DCA and DCI. Contrasts? Comparisons? etc.... blah blah blah.

[C.Holland]

Ok ladies n gents,

we're a few weeks out from Madison's Corps of Brothers (skinny scouts, plus fat old scouts) leading the fat, bearded, coca-cola influenced guy in the sleigh down 34th, and that also means we are only a few weeks out from everyone's open houses.

Some are the week before Turkey-giving, while others follow the standard procedure of hosting theirs on the weekend that all turkeys in the stores become half priced. (almost as awesome as the half priced candy day after halloween)

So here's some food for thought while you people out there in cyberwebs drink your morning coffee.

When I toured in Jr corps (division didn't matter) we knew little of the "all age" corps. In fact I only knew of Govies, Kilties, and MN Brass as they participated in DCM shows against us. I remember standing in line for retreat while the Kilties farted off the beers they consumed post show. But when I traveled to east coast shows, or out west, i never saw SR corps perform at the shows, and subsequently many of those JR corps members had no idea that another version of their activity existed. Feels like the Drum Corps MATRIX... where's Keanu WHOA!

And this season I introduced myself to SR/AllAge corps. Where i attended all the shows by myself, and talked with attendees in their corps jackets or BS'd it up with people in line for snacks or watching warmups. Many of those people I talked with had no idea JR corps still existed. Now I feel like Drum Corps Morpheus is going to sit down next to me while I type this and offer me my choice of a Red, or a Blue pill.

I had one attendee at the CT show, who noticed my Scouts jacket and made a comment about they were awesome at shows back in the day. (when Fred Flintstone chiseled tics into stone blocks) Did they still exist? Which threw me back a little. So I talked with him for a bit about JR corps and its evolution, which he promptly blew off stating that wasn't drum corps, and then he had a small rant about what many of the groups were doing now (meaning the DCA corps performing that night) weren't real drum corps anymore.

I then attended DCA championships, and again chatted it up with some people at the mini corps competition, and again, they had very little knowledge of DCI as it is now, many had little knowledge of JR corps in general. Again, many stating that drum corps just isnt drum corps anymore.

So this prompts me to write this lengthy conversation starter... what was drum corps when you marched? DCI, DCA... American Legion... other? And why is there such a big divide in attendees between DCI and DCA? Both of which have similar themes, design innovation, and appeal to the dorky fans (myself included) of entertainment on turf. So why does anyone think there is such a divide there?

What was drum corps when you marched?

For me it was Jr Corps in the late 1990s and early 00s. I had a rehearsal weekend once a month, i paid between $500 and $750 in dues for each season. I had a two week move in, in May where we put drill to music and then got on the bus and came back home in august after finals. One summer i marched a corps that had weekly rehearsals all summer, and then did weekend tours for the first 6 weeks of the season. Then we did a full tour for the last month of the DCI season, eventually winning Div 2.

Now I'm a pretty good brass player, and even a good enough musician to be able to fill a slot in the pit my first season of drum corps. But my life growing up was less than stellar. And my folks didnt really have the cash to spare for a summer away. So I worked my butt off to pay my dues, and to find ways to get to camps. My financial situation was one that dictated where I marched. It's the reason I didn't stay at two corps I auditioned for. I couldn't afford both the tuitions and travel fees. In the end, i think I made the right choices to march where I marched, and I had experiences I wouldnt trade for the world. And again, somehow I managed to be good enough to make some good hornlines, and was lucky enough that they were good hornlines with relatively cheap dues.

But I was speaking with these old farts at DCA and they gave me some great insight as to where drum corps came from. Its roots. Many of them grew up in less than perfect situations or neighborhoods. They didn't pay a dime to march. NOTHING. which blew me away. They were given a horn, or drum, or flag, and taught to march. And were instantly put into something that they could take pride in. It kept many of them out of trouble, and gave them an outlet. Many of them couldn't perform at all to begin with. And after a season they were pros. at least as pro as they could be with a crappy bugle.

So to them drum corps was more than simply a place to advance their music education, or a summer away. It became something that shaped their lives for the better.

Does drum corps still shape people like it did 30 and 40 years ago? Or has it molded itself into something entirely different from its roots? Its still about education, but has that evolved from an elementary education into a higher education? And why do all these old farts continue to attend events, but still speak so poorly of where its going? Drill, electronics, tubamaphones...etc. I came into drum corps just as the elex started. And it did amazing things for the technique of the pit players. They no longer had to hammer away to keep volume up with the horns. But this isnt just about elex. Its the total package. Has it evolved beyond that standard fan into something else?

Now I'm not writing this to inspire a ##### fest about the activity. I'm writing and asking these questions because it was on my mind. And i'm thinking about writing a story on the evolution of the activity for an actual article.

But I'd like some honest input. DCA, DCI... doesnt matter. What was drum corps to you when you started. How did you start? why? what decade? could you play when you started or did they teach you everything you needed to know? if youre from one side (DCA, DCI) how did you learn about the other? What did you prefer to attend ten or 20, or 30 years ago? What do you prefer to attend today? And why? What do you love about the activity still? what keeps you coming back? What was your corps? how did they start and evolve? What do you see as the difference between DCI and DCA? You can send responses to my email if you dont want to post it here. Actually that would probably be better. But I'd love to hear some real stories about where you came from, your corps, and what keeps you coming back?

I'm also interested if you have similar experience between DCI and DCA shows like I have. Do you notice the separation between the two?

Thanks.

CHolland.

[JimF-LowBari]

Grew up in South Central PA which had a bunch of Sr corps but never had much of a Jr corps presence. Biggest Jr corps was the York White Roses which went from Sr to Jr to Sr over the decades. So in he mid 70s had Sr corps in Hershey (combined with York), Harrisburg and Hanover all within an hour of each other but nearest Jr corps was Schuykill County which was about 90 minutes away over some nasty mountains in the winter, then some new group called Crossmen (2 hours or so) and Ebensburg Cambira Cadets (who? and three hours away). Even the Buccs and Baltimore Yankee Rebels were an easier drive than the Jr corps. So any Jr news was from ye olde Drum Corps News and PBS telecasts.

For the local Srs one was trying to hit DCA top 10, one hit 11th/12th place a few times at DCA Prelims and one was kinda there but was an opportunity for people to play. Weird part about DCN was it a MA based paper and almost nothing about Sr corps outside the Northeast unless a few came to DCA (Boys/Spirit of 76, Chicago Connection, MN Brass). So never knew about the Govies until the eary 2000s.

LOL as reference I joined the local Sr corps at age 16, as did a lot of others so minors in All Age corps is really old news to me.

Edited November 6, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[Rufus67]

This is a tough one because answers can easily spin out of control, but let's give it a shot. Introduced to DCI on a B/W 13" TV on 1983 watching the Cadets win (was broadcast on PBS over Thanksgiving). Next year went to drum major camp and saw Cadets, and others, live and fell in love with the activity. To this point had never heard of DCA.

Getting near graduation in 85 and a buddy invited me to go with him for the weekend to rehearsal for the Sunrisers. Sounded ok and I ended up with a drill spot (#32!), baritone (best place to stick a sax player who'd never played brass before), and a sunburn. Finished 85, 86, and 88 (took 87 off to court the missus) and during the whole time we were all very aware of DCI, passing around Drum Corps World in the parking lots and pouring over scores. There would be alumni who marched DCI that came back every now and again for finals (to watch mostly, sometimes to march). There were a couple dual DCA/DCI shows I can recall but that was definitely not the norm.

So at that time we were very aware of both activities and I was appreciative of the differences/similarities in the activities.

Flash forward to last year where our son marched his first year of DCA after having auditioned for several DCI corps. He and his buds are very aware of both activities and ultimately he's using his time in DCA to prepare for auditioning again.

What's interesting is that the DCA corps that were in the top 5 this year all were very DCI in their designs I thought. While there may have been grumbling in the stands about the direction the activity was heading (and some not-so-subtle reminders from a fan that our son was a soprano player, not trumpet!), and what it took to be successful, everyone still seemed pumped to be there.

Having said all that our son's corps played exhibition at DCI South and folks around us were generally surprised (1) that senior corps existed and (2) they did something other than stand still and play loud. From what I heard there was a lot of activity at the souvy tables just because folks were excited by what they saw.

It seems like the demographic of DCA is shifting (or at least the corps' recruiting activity). Back in the day it may have been more natural for folks to slide into DCA after aging out. Now it seems to be more about getting the HS kids (balanced with more experienced players/marchers of course) and appealing to them by (1) using DCA as prep for auditioning for DCI and/or (2) a less-expensive alternative to DCI (Open or World). Cannot tell you how many band competitions and exhibitions I've been to this year where there have been DCA recruiting tables but nothing on DCI (and we're in a market where there are several local camps).

Not sure what all that means but it's good to be hooked back into the activity and I enjoy both DCA and DCI for what they do.

[Dan Detweiler]

You know, one thing DCA has that DCI never will...

The ability for a father and son to compete side by side.

hmmmmmm..............

Dan

[BigW]

Jim also forgot the Pittsburgh Royal Crusaders 200 miles West of Harrisburg in DCI at the time. Our stories are intertwined a bit, I am better for knowing Jim and Kris as a person by FAR by the way.... but I have to head to work, I'll think some more about this.

[Florida Sun]

I marched junior corps way before DCI every came about ,the Queensmen ,Saint Alban's New York .We traveled to CT,Mass,Pa. up state to complete .Tour was 3-4 shows in one weekend ,LOL .I join Sunrisers in 63 marched thur 69 ,Did Cabs 70-72 back to Sun in 74 ,Spent 73 following the Hawthorne Muchachao's a corps I loved Traveled out to Marion Ohio for the U.S. Open then up to Toeledo For the Key To THe Sea Invitional ,Then on to Whitewater For DCI .Back in thoses days you went to prelims for 4 days and never saw the same corps twice ,That to me was the hay days of DCI .I still follow both DCA and DCI .I still call a horns by what I knew them to be ,such as a contra not a tuba .lol but its still drum corps ,I returned to Sunrisers in 1980 marched again thur 83 .Got involed in the business end of it ,in 82 made tons of money getting the corps jobs ,In 83 ran for director ,won and it was my greatest year in drum corps ever, Plus the greatest year for Sunrisers ever ,Back to Sun in 2007 as interium Director so I guess you get in in your blood ,it becomes part of your every day life.After Sun I got involed with Bills Boys for a few years ,And from 2001 thur 2007 marched with New York Scottish Pipes & Drums .Tried to get involed with Teal Sound but they didn't last long after I moved here to Florida .I understand the changes that have taken place thur thee years ,as all -age goes younger and is pulling in high school and college kids that don't have the monies to do DCI .When I grew up we hated high school bands ,but over the years they started looking more & more like Drum corps ,now Drum Corps are looking more and more like Bands .That's it folks I love it all.

[C.Holland]

Great. if you guys have any great input or stories to provide, I'd love to hear about what drum corps was when you started. you can PM me an email or I can send you mine.

[MikeD]

I marched from 64 (age 10 1/2) starting in a feeder corps, though I had already had a year+ of drum lessons starting in 4th grade. The three of us feeder corps snares were all kids who played drums in elementary school at the time.

We eventually became a parade corps when our main corps split away from the VFW post, and there I stayed through 67, as my dad was a VFW member. The main corps had split off from the VFW post due to parental politics. My dad eventually let me join that corps for 68 and 69, as it was a competitive corps in the Garden State Circuit. I had seen the random senior corps, but not very often.

When I joined the Cadets after the 69 season, our drum instructor George Tuthill was also teaching the Cabs DCA senior corps, so there was more familiarity with senior starting then, and Garfield and Hawthorne NJ are adjacent towns in NJ, so there was a geographic closeness as well.

After George was let go from Garfield following the 71 season, a good piece of the Cadet drumline quit and moved over to the Cabs in solidarity with George. There was a lot of junior-senior movement in my area back then. I always thought that St Rita's Brassmen were a junior version of the Skyliners.

It is very common today for members of DCA corps to start there and then move on the DCI junior corps. Also, the average age of DCA corps is dropping, as they become a fine alternative for young members who can't afford the cost or time of marching in DCI, but who still want to march corps. For instance, the young pit instructor of the band I teach (around 23 or 24) has been marching in the Buccs. She told me she was the oldest member of Buccs pit!

[C.Holland]

Here's a slightly more personal question. You can PM me answers if you want, but what did you pay when you marched? what were fees for your respective groups? and what other groups were around you in that era? what influenced you? cost? distance? corps identity?

Edited November 7, 2014 by C.Holland

[MikeD]

Here's a slightly more personal question. You can PM me answers if you want, but what did you pay when you marched? what were fees for your respective groups? and what other groups were around you in that era? what influenced you? cost? distance? corps identity?

I don't think I ever paid dues to march in any of the corps I belonged to. We did have to pay for our own food most of the time. Fast food stops were what we did most of the time.

Oh, there were lots of corps relatively close. When I was deciding which "class A" corps to join after the 69 season, I agonized between joining Garfield or the Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights from Newark. A number of kids I marched with in the GSC corps in 68 had joined Garfield for 69, but BS was my personal favorite corps growing up, so I spent the fall bouncing between the two. I eventually joined Garfield, and never regretted that decision, even though in 1970 BS ended up ahead of us a VFW Nats champs in Miami. 1970 was BS' last great year though; they dropped VERY quickly after that year.

Also near me were the Hawthorne Muchachos, the junior corps sibling of the Caballeros senior corps...both were also options, though the Muchachos were not at the level of BS or Garfield at that time.

There were lots of small GSC corps relatively close to me. We competed against a lot of them when I was in the GSC corps in 68/69. St Andrew's Bridgemen were the class of the GSC in 68/69. Other GSC corps were the Riversiders from NY, St Martin's Troubadors from Newark, Polish Falcons from Elizabeth, Secaucus Meadowlarks, Valley Grenadiers, Newton NJ Broadcasters, Paramus Mountettes all-girl, Trumbull Ct Troubadors, Travelers from NY, Morristown Defenders, and some others.

The class A corps near me were Garfleld and BS; followed by the Muchachos. St Lucy's from Newark folded after the 69 season, so they were no longer an option.St Andrew's Bridgemen from Bayonne were just leaving the GSC level and moving up to class 'A' at the time. Other corps we (Garfield) competed against included Blue Rock from Delaware, OLPH Ridgemen, Knickerbockers, CMCC Warriors, St Joe's of Batavia, St Rita's Brassmen, all from NY, plus the Audobon Bon Bons all girl corps from south Jersey.

A little further away, but corps we saw a lot were the 27th Lancers, Beverly Cardinals and BAC, all from Mass. We'd see the Toronto Optimists and De La Salle Oaklands from Canada every so often as well, esp on some of our more extended weekend overnight trips.

Other corps we would see on occasion were the Sacred Heart Crusaders from Manville NJ (right Fran?) and the Newark Woodsiders.

As you can see....lots of corps at many levels.