DCA and DCI. Contrasts? Comparisons? etc.... blah blah blah.

[Low Range 1]

I started out in 1972 with the Racine Kilties organization. I marched through the 1977 season. I am very old school minded about drum corps; so I'm not into the electronics and non-G horns. First off the bands never asked (or wanted) anything to do with drum corps at all. Now all they do is promote band generated agendas through certain key people associated with DCI. This is done so as to influence drum corps to their (bands) liking. Back in my day drum corps built and maintained it's own way of competing, songwriting and crowd pleasure by understanding the "G" bugle. The "G" bugle is pitchy in nature, but provides such power for the player. I have watched several members of the audience hurry back to their seats by only hearing a C major chord of a corps that was about to compete. The band officials have been jealous of that kind of response for eons. Music instructors that lacked real talent pushed for DCI to switch over to a B-flat horn, so that more music could be written and played well. So people that didn't know any better bought it. But Kenny Norman has arranged (for "G" bugles) such charts as MacArthur's Park, Roundabout, War Child, Chattanooga and Auld Lang Syne for musical impact and appreciation. Matter-of-fact in the chart for Chattanooga at the end of the song the drum line mimics an old locomotive going down the tracks. All music or sound was generated on the field by way of the horn line or drum line. None of this electronic stuff. Garfield Cadet took a penalty point just to sing Amen at the end of one of their songs. Then their director partioned DCI to have the human voice (other than the drum major) be heard on the field of competion. Old school drum corps did everything they needed to with the equipment that they could carry onto the field. Now there's 3 or 4 gators bringing out props. There is a whole lot more that I could say about this matter, but before I go I will say this. As far as the musician is concerned he/she became better at their instrument; their individual skills went above the staff of where they started. Music directors (not all of them) became angry, because their students were learning at a rate that wasn't due to them. They wanted to control that. Mr. Holland if you want more information just let me know.

[Fran Haring]

Yet Sunrisers had a contra in the late 70s who was thin to average build and probably shorter than my 5' 6". We never met but friends who saw him up close would come over to me and say "Dang Jim I think he "beats" you...."

That had to be Pat Stiglianese. Pat Stig was his "shortened" nickname, no pun intended.

Nicest guy you ever would want to meet....he'd do anything to help the corps, or anyone in the corps. And he also could be as tough as nails if necessary. I'm guessing at least some of that toughness came from his military days in Vietnam.

He passed away several years ago. A great man.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Fran Haring

[C.Holland]

Thanks all for your input. Again, I don't want this to turn into a hatefest on what anyone thinks the activity has become or what anyone thinks is wrong with it, I just want your take on how you started. Where you learned of it.

What it was then. So I can see where we came from. What it means to you and what keeps bringing you back?

[Jeff Ream]

I learned of drum corps at conception. in Rochester DCa finals weekend 68 LOL.

as a kid, I'd go to rehearsals with Dad at such illustrious venues as the PA Farm Show Building, or parking lot, Cumberland Valley HS, the armory where YR did drill or the Hamilton Post. After he stopped we'd keep visiting rehearsals at City ISland or out at CV, or hit up multiple shows.

I vaguely remember Off the Line. My memories start more when everyone started in the upper right hand corner. Symmetircal drill, still some squads etc. concert numbers. Color pre's. Even some of the end line.I remember when "triples" became the rage....then morphed into "quads"....now they carry 5 or 6 of them. I remember when "tonal bass drums" egads...would play walking 8th notes split between them...and then...gasp....16ths, 24ths or 32nds plus all the other crazy split #### they play today. the pit? You mean the 2-4 people standing just behind the front sideline wearing bells/xylos etc and the concern number when the tympani would take them off...one person would play them, the rest danced and played accessories?

and guards.....same uniform as the corps...same flag the whole show...and of course the rage of signle file down the 50 with stuff being tossed all over?

Brass....well i'm a drummer, so to me, I only really remember paying attention when they startd talking about this third valve thing.

I first finally marched in 89. Dues I think were $200, plus $10 per bus trip...to shows we didn't drive to. Seemed like every other weekend we drove. My last year I think dues were $300-$400, plus $10 per bus trip and then an extra $75 for the trip to Florida for DCI. Oh plus we always chipped in our portion of the hotel room for finals.

To me, on the east coast growing up, we always had a good mix of DCA and DCI shows, several had some of both. Early season you'd see Cadets, Crossmen, 27th, Bayonne, maybe Spirit would come up...the occasional visitor...and then close to Allentown, you'd get some corps from other areas...East and I think South always ran the same weekend so rarely we got the full slate. 85 I think was the one time we did.....prelims started at 7:40 AM, with finals that night, 26 corps....

As DCA was for so long mainly an east coast thing, I could see how the author didn't know. By the time you got out here for shows, most were weeknights or regionals who weren't going to have DCA corps involved. By the 90's, the only show out here that was DCA/DCI combined was Hershey, and usually if a non east cost corps came in at all, it was either bluecoats or Star...maybe one Phantom appearance...

To me, #####ing about what is or isn't is a waste of time. it's changed my entire life. I don't always like some of the changes, and I think some have probably hurt the activity overall....but I still find some kind of enjoyment or I wouldn't go or pay for the various fan networks.

I like a lot of the old stuff. I grew up on it. I like a lot of the stuff from my era of marching....I like a decent amount of whats out there now. I also disliked some of each era too. When I come to the realization I like less and less of whats there, I'll stop. I've slowed down on how much I go due to a) availability of shows that don't require a hotel stay and b) family considerations, but Hell, I took my 3 week old daughter to a Crown rehearsal. Even she agreed the drumline had issues...or was that gas? the look was kind of similar.

In fact, from 2002 until this past April, I was one of those "old guys" in an alumni corps. Average maybe 45 or so for the whole corps LOL.

What makes it drum corps to me? people on a field, with drums and horns and guard stuff, and thank you god no woodwinds, marching and playing, or sometimes even standing still and playing. Serenade in brass was my favorite day of the year.....god weather is coming, and drum corps is close to starting up....got to see many familiar faces to start the season, and it felt like old home week. Losing that day of the year still feels like a mortal wound.

[Fran Haring]

Serenade in brass was my favorite day of the year.....god weather is coming, and drum corps is close to starting up....got to see many familiar faces to start the season, and it felt like old home week. Losing that day of the year still feels like a mortal wound.

I hear ya, Jeff.

The Hanover Lancers have done a great job picking up the ball and running a show (a very well-run show by the Lancers folks) on the old "Serenade" weekend... but it's still not quite the same.

Not as many years attending the Harrisburg show as you.... started in 1990 or so on a yearly basis after going a time or two in earlier years (one of those earlier years... 1988... well, that's a story for another day... long story short, a very crazy air and road trip from NJ to Pittsburgh and back, involving me, two of my Sunriser friends, and Bernie Pack of Steel City... LOL)... but great memories.

It sure seemed that the weather, more years than not, was iffy... usually some combination of cold, rain and wind. And we all had our pre-show rituals.... watching the various corps warm up and rehearse on stage and outside, lunch and/or dinner at Strawberry Square or on 2nd Street, the post-show party at the hotel, some folks going to The Spot for a late-night bite to eat.

And the corps' performances... more competition corps taking part in the early days, more emphasis on the alumni corps in later years... but always great performances. Very good times!!!

Edited November 10, 2014 by Fran Haring

[Jeff Ream]

I hear ya, Jeff.

The Hanover Lancers have done a great job picking up the ball and running a show (a very well-run show by the Lancers folks) on the old "Serenade" weekend... but it's still not quite the same.

Not as many years attending the Harrisburg show as you.... started in 1990 or so on a yearly basis after going a time or two in earlier years (one of those earlier years... 1988... well, that's a story for another day... long story short, a very crazy air and road trip from NJ to Pittsburgh and back, involving me, two of my Sunriser friends, and Bernie Pack of Steel City... LOL)... but great memories.

It sure seemed that the weather, more years than not, was iffy... usually some combination of cold, rain and wind. And we all had our pre-show rituals.... watching the various corps warm up and rehearse on stage and outside, lunch and/or dinner at Strawberry Square or on 2nd Street, the post-show party at the hotel, some folks going to The Spot for a late-night bite to eat.

And the corps' performances... more competition corps taking part in the early days, more emphasis on the alumni corps in later years... but always great performances. Very good times!!!

all you had to say was Bernie Pack....crazy was immediately implied!

[Fran Haring]

all you had to say was Bernie Pack....crazy was immediately implied!

It's an interesting story, to say the least. LOL.

Not to be shared on a family-friendly forum such as this.

[BigW]

A lot of what everyone's said before me applies here. Just had some things go down recently that made it tough to have time to sit down and respond.

Normally I don't open up about certain things, I will now. Just feels right.

Bullied bad as a kid. Never felt I could do anything right or well enough. 5th grade, I started on baritone in school. Why? Jim Ressler said they needed them. I figured if I stank, they wouldn't toss me out. It took me over a year to figure out the horn and actually know remotely what I was doing, it was a good decision to take the bari. Betting people would have laughed if you heard me then that I would be 2xPA All-State Band. I finally found something I felt I could do well and right in my life.

I ran into Steve Rook at District Band my Junior Year- our band competed pretty heavily and we had a DCA show in our town, saw the 1977 DCA PBS video, Steve told me something was going to start happening at Westshore, come. 16 and change, I showed up in Feburary 1979.

I was taught be great folks in HS and college, don't get me wrong. But being taught by legends like Ray Eyler, Frank Dorritte, Eric Kitchenmen, Mel Stratton, Dave Rohrer, John Kreitzer, and being in a group where the vets like Ron Church, Jamie Washburn, Rook, the Fillipellis, Norm Selak, Fawber, and Jeff's Dad, when he showed up to say hi, all made me feel part of the team and meant more to me than I think they ever realized.

It was a special time to be in Westshore from '79 to '84. From the pinnacle to just putting on a show in 6 weeks to save the corps. To compete against legends and beat them as a 20 year old kid. To know that if I worked hard personally and if we all just had some heart and desire combined with good design, we could compete with the best in the world was intoxicating. To light up the crowd, very special. Our bari section, arguably the best in DCA in '82 and '83. The core, a bunch of guys who'd been together for 4+ seasons together. Big Ogre, the Frank Zappa mad genius, Bruce, the wise-cracker tho played a lot better than he lets on, Mike/Baldy, the cat-herder who keeps my head on when I get crazy and isn't afraid to speak up when stuff gets crazy with the staff, and me, the kid gunslinger.

I went on to other things in the activity since then which was good. Education degrees, other stuff. I'm still trying to pass the torch. I think I'm having some success here and there and that's all I could want.

Just a comment on some of the other things touched upon in the thread. Jeff said it quicker than I can- there's brass, drill, percussion guard, no woodwinds, etc. It's still good stuff. I played on a Piston rotor G horn for 4 of my 6 seasons, still use a tough Kanstul G horn for Alumni. The key doesn't matter, man. I play on the horns mainly now because it's thought of as some kind of arcane magic, and I find it fun. If I had a better B-Flat axe for Alumni, I wouldn't blink and say no if it were offered to me. If I could have better control and more consistency with the Lead parts on it than the Kanstul, I'll take the B-Flat axe. I want the crowd to hear good stuff out of my bell 100% of the time.

The one thing I think some folks need to take to heart is this- the people are the same. It hit home with me a couple of weeks ago when I talked to Matt, the Bucs' Horn Sergeant at length. He would have fit in at the Bucs BITD, or with Westshore. Diligent, conscientious, a LOT of heart, very humble, cares about his corps-mates, the activity and the crowd, I can go on. He's the kind of guy I would worry about whether they wanted me on the field with them, and I say this as a 6-season lead player who tried hard to set some kind of reasonable example as I grew up in the corps. Met some of the Cabs' baris this season. I'm still gobstopped as to how little they were. How do they crank it out like that and only be 5'6"??? GREAT young people. I think you gotta talk to the performers, hang out with them when you can. Our hearts are all the same. When you realize this, you know the activity is fine. Sometimes it might get some strange angles in DCI especially, but overall, the ship rights itself from my observation when it gets too stupid.

Edited November 15, 2014 by BigW

[Donny Drum Corps]

OK I will bite...

My older brother was in drum corps and my dad was often quarter master for those corps. I grew up watching him perform in the Dutchtown Lancers, Ridge Culver Statesmen, and Mighty St Joes.

My first nationals competition was Cleveland in 1964 when I was 9, when my mom piled us all in the station wagon and we showed up at the VFW national parade much to the "surprise" of my dad. I joined the St Joe's "peanut" corps the next year. We went to nationals every year, 1965 Chicago, 1966 Jersey City and Washington, 1967 Boston, 1968 Detroit, 1969 Philadelphia...and I lived I Rochester which hosted the DCA championships, so I saw the all of the seniors. I marched starting in 1967 in a national championship finalist. St Joes folded so I went to the Purple Lancers in 1972 instead of the Crusaders. I wanted to be in a junior corps so I traveled an hour to do that. 1974 was magical. The Purple Lancers made DCI finals and traveled considerably that summer. 1975 and 1976, I played solos for the corps that came from the ashes, Phoenix from Rochester. Many believed that corps was made up of outcasts but that is not the full story. Many of those members were fresh from making DCI finals from Purple Lancers, and St Joes guys returning to the field combined with super talented people that were "let go" from the Crusaders after 1972.

I taught many of the Rochester area juniors, Greece Cadets, Mighty Liberators, the Firebirds and the Northmen, Crusaders through the early eighties. took some years off to play professionally and returned to the Empire Statesmen in 1989.

I know so many people through this activity it is truly unbelievable. My music knowledge is considerable through this activity. I was taught by Hall of Famers so well that I humbly became "one of them".

So yeah I remember the starting line inspections, the off the line, color pre, into concert, concert number, production number and exit with two drum solos in between. I am happy to say that I don't grumble about innovations in the modern corps and I am happy to say that I have stayed up to date with the design concepts to still desire to stay active in some way. I cut my teeth in junior corps pre DCI, taught many DCI corps, but made my mark in DCA. I am not afraid of change.

Donny

[hairbear]

Bernie Pack: Yep. But still not to the level Tom McShane reached. HAHAHA!