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#1 KeithHall

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:52 AM

...I'd like to see a corps start out slow and throughout the season get better and beat corps until the night of finals they win it all!

I don't believe since the inception of DCI this has happened. I guess it came close with Madison in 1976(?).
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#2 lastknight

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:01 AM

...I'd like to see a corps start out slow and throughout the season get better and beat corps until the night of finals they win it all!

I don't believe since the inception of DCI this has happened. I guess it came close with Madison in 1976(?).



I hear you...but I think the level of competition we've risen to all but makes that impossible. To do that kind of "overtaking" in the course of the season dictates some kind of paradigm shift in the teaching model. Since it seems most groups are maximizing their rehearsal time and productivity, one would have to find a way to put more hours on the field or to eek more value out of each hour. I'm not sure how that happens unless we could somehow change the travel model, and even then can a human body, even in the stellar shape that many of these kids are in, do "more" over the 10 week period of the comp season.

But yeah, who doesn't love a Cinderella story?

#3 stevedb1975

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:05 AM

...I'd like to see a corps start out slow and throughout the season get better and beat corps until the night of finals they win it all!

I don't believe since the inception of DCI this has happened. I guess it came close with Madison in 1976(?).


You would be very.....very.....VERY....VERY.......VERY.....VERY....................................................INCORRECT!!!!!

In 1987, the Garfield Cadets started out below Spirit Of Atlanta (who placed 10th that year) and.......they ended up WINNING. Want to see an example? Here is an early show where Spirit of Atlanta THREE POINTED them.


Sunday June 28, 1987
West Chester PADCEPositionCorpsScore
1Spirit of Atlanta 77.000
2
Garfield Cadets 74.900
3Suncoast Sound 70.300
4Dutch Boy 63.400
5Florida Wave 62.200
6Crossmen 53.600
7Malden Diplomats 47.200
8St. Francis Xavier Sancians 39.800

And then even as late as July 7th, Spirit was still beating them with Suncoast Sound trailing them...


Tuesday July 7, 1987
Orlando FLDCEPositionCorpsScore
1Spirit of Atlanta 80.100
2
Garfield Cadets 79.900
3
Suncoast Sound 76.300
4Florida Wave 65.600
5Crossmen 57.400


And THEN....even once the Cadets DID finally pull ahead of them....only a FEW DAYS BEFORE FINALS...Spirit was STILL trailing the Cadets...



Sunday August 9, 1987
Ankeny IADCIPositionCorpsScore
1Garfield Cadets 91.600
2
Spirit of Atlanta 90.500
3Sky Ryders 84.700
4Dutch Boy 79.500
5Colts 74.800
6Marauders 74.400


And then for the final results...


Saturday August 15, 1987
Madison WIDCI World ChampionshipsSTADIUM: Camp Randall Stadium - University of WisconsinDCIPositionCorpsScore
1Garfield Cadets 97.900
2Santa Clara Vanguard 97.800
3Cavaliers 94.700
4Blue Devils 94.400
5Phantom Regiment 94.300
6Madison Scouts 90.400
7Star of Indiana 90.000
7Velvet Knights 90.000
9Suncoast Sound 88.800
10
Spirit of Atlanta 87.600
11Bluecoats 85.700
12Sky Ryders 81.900


I don't know what you consider "starting out slow"...but to start the seaon in the area of 10th place and then win it all, I'd say that is pretty remarkable. You can go to the following link for more examples.... http://corpsreps.com...orpstype=Junior

Edited by stevedb1975, 14 May 2012 - 10:21 AM.




#4 wackywords

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:30 AM

wasnt this sort of the 2008 regiment story? they were kind of low throughout the season. still in the top 6 of course

#5 Jeff Ream

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:35 AM

...I'd like to see a corps start out slow and throughout the season get better and beat corps until the night of finals they win it all!

I don't believe since the inception of DCI this has happened. I guess it came close with Madison in 1976(?).


85 and 87 cadets both got hot late...I think 2 points down to SCV both years a week or two before finals

Phantom 96 with the tie

SCV 99 with the tie

Phantom 08


some examples of corps catching fire late

Edited by Jeff Ream, 14 May 2012 - 10:37 AM.

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#6 stevedb1975

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:55 AM

85 and 87 cadets both got hot late...I think 2 points down to SCV both years a week or two before finals


Did you miss my post above? Try 2-3 points down from SPIRIT OF ATLANTA in the early to mid season...then only a point above them on August 9th. Beating SCV didn't even look like a discussion. They were not even in the top 6 before finals. Not sure they were even counting on Finals after Spirit (who was 10th) beat up on them in the early season.

Edited by stevedb1975, 14 May 2012 - 10:57 AM.




#7 jjeffeory

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:41 AM

Looks like Spirit started out very strongly and then dropped back at the end of the season to me.

You would be very.....very.....VERY....VERY.......VERY.....VERY....................................................INCORRECT!!!!!

In 1987, the Garfield Cadets started out below Spirit Of Atlanta (who placed 10th that year) and.......they ended up WINNING. Want to see an example? Here is an early show where Spirit of Atlanta THREE POINTED them.


Sunday June 28, 1987
West Chester PADCEPositionCorpsScore
1Spirit of Atlanta 77.000
2
Garfield Cadets 74.900
3Suncoast Sound 70.300
4Dutch Boy 63.400
5Florida Wave 62.200
6Crossmen 53.600
7Malden Diplomats 47.200
8St. Francis Xavier Sancians 39.800

And then even as late as July 7th, Spirit was still beating them with Suncoast Sound trailing them...


Tuesday July 7, 1987
Orlando FLDCEPositionCorpsScore
1Spirit of Atlanta 80.100
2
Garfield Cadets 79.900
3
Suncoast Sound 76.300
4Florida Wave 65.600
5Crossmen 57.400


And THEN....even once the Cadets DID finally pull ahead of them....only a FEW DAYS BEFORE FINALS...Spirit was STILL trailing the Cadets...



Sunday August 9, 1987
Ankeny IADCIPositionCorpsScore
1Garfield Cadets 91.600
2
Spirit of Atlanta 90.500
3Sky Ryders 84.700
4Dutch Boy 79.500
5Colts 74.800
6Marauders 74.400


And then for the final results...


Saturday August 15, 1987
Madison WIDCI World ChampionshipsSTADIUM: Camp Randall Stadium - University of WisconsinDCIPositionCorpsScore
1Garfield Cadets 97.900
2Santa Clara Vanguard 97.800
3Cavaliers 94.700
4Blue Devils 94.400
5Phantom Regiment 94.300
6Madison Scouts 90.400
7Star of Indiana 90.000
7Velvet Knights 90.000
9Suncoast Sound 88.800
10
Spirit of Atlanta 87.600
11Bluecoats 85.700
12Sky Ryders 81.900


I don't know what you consider "starting out slow"...but to start the seaon in the area of 10th place and then win it all, I'd say that is pretty remarkable. You can go to the following link for more examples.... http://corpsreps.com...orpstype=Junior


Jeff


#8 stevedb1975

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:53 AM

Looks like Spirit started out very strongly and then dropped back at the end of the season to me.



Then how do you explain Suncoast being right in there with them also? Granted, Suncoast STARTED weak as well but once they caught some momentum they were right there with Cadets and Spirit. Nah....I say Cadets started slow.



#9 Northern Thunder

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

I don't know what you consider "starting out slow"...but to start the seaon in the area of 10th place and then win it all, I'd say that is pretty remarkable. You can go to the following link for more examples.... http://corpsreps.com...orpstype=Junior



I don't know how you deduced that Garfield was ever 10th place at any time during the 1987 season. The only corps that beat them all year were Spirit and SCV.
By the way, Garfield started out the year beating Spirit 74.0--71.1, and Garfield won 8 of their first 11 shows....not too slow of a start.

Probably a more realistic stance would be that Spirit had their show cleaned to a higher degree early in the year, before sliding down to 10th place by season's end.

Edited by Northern Thunder, 14 May 2012 - 12:09 PM.

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#10 stevedb1975

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:15 PM

I don't know how you deduced that Garfield was ever 10th place at any time during the 1987 season. The only corps that beat them all year were Spirit and SCV.
By the way, Garfield started out the year beating Spirit 74.0--71.1, and Garfield won 8 of their first 11 shows....not too slow of a start.

Probably a more realistic stance would be that Spirit had their show cleaned to a higher degree early in the year, before sliding down to 10th place by season's end.


Though your argument has some valid points, here is how I come to my conclusion. Look at their corpsreps score link. Cadets rarely saw any of the top 6 contenders during the 87 season. It's easy to say that SCV and Spirit were the only corps that beat them when nobody else above Spirit ever (or rarely) saw them. Yet, it's a more logical conclusion to me that when Cadets hardly saw anyone substantial (until late July), for the "to be"10th place corps to have beat them at all would mean for a slow start for the Cadets. And for the record, this was a quite common pattern for the Cadets in the late 80s and early 90s. Crossmen used to beat them in the early 90s too.






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