c mor Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) On a '70's Blue Devil facebook page, someone posted a GE horns tape. I listened to it, then ventured into fromthepressbox to peruse some historical scores. Seeing as how the Mesa, AZ show was last night, I was also curious about back in the day differences. I was struck by the dates and the number of contests. The first listed show was May 25th, and by this time in June, there were over 20 shows listed. Seeing the scores and the names of all these corps.... Weymouth, MA 1 Pembroke Imperials 66.05 2 Beverly Cardinals 61.20 3 Emerald Cadets 60.70 4 Boston Crusaders 56.05 5 New London Surfers 53.75 6 IC Reveries 52.90 7 Golden Rays 34.85 Also on May 25th Fair Lawn, NJ 1 Garfield Cadets 74.40 2 Valley Grenadiers 71.05 3 CMCC Warriors 69.95 4 Ridgemen 59.15 5 Monarchs 59.05 6 Kingston Indians 58.75 7 Black Watch-NJ 45.70 June 1st Bayonne, NJ 1 Muchachos 75.50 2 Garfield Cadets 65.90 3 27th Lancers 64.20 4 Blue Rock 63.50 5 Royal Crusaders 61.40 Then, Madison comes through... June 21st Auburn, NY 1 Muchachos 75.25 2 Madison Scouts 75.20 so close... 3 Garfield Cadets 63.35 4 27th Lancers 63.20 5 Black Knights 59.20 6 Royal Crusaders 52.05 Next day, June 22nd Toronto, Ontario 1 Madison Scouts 76.45 2 Muchachos 74.10 3 DeLaSalle Oaklands 66.90 4 Garfield Cadets 63.45 5 27th Lancers 61.00 6 Black Knights 60.90 7 Toronto Optimists 52.45 8 Princemen 51.05 9 Etobicoke Crusaders 45.40 10 Saint John's Girls 38.05 DCI Championship Ithaca, NY Prelims August 16th Open class had 57 corps, top score 87.75, lowest 22.80. 1 Madison Scouts 87.75 2 Anaheim Kingsmen 86.85 3 Vanguard 86.60 4 Kilties 84.45 5 Troopers 84.40 6 DeLaSalle Oaklands 84.00 7 Muchachos 83.05 8 Phantom Regiment 81.80 9 Cavaliers 81.65 10 Purple Lancers 81.60 11 Blue Devils 80.55 12 Blue Stars 79.40 Look at the changes from prelims to finals: Final August 17th 1 Vanguard 89.50 2 Madison Scouts 88.85 3 Anaheim Kingsmen 88.55 4 Muchachos 86.95 5 Troopers 85.65 6 Kilties 85.25 7 DeLaSalle Oaklands 79.95 8 Cavaliers 79.55 9 Blue Devils 79.15 10 Purple Lancers 77.15 11 Phantom Regiment 76.25 12 Blue Stars 75.70 One really couldn't take anything for granted back then, much higher volatility in changing scores and placements. It must have been exciting for some, and devastating for others.. SCV goes from 3rd to 1st increasing nearly 3 points. Muchachos jumped nearly 4 points. Blue Devils went down in score, but up in placement. Why do you think this happened? Hot shows, cold shows? Politics? Bribes? kidding...sort of. Edited June 20, 2013 by c mor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Thunder Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) Those daily highs and lows made drum corps quite exciting. My files show 49 junior contests prior to June 20 in 1974. And there are no doubt some missing from that total. Edited June 20, 2013 by Northern Thunder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 2 things to consider: 1. Inconsistency in judging and judges. 2. Some corps got hot at the right time and others cooled off a tad. Remember, back then, on any given night or afternoon, just about ANY corps was very capable of beating any other corps out there. Good performances got rewarded and performances that were slightly off took it on the chin. Just like today LOL!!!! Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 2 things to consider: 1. Inconsistency in judging and judges. 2. Some corps got hot at the right time and others cooled off a tad. Remember, back then, on any given night or afternoon, just about ANY corps was very capable of beating any other corps out there. Good performances got rewarded and performances that were slightly off took it on the chin. Just like today LOL!!!! Ray What circuits/judging systems gave these scores? And how many were there in 1974? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 2 things to consider: 1. Inconsistency in judging and judges. 2. Some corps got hot at the right time and others cooled off a tad. Remember, back then, on any given night or afternoon, just about ANY corps was very capable of beating any other corps out there. Good performances got rewarded and performances that were slightly off took it on the chin. Just like today LOL!!!! Ray Sometimes those prelims/finals formats took a toll, too... especially if a corps had to do both shows on the same day... and sometimes with a relatively short turnaround between prelims and finals performances. Rarely did a corps do two great performances in that one day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp1955 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Also for shows you picked out of a hat so Garfield could go on first. If you had a great show you could beat anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tad_MMA Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Remember, the 70s were almost all TICK judging. Part of the issue was WHERE the judge stood. (They didn't have to run, scoot and duck so much.) Some judges were just more rigid than others...one's definition of an interval error was slightly different than another's (look at 1978's Finals recap). This reminds me of the story of the 1983 Garfield Cadets. Their last 10 shows had the same field drum (TICK) judge who was particularly hard on them (they weren't very good). At the most frantic part of the snare feature in "Gospel Sermon," he always positioned himself in front of the pit, as the drumline was so close to the sideline. So, they had a guy in the pit playing those huuuuuuge cymbals just crash crash crash, so the judge couldn't hear the bad line. /> Build-up scoring sees much less dramatic shifting of numbers. It usually takes something monumental to alter scores/placements (like Cadets 2009: their drumline fiasco cost them 2nd place to be sure). As for SCV 1984, I'll start a new thread. Edited June 21, 2013 by Tad_MMA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Those daily highs and lows made drum corps quite exciting. My files show 49 junior contests prior to June 20 in 1974. And there are no doubt some missing from that total. Now see, I find this incredible. Consider the number of corps all working on getting their field shows ready, plus all of the corps volunteers organizing home shows - competitions. Drum corps now is great, but it sure seems we've lost so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Remember, the 70s were almost all TICK judging. Part of the issue was WHERE the judge stood. (They didn't have to run, scoot and duck so much.) Some judges were just more rigid than others...one's definition of an interval error was slightly different than another's (look at 1978's Finals recap). This reminds me of the story of the 1983 Garfield Cadets. Their last 10 shows had the same field drum (TICK) judge who was particularly hard on them (they weren't very good). At the most frantic part of the snare feature in "Gospel Sermon," he always positioned himself in front of the pit, as the drumline was so close to the sideline. So, they had a guy in the pit playing those huuuuuuge cymbals just crash crash crash, so the judge couldn't hear the bad line. /> Build-up scoring sees much less dramatic shifting of numbers. It usually takes something monumental to alter scores/placements (like Cadets 2009: their drumline fiasco cost them 2nd place to be sure). As for SCV 1984, I'll start a new thread. Yes, I was a snare drummer 1971-1978, well aware of judges. There were two drum execution judges, and they would circle around sampling sections, trying not to both be judging the same section at the same time. Seemed like there was always one in front of the snares. They learned your show, knew all the difficult spots, and would keep checking to see if you got it clean yet. I know everyone talks about the subjective part of this form of judging, and tolerances and such, but when you average two execution scores, I would think they would be pretty much accurate, don't you think - canceling outliers and such? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 SATURDAY JUNE 29, 1974 CLEVELAND, OHIO Cleveland Caballeros Show ... SQUIRES, NY 78.10 MARION CADETS, OH 77.90 LAKEVIEW SHORELINERS, NY 56.70 MELLO-DEARS, NY 56.50 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS, ON 50.10 BUCKEYES, OH 46.00 DERRY PATROITS, PA 40.00 MIAMI VALLEY LANCERS, OH 34.80 SUNDAY JULY 7, 1974 ETOBICOKE, ONTARIO CENTENNIAL STADIUM ... Ontario Drum Corps Association Optimists Lancers Show KINSMEN KRESCENDOS 61.00 FLYING DUTCHMEN 56.85 BUCKEYES, OH 52.55 CARDINALS OF PRECIOUS BLOOD 48.95 ROYAL COACHMEN, NY 41.00 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 40.50 OPTIMIST LANCERS 39.50 DERRY PATROITS, PA 34.45 SATURDAY JULY 20, 1974 GUELPH, ONTARIO OPTIMIST INVITATIONAL ... ALUMNI STADIUM Ontario Drum Corps Association Optimist Knights Show Class 'A' DE LA SALLE OAKLANDS 77.90 ROYAL CRUSADERS, PA 69.15 TORONTO OPTIMISTS 67.50 SENECA PRINCEMEN 64.20 ST JOHN'S GIRLS 53.75 Class 'B' KINSMEN KRESCENDOS 64.75 FLYING DUTCHMEN 57.75 CARDINALS OF PRECIOUS BLOOD 53.30 CLEVELAND CABALLEROS, OH 50.80 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 46.45 OPTIMIST LANCERS 39.15 SUNDAY JULY 21, 1974 KITCHENER, ONTARIO GOLDEN TRIANGLE CHAMPIONSHIPS ... CENTENNIAL STADIUM Ontario Drum Corps Association Flying Dutchmens Show KINSMEN KRESCENDOS 64.75 FLYING DUTCHMEN 57.75 SAGINAIRES, MI 48.75 CLEVELAND CABALLEROS, OH 48.55 DUTCH BOY CADETS 46.65 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 45.70 VENTURES 39.25 ROYAL COACHMEN, NY 36.20 FLINT GUARDSMEN, MI 36.05 SATURDAY AUGUST 3, 1974 TOLEDO, OHIO KEY TO THE SEA OPEN ...Waite High School Stadium Prelims: (The corps almost made the finals) SENECA PRINCEMEN, ON 66.45 GLASSMEN, OH 64.65 MARQUIS, WI 64.40 CHARIOTEERS, AL 63.90 WINDJAMMERS, WI 62.50 GAUCHOS, NY 62.15 CADETS OF GREECE, NY 61.20 CRUSADERS OF COUNTY LASALLE, IL 60.75 SACRED HEART CRUSADERS, NJ 59.85 ST JOHN'S GIRLS, ON 56.60 FLYING DUTCHMEN, ON 53.30 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS, ON 49.55 BUCKEYES, OH 49.35 SCARLET KNIGHTS, IL 48.35 POLICE YOUTH CORPS, MO 47.35 SOUTHERN REBELS, LA 46.90 CARDINALS OF PRECIOUS BLOOD, ON 45.05 NEE-HI'S ALL-GIRL, IA 36.95 84TH BUCKTAIL REGIMENT, PA 26.80 PRAESIDIUM, MI 25.30 MIAMI VALLEY LANCERS, OH 21.60 Note: St John's Girls were the last corps to qualify in prelims; the Marquis won the finals. MONDAY AUGUST 5, 1974 BUTLER, PENNSYLVANIA AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL OPEN ...CLASS 'A' & ALL-GIRL PRELIMS SENECA PRINCEMEN, ON 66.25 CAPITOLAIRES (G), WI 65.40 CHARIOTEERS, AL 63.30 CADETS OF GREECE, NY 62.05 MARQUIS, WI 61.60 GAUCHOS, NY 61.40 FLYING DUTCHMEN, ON 55.80 WINDJAMMERS, WI 54.65 CARDINALS OF PRECIOUS BLOOD, ON 52.90 FLORIDIANS, FL 50.70 LEGION VANGUARD, MA 49.65 FIRE-ETTES (G), CT 49.05 TRI-TOWN CADETS, NY 48.65 FITCHBURG KINGSMEN, MA 48.10 MARK TWAIN CADETS, NY 47.95 MELLO-DEARS (G), NY 47.15 ROYAL KNIGHTS, WI 46.40 LAKEVIEW SHORELINERS, NY 45.45 VENTURES (G), ON 45.10 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS, ON 44.85 BELLES OF ST MARY'S (G), WI 43.80 SHARPSBURG CADETS, PA 40.90 BLUEWATER BUCCANEERS, ON 36.55 NEE HI'S (G), IA 35.00 CATHOLIC DAUGHTERS OF AMERICA (G), PA 33.65 ROYAL COACHMEN, NY 32.45 SILVER SABRES, PA 31.00 MIAMI VALLEY LANCERS, OH 28.90 DERRY PATROITS, PA 26.75 84TH BUCKTAIL REGIMENT, PA 25.75 SILVER KNIGHTS, FL 22.15 THURSDAY/FRIDAY AUGUST 8/9, 1974 MARION, OHIO US OPEN ...CLASS 'A' & ALL-GIRL PRELIMS: CAPITOLAIRES (G), WI 67.65 GLASSMEN, OH 65.90 MARQUIS, WI 65.40 BELVEDERES, PA 64.75 CHARIOTEERS, AL 64.55 CADETS OF GREECE, NY 62.25 GAUCHOS, NY 60.10 MARK TWAIN CADETS, NY 56.50 FIRE-ETTES (G), CT 56.00 WINDJAMMERS, WI 55.20 ST JOHN'S GIRLS, ON 55.00 FLORIDIANS, FL 53.00 CLEVELAND CABALLAROS, OH 52.95 FLYING DUTCHMEN, ON 51.35 FITCHBURG KINGSMEN, MA 51.30 TRI-TOWN CADETS, NY 50.65 LEGION VANGUARD,MA 50.60 LAKEVIEW SHORELINERS, NY 49.95 VENTURES (G), ON 48.45 ALPINE GIRLS (G), NY 48.10 NEE HI'S (G), IA 46.90 ROYAL KNIGHTS, WI 45.70 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS, ON 44.90 BLUEWATER BUCCANEERS, ON 44.05 BUCCANEERS, KY 41.00 BELLES OF ST MARY'S (G), WI 40.80 SHARPSBURG CADETS, PA 40.20 ROYAL COACHMEN, NY 37.50 CATHOLIC DAUGHTERS OF AMERICA, (G), PA 37.00 ST CLAIR SHORES VANGUARD, MI 36.95 CANTON POLICE BLUECOATS, OH 34.60 SIMPLEX MINUTEMEN, MA 34.45 84TH BUCKTAIL REGIMENT, PA 33.95 MIAMI VALLEY LANCERS, OH 30.00 SILVER SABRES, PA 27.75 SILVER KNIGHTS, FL 23.10 SATURDAY AUGUST 24, 1974 SCARBOROUGH, ONTARIO WESTERN ONTARIO JR 'B' CHAMPIONSHIPS Birchmount Stadium Cardinals of Precious Blood Show FLYING DUTCHMEN 65.40 KINSMEN KRESCENDOS 62.60 CARDINALS OF PRECIOUS BLOOD 53.25 DUTCH BOY CADETS 46.55 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 44.65 VENTURES 44.40 OPTIMIST LANCERS 38.10 SATURDAY AUGUST 31, 1974 CAMBRIDGE, ONTARIO AN EVENING WITH THE CORPS ...Dickson Park St Andrews Show ST JOHN'S GIRLS 66.05 FLYING DUTCHMEN 65.70 DUTCH BOY CADETS 57.95 VENTURES 56.25 OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 52.45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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