we look at the entire corps and not just the guard, my opinion would change somewhat. I'd still have the same top three: Phantom, Cavies, and Crown, but looking at the whole corps, including the musicians, I think I'd have to give the nod to Cavies. They're nearly always clean and the movements are out of this world, or at least appear to be. Think about the difficult music they perform, the challenging drill, and all the body movements by the horns and drums. Crown would be a close second, but I'm not sure they would have the level of difficulty, though it would be close. I still think that from a guard point of view, Phantom is best, but the horns and drums do not maneuver in the same way, though they do use talented individuals from the horn line as dancers on occasion. Case in point, in last year's "Juliet" a member of the horn line danced with a guard member to "A Time for Us" and I felt it has a wholesome innocence to it as well as budding passion. As I say this, Phantom's marching show does fit its musical book, so it could be argued that the movements of Crown and Cavies would be out of place with Phantom.

As I add these comments, there's one thing I think I see. Most of us are from the larger "pageantry" world (drum corps, winter guard, and yes, even band) and for those of us who go back a bit, we saw whole body movement/dance start an add on by some innovative corps that became the standard. Most of us can probably better evaluate horn lines, drum lines, front ensembles, and maneuvering of equipment better than dance/whole body moves. I wonder how people from the world of dance, gymnastics, or in the case of Cavies former members from Cirque de Soleil, think whole body moves work and which corps is the best?

This post has been edited by Tim K: 24 April 2012 - 09:01 AM