How did Carolina Crown's hornline rise to dominance so fast

[84BDsop]

BD has a pretty good retention rate of the folks who don't age out, so seeing all the rings is not surprising...and it isn't just for finals.

[xandandl]

That's interesting, but makes sense... ...It's be interesting to see the data on that.

My comment is based on my work over these many years with 4 of the corps who won rings. I have never worked with a California corps. I too would be interested in the statistics. If BD is an outlier, it would be an interesting study to discover why the others don't have that same retention.

[Phantomphan61]

"How did Crown's hornline rise to dominance?"

Matt Harloff...

The guy has pedigree. Marching with Star of Indiana, under the tutelage of Donnie VanDoran.... and he works their butts off - lots of practice. A clinic, just watching them practice

[Jeff Ream]

I think a big reason that so many of the corps fall after winning a championship is because they just start trying too hard. They seem to overdo their shows because they feel that they have to go way over the top with their next year show. That's how I felt about Crown's show this year.

I will agree with this statement 100000000%

[HornTeacher]

I checked into the frequency of repeat winners over the 45 years of the DCI age (omitting 1972, since being the first year, a repeat winner wasn't possible). I found the following:

1973 SCV 1974 SCV

1976 Blue Devils 1977 Blue Devils

1979 Blue Devils 1980 Blue Devils

1983 Cadets 1984 Cadets 1985 Cadets

1996 Blue Devils 1997 Blue Devils

2000 Cavaliers 2001 Cavaliers 2002 Cavaliers

2009 Blue Devils 2010 Blue Devils

In the 45 years of possible repeat champions, it has happened 9 times, or 20% of the seasons. (Compliments to jjeoffrey for pointing out my initial error in regards to the 2000-2002 Cavaliers. Thank you, Jeff. )

I looked up the history of NFL Super Bowl Champions over the same period of time (1973 -- 2014), and found 7 instances of repeat champions, or 15.55% of the seasons.

When the hour isn't so late, I'll do the same with Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL. It will be interesting to see those comparisons.

I suppose what I'm postulating is this: "falling off" from a championship season does not appear to happen any more frequently in DCI than it does when compared with major sports leagues.

Edited:

I said "to heck with it" and went on ahead and checked MLB, NBA, and NHL.

Major League Baseball, over the time period of 1973 -- 2014, had 6 repeat winners, or 13.33% of the seasons.

If you want to bet money on repeat winners, it appears that you should look to either the NBA or the NHL. Over that same period of time, both leagues have had 11 repeat winners, or 24.44% of the seasons. A lot of this is attributable to several "multi-peats" (more than 1 consecutive repeat) in both leagues, and in the case of the NHL, 2 "four-peats" (Montreal Canadiens 1975/76 through 1978/79, and the New York Islanders 1979/80 through 1982/83).

I don't have the foggiest clue what all of this is saying...I guess it just shows that repeating is difficult no matter the competitive arena cited. In my opinion, DCI Corps have nothing of which to be ashamed. As one of my coaches used to tell us, "Winning ain't easy. That's why we have a new season every year."

To show how fickle all this can be, a Blue Devil championship in 1978 would have resulted in a "five-peat." Pretty heady stuff...

Further Edit: I also owe a gigantic apology to ThatOneSlime, the OP of this thread, for my egregious hijacking of the thread. It might have been better for this to be the basis of a thread of it's own. Sorry, One.

Edited December 20, 2014 by HornTeacher

[jjeffeory]

I checked into the frequency of repeat winners over the DCI age (omitting 1972, since being the first year, a repeat winner wasn't possible). I found the following:

1973 SCV 1974 SCV

1976 Blue Devils 1977 Blue Devils

1979 Blue Devils 1980 Blue Devils

1983 Cadets 1984 Cadets 1985 Cadets

1996 Blue Devils 1997 Blue Devils

2001 Cavaliers 2002 Cavaliers

2009 Blue Devils 2010 Blue Devils

In the 45 years of possible repeat champions, it has happened 8 times, or 17.77% of the time...nearly one-fifth of the total years.

I looked up the history of NFL Super Bowl Champions over the same period of time (1973 -- 2014), and found 7 instances of repeat champions, or 15.55% of the time.

When the hour isn't so late, I'll do the same with Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL. It will be interesting to see those comparisons.

I suppose what I'm postulating is this: "falling off" from a championship season does not appear to happen any more frequently in DCI than it does when compared with major sports leagues.

Edited:

I said "to heck with it" and went on ahead and checked MLB, NBA, and NHL.

Major League Baseball, over the time period of 1973 -- 2014, had 6 repeat winners, or 13.33% of the years.

If you want to bet money on repeat winners, it appears that you should look to either the NBA or the NHL. Over that same period of time, both leagues have had 11 repeat winners, or 24.44% of the time. A lot of this is attributable to several "multi-peats" (more than 1 consecutive repeat) in both leagues, and in the case of the NHL, 2 "four-peats" (Montreal Canadiens 1975/76 through 1978/79, and the New York Islanders 1979/80 through 1982/83).

I don't have the foggiest clue what all of this is saying...I guess it just shows that repeating is difficult no matter the competitive arena cited. In my opinion, DCI Corps have nothing of which to be ashamed. As one of my coaches used to tell us, "Winning ain't easy. That's why we have a new season every year."

Interesting stat. Did you count Cavaliers 2000 1st -> Cavaliers 2001 as a repeat win? If not that's 9 out of 45 years, which is 20% ( one fifth) of the years.

[HornTeacher]

Interesting stat. Did you count Cavaliers 2000 1st -> Cavaliers 2001 as a repeat win? If not that's 9 out of 45 years, which is 20% ( one fifth) of the years.

Thank you, Jeff...I told you it was late! Actually, what happened is this...I failed to look more closely at the years in DCI's list of yearly champions. On that list, it is cited this way:

2002 The Cavaliers

2001 The Cavaliers

2000 The Cadets

2000 The Cavaliers

So in my stupid cursory scan it appears that there is a single repeat here. I just forgot to also look specifically at the year column. Additionally, I also forgot about the tie. Hence, my error.

My initial post has been edited with respect to the error. Thank you again (respectfully, not sarcastically) for the help.

[Pete Freedman]

1. People are talking as if Crown is going into a slump in brass. But they came in first in 2014 in brass Content (99) and 2nd in Achievement (98). And that could really be a tiebreak situation because of the unofficial ban on caption ties. So the real adjusted difference was no more then .1 and likely less. Not a slump. Still pretty much at the top of their game.

2. The 990s thread showed that the root of all good and evil in DCI is money. Clearly then, this must be the basis of the effect Brasso is talking about.

3. So we see the beginning (money) and the end (stable results). The question is: how does money translate to results through such disparate factors as caption head quality, tech instructor quality, arrangement quality, member attraction, member retention, props, show promotion, online presence, etc. The causality is very criss-cross between all these factors, making it hard to see obvious effects.

I don't think it's just that they can pay more for everything so they get better everything. I suspect the corps with more money attract better staff and resources just because money is attractive. Look at it this way: would you rather work for a corps that might have a typical DCI corps financial crisis, small or large, at any given time throughout the season/year, or would you rather work where the situation is financially stable and you can spend your whole time thinking about excellence? Money makes you a "happening" corps.

Why did Harloff go to Crown? Why Klesch? I think financial stability gets their attention, and then the Matt Harloffs of the world come to work with the Michael Klesches, and vice versa. And the best volunteer techs will come running to work with them. And the kids. It's a money-talent gravity well.

EDIT: I'm not saying Crown has money. They were the earlier issue (OP). Crown just became the example for the stability issue. I have no knowledge of Crown's money situation or why they're doing well.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Pete Freedman

[Tobias]

Great staff, consistent product. Success brings confidence brings success brings confidence...

[Ghost]

EDIT: I'm not saying Crown has money. They were the earlier issue (OP). Crown just became the example for the stability issue. I have no knowledge of Crown's money situation or why they're doing well.

Garfield should stop by soon with some info.