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Valve Rotor Baritones - Need Advice


Skylinersop16

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I am in a position to acquire a bunch of valve rotor baritones for my mini corps project but the issue is, I have never played a piston rotor horn and do not know what notes they are capable of (or not rather) and how to get the pitches. If anyone is fluent with this type of instrument and can give me a basic walkthrough so I can see if I can write horn charts around the missing notes, I would appreciate it.

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All right- I'll speak in Treble Clef. I did play one in period for 4 seasons and own one I play on for fun now and again.

Assuming you know the piston is first valve and the rotor is second valve but including that for completeness for anyone curious that doesn't know.

What notes can't it play?

Anything that requires a 3rd valve to play it normally with one exception- the A Flat the first Leger Line above the staff, which can be played with first valve, though you really need to listen and adjust it. For that matter, a lot of notes on those horns require good listening skills.

The instruments also have a very snarly character.

I'd also advise trying to stay 3rd space A/ second line G and higher when writing. G horns can play lower notes of course but they tend to be very fat, spread, and well, flatulent down low and the sound gets real muddy. They seem happiest from third space C and higher.

From experience, a good Bari player can take one up to the two lines above the staff C up to a three line E if they're in shape. The other instruments of the family, you may have to experiment with your performers and find out where they can land the high ones when needed.

Write your quicker passages keeping in mind the shift between left and right hands, they can be done if you practice and work the skills, but it's nice to keep the 16th notes in one hand or the other.

I think you'll find out why the old charts using these horns tended to be a bit higher in pitch and a bit rortier after playing the instruments- they're just designed that way.

Enjoy, and have fun. You can do a lot if you practice and listen to what comes out the bell.

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Since I'm not a musician I can only add something on the technical side (OK I work with computers). First batch of P/R Baris Westshoremen bought had plastic rotor linkages. Probably not the correct term but its the small curved piece that connects the rotor lever to the rotor itself. Had a few horns where the linkage broke either to the rotor jamming or someone mashing the crap out of the lever when playing. (Never had that problem so think it was the second thing.) Had someone who worked in a metal shop and they pre-fabbed some linkages to replace any that broke. Also have a P/R Bari and the soft plastic (rubber?) stops on the rotor have gotten hard thru age. Still plays well but if I'm not careful I can hear the clanking if I hit the rotor lever too hard.

And yeah... first tow guys to respond marched together on the same horns.... Olds Duratone which are beautiful...

PS - Oh yeah, bit easy to overblow if not careful....

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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So if I'm reading this right, the rotor is basically 2nd valve meaning (in treble) first space f would be just piston, g would be open and second space a would be piston and rotor engaged?

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Not getting into treble/bass clef and I always got corn-fused....

Have played P/R, 2v and 3v all in key of G. As I told our horn instructor when I got my first 3 valve "Ok.. 1st value is right thumb, 2nd valve is left thumb.... what the Hades thumb is 3rd valve?" His response was "You're old if you know that". Mine back was "And you know what I'm talking about"

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So if I'm reading this right, the rotor is basically 2nd valve meaning (in treble) first space f would be just piston, g would be open and second space a would be piston and rotor engaged?

You got it, the piston is basically 1st valve, the rotor 2nd valve, and you can throw anything that requires a 3rd valve out the window lol

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You all are assuming these are G-F baritones. If they are not Olds instruments, they could be G-D bugles with fewer notes available in the lower compass.

I would not recommend using anything except Ultratone/Duratone models in a contemporary application.

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They are 99% Getzen and a couple Slingerlands

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I think I am going to have to just sit down with a tuner and write out a fingering chart.

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