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A Very candid interview with Dan Acheson


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French Lake or French Lick? French Lick resort is a bit south of Indy and would make more sense.

Yup, I was apparently re-editing at the same time you were catching my mistake. Sorry about that.

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LOL, sorry. I misread your post. I thought you were saying Dan said on-demand playback is gone, and he didn't say that--he just said not now. But I have to agree, the product line he and DCI are least likely to offer in the foreseeable future is the past archives because of the adverse ratio between the time and cost required to acquire those rights and the number of people who are willing to pay to see it. I know we have some very vocal forum members here who want it very much. It's probably not practical for DCI to do, as Dan seems to be saying.

If the forum had an X to delete a post that hadn't been answered, I'd have used it. The only option when one realizes they've misread things and stepped in it is to erase the post, substitute a period, and hope a mod deletes it.

Actually, I didn't see your post. I took the "." to be a disgusted frown. If you were frowning at me, that's fine. No one's who's interested in seeing previous years' shows is going to be happy with anything about the current state of affairs. But on-demand playback is gone - wanna hold your breath till it comes back?

Edited by drangin
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Yup, I was apparently re-editing at the same time you were catching my mistake. Sorry about that.

You made....the FRENCH MISTAKE! :silly:

Edited by KVG_DC
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Some questions I would have asked:

  1. Why now? Why was the licensing issue not a problem 10 years ago? If DCI behavior regarding licensing has not changed since 1972, what did change to make this a problem now?
  2. Why is the 2015 DVD set limited to the top 12 corps?
  3. We keep hearing that there is a mountain of detail to be contended with before DCI can get back to full media production. At the risk of glazing our eyes over, what are some of those details? Or, perhaps better, categorize the different types of details. Give us a sense of just how dense this thicket is.
  4. When all this is over and DCI is back in business selling streaming, replay, and all manner of recorded media, what will be the net change in cost to the DCI customer? Will it be double the amount we paid in 2014? Triple? A 25 percent increase? Give us a sense of the magnitude of change that we're in for.
  5. How important is it to you that all DCI member corps act as a group when it comes to media production? Does the possibility of better-financed corps going into the media business for themselves concern you?
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Actually, I didn't see your post. I took the "." to be a disgusted frown. If you were frowning at me, that's fine.

No, not at all. Anytime you see that single period, otherwise empty post, by tradition on DCP, it's either a "whoops, my bad, never mind, wish I could delete the whole thing, but this is the best I can do," or a silent tribute/RIP for a departed friend of the activity. You're right, it's gone.

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Some questions I would have asked:

  1. Why now? Why was the licensing issue not a problem 10 years ago? If DCI behavior regarding licensing has not changed since 1972, what did change to make this a problem now?
  2. Why is the 2015 DVD set limited to the top 12 corps?
  3. We keep hearing that there is a mountain of detail to be contended with before DCI can get back to full media production. At the risk of glazing our eyes over, what are some of those details? Or, perhaps better, categorize the different types of details. Give us a sense of just how dense this thicket is.
  4. When all this is over and DCI is back in business selling streaming, replay, and all manner of recorded media, what will be the net change in cost to the DCI customer? Will it be double the amount we paid in 2014? Triple? A 25 percent increase? Give us a sense of the magnitude of change that we're in for.
  5. How important is it to you that all DCI member corps act as a group when it comes to media production? Does the possibility of better-financed corps going into the media business for themselves concern you?

Those are excellent questions. But you are not in the Merry Christmas from DCI mode that Rondo was in.

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Is that a real office (and if so, whose) or a studio?*/**

*(Edit: at the end, Acheson thanks Rondinaro for "hosting . . . at French Lake Resort"--which Google says is in Wisconsin.)

**(Edit redux: if I'd only checked my email first, I'd have seen that the discussion took place at "Indiana's historic French Lick Resort".)

In the discussion of media products and licensing, which runs from 9:10 to 16:55, much simply restates what was recently announced, but these seem to be two key sections:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ACHESON: so here's the thing. In the last eighteen months, we've learned that all of our diligence still falls short. We have have more to do. We have more work to do to make sure that we're in full compliance and we have engaged professionals, legal and copyright experts to help us navigate that, but one of the things we have to recognize is we don't just stage events, we stage music events, so we're in the music business. We need to be very, very in tune with the changes, and there are changes. There are some things that are the same that we just need to do better, but there are changes. The internet is the wild, wild west. And the music industry: all you have to do is look at any music magazine and you'll see that there's something in there about what's going on with an artist and copyright law and being paid and those types of things. It's changing all the time, because media is being delivered a lot differently than it was in 1976 when the Copyright Act was put into place. So we have to adjust to that, and that's the point: we have to get better at taking care of that business, and that's what we're trying to do right now. We're trying to make sure that we have new protocols in place. We launched an audit of all of our internal procedures; we put in some new protocols. We have a long way to go though to make sure that we have everything in place that we need.

RONDINARO: You thought though in good conscience you were dotting your i's and crossing your t's.

ACHESON: The corps themselves, Drum Corps International, and the people we work with all were under the understanding that everything we were doing along the way was the right thing to do. And in fact, we've spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars on royalties paid for products sold and those types of things. There's details to get into: timing and those kinds of matters related to compliance for various licenses and so forth. And then there's details related to interactive streaming that have changed--the rules have changed in the past few years--that we have to adapt to. So, yeah, there's a lot to this that we thought: we're rolling along. But then again, we need to take a harder look at this on an ongoing basis, not just on a once-in-a-while basis, like any good business would.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ACHESON: It took a little bit longer this round, because we're making sure that absolutely everything is in place before we release that, so that royalties are paid, all the permissions are correct, and there's no question that when we release this product, everybody who's engaged at whatever level of permissions and royalties and whatever else is being taken care of.

RONDINARO: And if I understand this right, if you don't do that, the organization and the corps face risk of a huge financial liability that could put us out of business. Is that overstating it?

ACHESON: You are not overstating it at all. I mean, we're in an environment where there's a lot of sensitivity, even for what we would consider to be educational groups. You know, there's a lot of myths out there about "Well, it's education, so therefore they don't have to get licenses". No, because the way the publishers look at it, and the copyright holders, is: it's a business, it's a commercial enterprise. We can say "non-profit" all we want; the bottom line is, somebody's making money, therefore money needs to be shared with those who are entitled to it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I wonder who in the corps Acheson is paraphrasing about the "myth".

A final key point Acheson makes about the music industry: "We're just a micro-microcosm of their business."

the myth is found in several posts here and on social media. What people don't want to hear is rights holding is a business. They could give a #### about education, they care about $$.

without naming names, here's complex this is:

a few years ago, a corps wanted to do a tune that had several rights holders. All but one of the holders signed off.....the problem is they couldn't find the last one to sign! No legal address or phone number, and the other holders had no clue. So boom.

One blank on past offerings finally heard back from a rights holder years afterwards. "oh hey, we missed this...do you still need it?"

I'm told, with all of the various clearances needed, as well as the processes needed to deal with the major rights holders as well as the minor holders....if a map were drawn on how to navigate it, it would look like a chutes and ladders game. YOu may not realize this, but if you do a show based on a musical, and you use images from the musical, then you need to get theatrical licenses...a whole new set of clearances on top of the usual.

I know many want the archives....but if you look back and just take the top 12 from 1972...and if DCI has to go back and re-clear permissions and repay royalties or pay royalties missed.....it could bankrupt them.

Edited by Jeff Ream
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Some questions I would have asked:

  1. Why now? Why was the licensing issue not a problem 10 years ago? If DCI behavior regarding licensing has not changed since 1972, what did change to make this a problem now?
  2. Why is the 2015 DVD set limited to the top 12 corps?
  3. We keep hearing that there is a mountain of detail to be contended with before DCI can get back to full media production. At the risk of glazing our eyes over, what are some of those details? Or, perhaps better, categorize the different types of details. Give us a sense of just how dense this thicket is.
  4. When all this is over and DCI is back in business selling streaming, replay, and all manner of recorded media, what will be the net change in cost to the DCI customer? Will it be double the amount we paid in 2014? Triple? A 25 percent increase? Give us a sense of the magnitude of change that we're in for.
  5. How important is it to you that all DCI member corps act as a group when it comes to media production? Does the possibility of better-financed corps going into the media business for themselves concern you?

1. a major merger allowed the new entity to examine everything and realize, "um hey...this isn't how we interpret it". Which really sucks, because NuLion was signed for the extra features they could add, as well as the ability to tag in advertising...which of course would have created more licensing issues.

2.....no offense to corps 13 on down.....money. the amount made on 13 down in sales would not come close to equaling what would have to be paid out in royalties.

3.....i'd say within the next month, more disclosure will be coming. expect your eyes to truly glaze over

4....not known yet.

5....there is safety in numbers. an individual corps will most likely not have the sales the collective would.

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a few years ago, a corps wanted to do a tune that had several rights holders. All but one of the holders signed off.....the problem is they couldn't find the last one to sign! No legal address or phone number, and the other holders had no clue. So boom..

Do you know what the outcome was here? If I had to guess, I would say that the corps did the tune anyway, even though they didn't have all of the rights granted. Some (not all, but some) of this mess needs to be attributed to the designers who say they don't care about the DVDs/Blu-Rays or anything else involved except for the points given out in an effort to win (and we always say it's not about the winning, it's about the experience - well you can't have it both ways).

I know many want the archives....but if you look back and just take the top 12 from 1972...and if DCI has to go back and re-clear permissions and repay royalties or pay royalties missed.....it could bankrupt them.

What would it take to partner with Tresona and get all of this taken care of? Would it be so expensive that it wouldn't make any business sense? Is DCI being that stubborn that they want to do this by themselves, and it is taking way longer and costing way more money in the long run than if they just became a client of Tresona? Seems to me that if it is relatively reasonable price-wise, maybe doing the deal would keep everyone happy and allow DCI to move on to bigger and better things, no?

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Do you know what the outcome was here? If I had to guess, I would say that the corps did the tune anyway, even though they didn't have all of the rights granted. Some (not all, but some) of this mess needs to be attributed to the designers who say they don't care about the DVDs/Blu-Rays or anything else involved except for the points given out in an effort to win (and we always say it's not about the winning, it's about the experience - well you can't have it both ways).

Jeff said this: "a few years ago, a corps wanted to do a tune that had several rights holders. All but one of the holders signed off.....the problem is they couldn't find the last one to sign! No legal address or phone number, and the other holders had no clue. So boom."

My guess is that Jeff was referring to the corps wanting to get the rights to arrange and perform the piece, based on the above. DCI is the party who would be acquiring the synch rights, long after the corps has paid for the arrange/perform rights.

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