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In regards to recruiting, does it really matter if a corps places 2nd, 3rd, 4th. or even 6th for the next year's recruiting?

I can see that winning DCI helps bring in the top talent. I was wondering about the still elite, but non-winning corps too. What point or placement does it take to bring in the oldest and most talented members?

...or is there something else such as show type or designers that are more important in bringing in the more accomplished people?

In my mind, it was a blend of all of the above with placement at the bottom of the list. I was more concerned with brass program and visual design than over corps placement.

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In regards to recruiting, does it really matter if a corps places 2nd, 3rd, 4th. or even 6th for the next year's recruiting?

I can see that winning DCI helps bring in the top talent. I was wondering about the still elite, but non-winning corps too. What point or placement does it take to bring in the oldest and most talented members?

...or is there something else such as show type or designers that are more important in bringing in the more accomplished people?

In my mind, it was a blend of all of the above with placement at the bottom of the list. I was more concerned with brass program and visual design than over corps placement.

I think there are many factors. I have also experienced the opposite of what some might think..Being #1 attracts the best and also intimidates many from even trying. Placement as far as a finalist does attract many as so does design types. Many it's to be in a certain guard or a certain brass or percussion line. Often it is following a staff members from HS or another corps

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I think staff definitely draws.

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Think it's interesting that back in my day several of my corpmates left Crown to go march Cadets, Blue Devils, SCV and even Madison. Interestingly we did have 2 members in the corps in 99 that had won a championship with Cadets the year prior, but one was picked up late as a fill-in.

Flashforward 15 years and you see several people who marched in those corps come to march with Crown. I think there are "go-to" corps for several kids. I don't think marching Cavaliers is quite the dream it was 10 years ago for many HS boys. Similar to when I was in HS, I would have given anything to march Madison Scouts, but they aren't the bee knees that they were in the mid-90's.

BD, Cadets will always draw top talent and Phantom and SCV are two corps that have earned enough respect over the years that I feel they will never be short on talent.

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To answer the question first: No.

Placing 1st only matters to ring chasers, and there are only a small number of them. Most young people that march drum corps would be thrilled with being in a top 5 or top 6 drum corps.

In terms of getting talent in order to stay at the top level, I think it depends on any number of factors.

  1. Staff (reputation and quality of work)
  2. Repertoire and Style
  3. Location
  4. Cost
  5. How well a corps travels/amenities

Not every instructional staff is created equal. Some work better together, have more years experience, etc. A good case-in-point is Blue Devils. During the late 80s and early 90s (1987-1993) they had a string of 7 years with no title. That's almost blasphemy for them. Yet, to my ears, their brass sounded spectacular every year, with ties for high brass in 91 and 93. There was no shortage of talent in that corps. Their guard was great and even their percussion lines were not lacking talent (even though they were the weaker section in those days). In short, they were plenty capable.

Example: if I were a hot-shot trumpeter in the late 80s and through most of the 90s, and if I had super high range and/or excellent solo chops and loved jazz and popular music, well I'd march one of two places--Madison or BD. Listen to Madison's brass lines of the 90s. Think they lacked any talent? In this scenario I think the talent (especially in brass) was coming on board because of No #1 and #2 (Staff and Repertoire/Style). I doubt placement had much to do with it.

The Carolina Crown example used earlier is an excellent one. Not that many years ago they might have lost members to other corps when or if a person wanted to march with a top 5. But a number of things have changed. Staff is the biggest. The reputation of the corps, show style and the challenges in that style, and the corps' financial health also play a factor. If you were a good musician in the South, why travel north or midwest to march when Crown offers all the amenities, staff, challenge, and performance opportunities you could want?

The Bluecoats have not won a DCI Championship yet, but there is no shortage of talent in that corps, and there hasn't been for a LONG time. Of course, Blooo has always had talented players, even dating back to the 70s and 80s. But no doubt the depth of talent from 1st to 3rd parts in every section has been much stronger in the last 10 to 12 years. Why travel to Canton to march? Staff, support, great amenities (the corps travels and eats as well or better than anyone in the business), or maybe it's show design/style or location. Canton has definitely had some shake-ups in staff, but some of the key people (like Doug Thrower) have remained. Canton is easy to travel to (excellent airport with Cleveland and Columbus close by). The corps is well managed and has money and donors. So I'd say with Canton, even before the corps elevated to being a potential top 5 contender each year, that staff, style, and amenities was probably at the core.

Phantom Regiment is another example. Even when the corps is having a down year (like this year, and I'm not sure how "down" this year is) you almost always have excellent musicians in that corps. Why? Repertoire/Style may be the biggest reason. Some young people want nothing more than to put on that uniform and play classical music.

One thing that I didn't mention at the top is DEVELOPMENT OF THE MARCHING MEMBER. If you truly want to become a destination for quality talent, and if you want to compete well, you need a staff that can develop the corps musicians, marchers, twirlers, dancers, etc. Your staff may have to prove this before they become a "name." Michael Klesch mentioned this in an interview earlier this season (Crown's camp show webcast). Urban legend has it that the Cadets staff took mostly 16 and 17 year old high school kids in 1989 and took 5th place with a stunning Les Mis program. I've seen a number of years where Cadets have walked on the field with a much more "youthful" corps (shall we say) and proceeded to kick the snot out of the older corps (except for BD in most cases). That's teaching, training, and methodology at work.

If becoming a top 5 corps is a priority (or remaining a top 5 corps), then there will be times when you must "build" your quality. You may not always have a well-known staff, or reputation, or traditions of other top 5 units, therefore you must build it and force your way into the crowd. That's what Carolina Crown has done. That's what Bluecoats have done.

Edited by jwillis35
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Very we'll said! I once mentioned Bloo in the same basic way about the Oregon Crusaders. A new corps to WC and having to give reasons for out of staters to come audition.

Before the Cavaliers won a DCI title (or placed higher then 6th), the ratio of local to out of the area was much different then it is now a days.

I believe that success, brings in more talent. All of those factors lends itself to success. I also believe that the instructional staff is key. It takes the right personalities staff wise to not only reach out to the members, it take their love and passion of drum corps to be obvious to the kids. It's not like the old days where you had to teach kids how to play a brass instrument.

I guess that the top corps only have so many spots and as the kids who do not make (for ex.) BD, May or may not go somewhere else. If all you want is a ring, there are not many options. I was not like that so I don't really get it. It also is important to have good support staff as well. when not on the field, it's the rest of the staff that makes a difference as well. This is a great topic, thanks for starting it.

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In terms of getting talent in order to stay at the top level, I think it depends on any number of factors.

  1. Staff (reputation and quality of work)
  2. Repertoire and Style
  3. Location
  4. Cost
  5. How well a corps travels/amenities

Well written ... so wish there was a Baedeker outlining the above and other traits for all World Class corps.

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To answer the question first: No.

Placing 1st only matters to ring chasers, and there are only a small number of them. Most young people that march drum corps would be thrilled with being in a top 5 or top 6 drum corps.

In terms of getting talent in order to stay at the top level, I think it depends on any number of factors.

  1. Staff (reputation and quality of work)
  2. Repertoire and Style
  3. Location
  4. Cost
  5. How well a corps travels/amenities

Not every instructional staff is created equal. Some work better together, have more years experience, etc. A good case-in-point is Blue Devils. During the late 80s and early 90s (1987-1993) they had a string of 7 years with no title. That's almost blasphemy for them. Yet, to my ears, their brass sounded spectacular every year, with ties for high brass in 91 and 93. There was no shortage of talent in that corps. Their guard was great and even their percussion lines were not lacking talent (even though they were the weaker section in those days). In short, they were plenty capable.

Example: if I were a hot-shot trumpeter in the late 80s and through most of the 90s, and if I had super high range and/or excellent solo chops and loved jazz and popular music, well I'd march one of two places--Madison or BD. Listen to Madison's brass lines of the 90s. Think they lacked any talent? In this scenario I think the talent (especially in brass) was coming on board because of No #1 and #2 (Staff and Repertoire/Style). I doubt placement had much to do with it.

The Carolina Crown example used earlier is an excellent one. Not that many years ago they might have lost members to other corps when or if a person wanted to march with a top 5. But a number of things have changed. Staff is the biggest. The reputation of the corps, show style and the challenges in that style, and the corps' financial health also play a factor. If you were a good musician in the South, why travel north or midwest to march when Crown offers all the amenities, staff, challenge, and performance opportunities you could want?

The Bluecoats have not won a DCI Championship yet, but there is no shortage of talent in that corps, and there hasn't been for a LONG time. Of course, Blooo has always had talented players, even dating back to the 70s and 80s. But no doubt the depth of talent from 1st to 3rd parts in every section has been much stronger in the last 10 to 12 years. Why travel to Canton to march? Staff, support, great amenities (the corps travels and eats as well or better than anyone in the business), or maybe it's show design/style or location. Canton has definitely had some shake-ups in staff, but some of the key people (like Doug Thrower) have remained. Canton is easy to travel to (excellent airport with Cleveland and Columbus close by). The corps is well managed and has money and donors. So I'd say with Canton, even before the corps elevated to being a potential top 5 contender each year, that staff, style, and amenities was probably at the core.

Phantom Regiment is another example. Even when the corps is having a down year (like this year, and I'm not sure how "down" this year is) you almost always have excellent musicians in that corps. Why? Repertoire/Style may be the biggest reason. Some young people want nothing more than to put on that uniform and play classical music.

One thing that I didn't mention at the top is DEVELOPMENT OF THE MARCHING MEMBER. If you truly want to become a destination for quality talent, and if you want to compete well, you need a staff that can develop the corps musicians, marchers, twirlers, dancers, etc. Your staff may have to prove this before they become a "name." Michael Klesch mentioned this in an interview earlier this season (Crown's camp show webcast). Urban legend has it that the Cadets staff took mostly 16 and 17 year old high school kids in 1989 and took 5th place with a stunning Les Mis program. I've seen a number of years where Cadets have walked on the field with a much more "youthful" corps (shall we say) and proceeded to kick the snot out of the older corps (except for BD in most cases). That's teaching, training, and methodology at work.

If becoming a top 5 corps is a priority (or remaining a top 5 corps), then there will be times when you must "build" your quality. You may not always have a well-known staff, or reputation, or traditions of other top 5 units, therefore you must build it and force your way into the crowd

That's what Carolina Crown has done. That's what Bluecoats have done.

Great post. That's what I was pretty much hoping to see, but didn't want it to come from me.

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