craiga Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This is a good discussion, and it reminds me of a true story. I was on the visual staff of BAC in 1989, when in that winter we had a fairly high profile Blue Devils alum join us for the camp season. At his first camp, he said to me, "My God, you're teaching kids how to march??!!" Seeing my puzzled look, he followed that with "At BD, they walk in the door as superstars...." Granted, this was a long time ago, and the gap between, say Boston and BD is no longer 15 or 16 placements, but I think this DOES relate to the 13th-25th place corps..at least. I was at the Quincy, MA show last summer, and after the Crossmen performed, they all sat around me (20 yd line or so). Two things stood out for me: 1. How polite they all were and 2. How YOUNG they all were. Just an observation..... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifer Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 ... I have heard that for many years the corps that has had the oldest average age has won finals though have no proof or evidence of this. I heard the same. On an update video early in the 2011 season, George Hopkins mentioned that The Cadets' average age was a few months below that of 2010, and that since 2005 (I think that was the year he said) when DCI started recording this information, the corps with the oldest average age was always the champion. I believe Cadets 2011 is the first corps to break that trend since records have been kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiga Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) When was the last time a YOUNG corps won the DCI title? 2000 Cavaliers? 1995 Cavaliers? 1996 Phantom Regiment? Other than those three, seems like everyone else was pretty old. Then again, I'm basing that entirely upon how old they look. 95' cavaliers looks YOUNG, real young. Food for thought: 2000 Boston Crusaders 5th place----average age 18 2001 Boston Crusaders 9th place----average age 20 (programming-programming-programming) Edited May 11, 2012 by craiga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Food for thought: 2000 Boston Crusaders 5th place----average age 18 2001 Boston Crusaders 9th place----average age 20 (programming-programming-programming) Yes, I said on this thread above that show design is important in the end as well. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 While true, Pioneer would place a LOT higher than currently in such a scenario. Conversely, if we took 150 17 year olders with no Corps experience, the Cadevaliers would not finish in the top 3 either. Age is very important in placement ( all things being equal ), but experience is even a greater advantage, imo.Thus, when we put experienced marchers, with the average age higher than other Corps, together with well paid design staffs, we get The Cadevaliers. The Cadevaliers have won 84% of the DCI Titles since 1976 ( 29 out of 35 ) and 90% of all the titles since 1990 ( 19 out of 21 ) And thats no surprise, given this dynamic at work. The average (mean; bar-x) is only half of the information - you also need the variance (s) to have the total picture. Typically this translates into a bell-shaped curve (studentized or similar), but in DCI corps it does not, as the (legal, theoretical) max age is 21, thus all variation is less than 21, so it is some sort of a one-tail distribution (T or otherwise). I suspect that the corps with the greatest variance will probably place the lowest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Be interesting to see how good Cadets2 are this summer in DCA. They are primarily made up of HS students. Excellent point - as I understand it, many DCA corps have a percentage of membership that is is DCI-eligible. It would be interesting to see the age distribution of the top 10 - 15 DCA corps as a comparison to the same number of DCI corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The average (mean; bar-x) is only half of the information - you also need the variance (s) to have the total picture. Typically this translates into a bell-shaped curve (studentized or similar), but in DCI corps it does not, as the (legal, theoretical) max age is 21, thus all variation is less than 21, so it is some sort of a one-tail distribution (T or otherwise). I suspect that the corps with the greatest variance will probably place the lowest With the standard deviation being X, I begin to ask Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Be interesting to see how good Cadets2 are this summer in DCA. They are primarily made up of HS students. Great point. That will put the age α winning to a good test. (Interesting that in the DCA forum, they seem to think that the reverse is true!) And if winning is directly proportional to age, every DCA corps should outscoring DCI corps on DCI sheets. Funny how that doesn't happen. Edited May 11, 2012 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) And if winning is directly proportional to age, every DCA corps should outscoring DCI corps on DCI sheets. Funny how that doesn't happen. This is a funny analogy too, when we try and compare apples to oranges. DCA competitive Corps sometimes have marchers that are 14 yrs. old ( or younger ) marching beside a marcher that is 61 yrs old ( or older ). Whatever applies in DCI can not be adequately applied to DCA. DCI Corps have marchers in World Class Division where the ranges would be under 10 years on average.It is age restricted. DCA Corps have a range in age of close to 50 years.Their class is not age restricted. There is certainly a law of diminishing returns that naturally comes into play as one ages beyond their 30's too. So comparing DCI Corps ages and placement results with DCA Corps ages and placement results would be a silly and absurd exercise, imo. But, silly never stopped us before.... so if so inclined, go for it. Edited May 11, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 So comparing DCI Corps ages and placement results with DCA Corps ages and placement results would be a silly and absurd exercise, imo. Agree. Almost as silly as saying that having the highest average age causes the BD to frequently win. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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