Pete Freedman Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Actually it really isnt that hard. All one has to do is let go of the way we used to think the guard caption was judged. First perfect scores in ANY caption, horns , drums, etc etc does not mean perfect, so a guard can also have a drop and still earn a perfect score. All a perfect score mean is that a judge ran out of numbers and a particular corps was just the best compared to the others. The level of corps today from bottom to top is very high so high scores are driven from the bottom up. The bottom pushes the high scores at the top. Now and this is a hard one for some. Higher tosses, harder work doesn't necessarily mean better. Toss after toss after toss after toss doesn't necessarily mean effective . There are many more creative ways to create effect today and this becomes a part of the elements. I can go on and on but I think you get the picture. Is it subjective? Sure, but so is the whole thing visually, musically guard, etc etc, Otherwise were back to the tic system and that ( although it wasn't supposed to be ) was even worse and even more subjective. Thanks for the description. I would think judges might be evaluating things like how identical their movements are to each other (when they are trying to be identical), how expressive they are (how much the mood or attitude pops off the guard so to speak, or how much they own the character), speed of movement, stamina, certain known moves, as well as standard equipment like speed, height, number of spins, etc. It's funny how if you're in a brass section, say, you really have know idea how the people standing right over there do what they do. That includes the drums! Anyway the Phantomettes are always the "Ginger Rogers guard" as far as I'm concerned. Or maybe Vivien Leigh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Thanks for the description. I would think judges might be evaluating things like how identical their movements are to each other (when they are trying to be identical), how expressive they are (how much the mood or attitude pops off the guard so to speak, or how much they own the character), speed of movement, stamina, certain known moves, as well as standard equipment like speed, height, number of spins, etc. It's funny how if you're in a brass section, say, you really have know idea how the people standing right over there do what they do. That includes the drums! Anyway the Phantomettes are always the "Ginger Rogers guard" as far as I'm concerned. Or maybe Vivien Leigh. your'e pretty much spot on with this. It can be very complex and most often the obvious is not what becomes effective ( although ) it can in it's simplicity but also how it all ties together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 At finals this year, Phantom's guard placed 9th with a score of 17.8 At finals in 2010, Phantom's guard placed 9th with a score of 17.7 I'm not a guard expert. I watch the guard, look for consistency in tosses, try to decipher difficulty and what not, but in the end, I'm just a fan of the caption. Phantom's 2010 show was pretty as well as quite moving. Much more than 2014. Yet from a guard perspective, 2014 just seemed so much better. i didn't wince during tosses "hoping" they would catch them, or during flag spins hoping they would be together. This year the equipment was well handled, the guard sold the theme quite well, flags, uniforms and what not all contributed so well to the show. Yeah - they got 9th this year, but the guard's performance spoke much greater volumes than that placement. Like I said, I'm not a guard expert....but I'm still trying to figure it out. why didn't they score higher last season?: the content and design of the guard books ahead of them were better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 I will post a better response after getting some rest and reflection. I had the honor of being with Madison for the 3 am TV preparation and for the actual parade event. I don't disagree with much of what Pete Freedman or Guardling have written. I think however there is more to the equation which needs to be further explicated and communicated particularly for rule book interpretation and consistency. Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I will post a better response after getting some rest and reflection. I had the honor of being with Madison for the 3 am TV preparation and for the actual parade event. I don't disagree with much of what Pete Freedman or Guardling have written. I think however there is more to the equation which needs to be further explicated and communicated particularly for rule book interpretation and consistency. Later. Do you mean more that needs to be explained to us here, or more that needs to be clarified and standardized within the caption itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) with in this alone will generate discussion here I have no doubt. :-) To give the members of Regiment their due respect and regard, my response and posts #61 and following should be moved to its own thread and this thread's discussion returned to discussing Regiment '15 not the foibles of the caption as is. Edited November 28, 2014 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I'll be honest (like when am I not?)...I'm seriously worried for the corps this year. Lots of major staff turnover. I just wish they could get things together. Brass - looks good from here Percussion - looks good from here Guard - looks good from here Visual - kind of an unknown although some aren't changed. Didn't think Visual was strong last year although there were some nice moments. Maybe the changes are for the better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Brass - looks good from here Percussion - looks good from here Guard - looks good from here Visual - kind of an unknown although some aren't changed. Didn't think Visual was strong last year although there were some nice moments. Maybe the changes are for the better? Brass: same boring arranger. brass staff is averaging 6/7th in brass since '11. Percussion: not any better placing last year than the last several. lost the FE arranger and the MCM kids. Guard: almost completely new staff. Viz: new designer replacing one of the better known designers in dci. very young caption head replaced a long time seasoned veteran. viz scores dropped from '13. Back to the guard: the past several years the guard has been accused of "resting on pretty" and not having a difficult book. Staff are on podcasts stating how other dci guard staffs thought the phantomettes work was easy and they were compared to "a high school guard." (See Michael James's Marching Roundtable interview). Compared with BD's guard, you can see the vast difference in range, expression, content, and excellence. It's not that PR is horrible, they're just not near as excellent as others placing higher (see even Blue Stars guard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Brass: same boring arranger. brass staff is averaging 6/7th in brass since '11. Percussion: not any better placing last year than the last several. lost the FE arranger and the MCM kids. Guard: almost completely new staff. Viz: new designer replacing one of the better known designers in dci. very young caption head replaced a long time seasoned veteran. viz scores dropped from '13. Back to the guard: the past several years the guard has been accused of "resting on pretty" and not having a difficult book. Staff are on podcasts stating how other dci guard staffs thought the phantomettes work was easy and they were compared to "a high school guard." (See Michael James's Marching Roundtable interview). Compared with BD's guard, you can see the vast difference in range, expression, content, and excellence. It's not that PR is horrible, they're just not near as excellent as others placing higher (see even Blue Stars guard). Yet their brass sounded so much better than cavies and on par with SCV in my opinion. I know both scored higher in brass but the sound of the ensemble in the final recording matters to me a lot more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) Yet their brass sounded so much better than cavies and on par with SCV in my opinion. I know both scored higher in brass but the sound of the ensemble in the final recording matters to me a lot moreOnly -.1 to Cavies in brass so it came down to sampling...basically no difference. The Jupiter high brass quality isn't helping. According to the other judges, it came down to the writing/blend. Edited November 29, 2014 by chaos001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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