garfield Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Not interested whether they (GZ) or some other corps should have been credited with a new style of drill. But, during that year, did any other corps make drill changes to emulate what Garfield was doing, and if done, did it improve their placements? I've heard the arguments about the year that drill changed and, from my perspective, it was '82. As I posted elsewhere, '82 Garfield was the foundation of the three-pete. I know Zingali had a few years of experience at other, venerable corps but, IMO, he didn't hit his moment until '83 Cadets. All the stars lined up for that year. I don't think any other corps made changes throughout the year to emulate what Garfield was doing because, from what I've seen of the mind of Zingali, there was no one else who thought on the same plane with him that year. It didn't take long to spread - by '86 you could see what "curvilinear" was doing to design - but '83, '84, '85, and then '87, Garfield owned drill design. IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I can't recall if any corps even tried to emulate Garfield back then. I remember many corps using asymmetrical drill but that wasn't a Garfield led change as much as a 27th/Vanguard led change. In fact, back then I don't remember corps doing a lot of major drill changes at all - at least not the way they do now. I don't even know if there is a word to describe Garfield's drill back then. Asymmetrical is perhaps technically correct, but at the same time some of it looked like it was controlled by the wind or the waves. A correct term escapes me. I always thought of it and described it as amoeba type drill; very organic and natural. This is opposed to the geometric and kaleidoscopic drill of Cavalier's drill. That has been my take. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I always thought of it and described it as amoeba type drill; very organic and natural. This is opposed to the geometric and kaleidoscopic drill of Cavalier's drill. That has been my take. As I understand it, "Curvilinear" was Zingali's own term to describe what he saw in his head. Edited October 30, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I've heard the arguments about the year that drill changed and, from my perspective, it was '82. As I posted elsewhere, '82 Garfield was the foundation of the three-pete. I know Zingali had a few years of experience at other, venerable corps but, IMO, he didn't hit his moment until '83 Cadets. All the stars lined up for that year. I don't think any other corps made changes throughout the year to emulate what Garfield was doing because, from what I've seen of the mind of Zingali, there was no one else who thought on the same plane with him that year. It didn't take long to spread - by '86 you could see what "curvilinear" was doing to design - but '83, '84, '85, and then '87, Garfield owned drill design. IMO. Agreed. I've always referred to it as "flex" drill. You take a string and drop it on a piece of drill paper and then flex it around smoothly from shape to shape - the transition becomes drill Of course now that's done on a computer. Back then they literally used a length of string which is amazing to think about... 27th & SCV previewed a bit of what Cadets offered up in the mid 80s - Cadets just realized it and then took it from 82-87 to a whole different level. It wasn't until Cavaliers late 80's geometric drills that anyone else sort of took the style and remade it in their own way... It was tough to instantly emulate as writers didn't know how to write it and staff didn't know how to effectively teach it and then cleaning it was another real issue. I also felt the rehearsal strategy Cadets dropped in in 82-85 (that they are still honing today) is another way the pushed the activity and dominated for a while. Now Crown, BD, Coats etc all use the instructional methods and scheduling Cadets pushed in that era. For several years Cadets could teach more and clean more faster than their competitors. Star was probably the first corps other than Cadets which rehearsed as effectively - and that is most likely due to shared staff. Today all the top corps use similar rehearsal methods which has helped level the top six or so playing field imo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Agreed they really started it in 82, going back further, there are hints in 27 But no one tried to copy it in 83, the general consensus at the time was Cadets were crazy and there was no way they could clean their drill. Plus no one had time to change their show by the time they saw Cadets that year - videos were rare and corps were more regional in the front half of the season. BD and SCV were really the main players and I don’t think Cadets met them until August. Cadets were not considered a contender. In 82, the were 5th in prelims with a push to 3rd for finals which I think was their highest placement until then. Many thought they’d fade at the end of 83 and get passed by cleaner corps. The buildup system was still new, most shows were still being written for ticks and Cadets took full advantage of the new judging system Edited October 30, 2014 by cowtown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I've heard the arguments about the year that drill changed and, from my perspective, it was '82. As I posted elsewhere, '82 Garfield was the foundation of the three-pete. I know Zingali had a few years of experience at other, venerable corps but, IMO, he didn't hit his moment until '83 Cadets. All the stars lined up for that year. I don't think any other corps made changes throughout the year to emulate what Garfield was doing because, from what I've seen of the mind of Zingali, there was no one else who thought on the same plane with him that year. It didn't take long to spread - by '86 you could see what "curvilinear" was doing to design - but '83, '84, '85, and then '87, Garfield owned drill design. IMO. my thughts exactly. I remember seeing it in 82 and thinking "wow this is new!. by 83, they learned what worked from 82, picked an amazing show that flowed a lot better than 82, and off they went. I don't truly feel the rest of DCi caught up til about 1988. But you see, first the Cadets zigged, so by 88 when everyone else zigged...they zagged. And back then, only Brubaker came close to catching up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Agreed they really started it in 82, going back further, there are hints in 27 But no one tried to copy it in 83, the general consensus at the time was Cadets were crazy and there was no way they could clean their drill. Plus no one had time to change their show by the time they saw Cadets that year - videos were rare and corps were more regional in the front half of the season. BD and SCV were really the main players and I don’t think Cadets met them until August. Cadets were not considered a contender. In 82, the were 5th in prelims with a push to 3rd for finals which I think was their highest placement until then. Many thought they’d fade at the end of 83 and get passed by cleaner corps. The buildup system was still new, most shows were still being written for ticks and Cadets took full advantage of the new judging system build up actually started in 84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 well it's been a few years...but yeah, no one thought they'd clean it enough to win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Agreed. I've always referred to it as "flex" drill. You take a string and drop it on a piece of drill paper and then flex it around smoothly from shape to shape - the transition becomes drill Of course now that's done on a computer. Back then they literally used a length of string which is amazing to think about... 27th & SCV previewed a bit of what Cadets offered up in the mid 80s - Cadets just realized it and then took it from 82-87 to a whole different level. It wasn't until Cavaliers late 80's geometric drills that anyone else sort of took the style and remade it in their own way... It was tough to instantly emulate as writers didn't know how to write it and staff didn't know how to effectively teach it and then cleaning it was another real issue. I also felt the rehearsal strategy Cadets dropped in in 82-85 (that they are still honing today) is another way the pushed the activity and dominated for a while. Now Crown, BD, Coats etc all use the instructional methods and scheduling Cadets pushed in that era. For several years Cadets could teach more and clean more faster than their competitors. Star was probably the first corps other than Cadets which rehearsed as effectively - and that is most likely due to shared staff. Today all the top corps use similar rehearsal methods which has helped level the top six or so playing field imo Can you elaborate a bit on what Cadets did rehearsal-wise that was different than what others were doing at the time? I'm interested in hearing how they pushed that envelope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agogobell28 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Yeah, Brubaker was the only one who even came close to Zingali's originality, and he didn't even try to imitate Zingali. He just went his own way, with those triangles and the snake moves and the geometric stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.