mboogey73 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I think you have to differentiate a story from a theme. They are not the same thing. A theme is very broad. An umbrella under which the the music, drill and guard work fall under. A story progresses logically from beginning to end. There's probably some actual characters involved, and if you know the story you can "follow" it. Both types of shows have had success. Spartacus, again and obviously, was clearly a story. Angels and Demons was a theme. Both won gold. But, as I said earlier, it's how well the show is performed that matters most. The truth is there are usually a couple of shows every year "good enough" to win. The difference is the corps ability to execute the program. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Honestly, I liked Into The Light's storytelling more than Spartacus' Spartacus was too blunt of a show, but I'm probably in the minority of people who aren't huge fans of that show. I like that Into the Light allowed for more audience interpretation and invoked a lot more emotion in me than Spartacus ever has. People will always disagree on the type of shows that are best because it is all subjective. Discussing this is useful, but I don't think anyone can objectively say one type of show is better than the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Honestly, I liked Into The Light's storytelling more than Spartacus' Spartacus was too blunt of a show, but I'm probably in the minority of people who aren't huge fans of that show. I like that Into the Light allowed for more audience interpretation and invoked a lot more emotion in me than Spartacus ever has. People will always disagree on the type of shows that are best because it is all subjective. Discussing this is useful, but I don't think anyone can objectively say one type of show is better than the other Into The Light was an amazing design, and it definitely told a story, but was it "story-telling" like most people are saying on this thread? I think I2L worked because it was willing to let the audience tell themselves the story. Spartacus was theatrics, as well as they've been done in the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) I think you have to differentiate a story from a theme. They are not the same thing. A theme is very broad. An umbrella under which the the music, drill and guard work fall under. A story progresses logically from beginning to end. There's probably some actual characters involved, and if you know the story you can "follow" it. Both types of shows have had success. Spartacus, again and obviously, was clearly a story. Angels and Demons was a theme. Both won gold. I really like your comments above. To me, and this is just me, I honestly don't see a ton of story telling. There is some, and I would agree that it's difficult to do in such a short period of time, but I really think we mostly see theme shows or concept shows. Some theme shows may have a very simple story element woven within, but not anything that might require insight before one sees the show. Angels and Demons was a general theme (good vs bad, heaven vs hell). The Cadets played with that theme really well, and some might have claimed they told a story, but they didn't. They just created images & soundscapes of good vs bad, and good ultimately won. People could say this year's Bluecoats show is more theme based where as TILT was a concept show. That is a good argument because their show this year does have a general narrative (non-vocal) behind what they are doing this year, but hearing the sound, the scoring, and the visuals in various patterns of down to up, side to side, and all the other variations is still a concept more than a theme. And the Bluecoats could care less if you truly understand it because what the show really aims to do is entertain and thrill. Edited July 16, 2016 by jwillis35 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboogey73 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I really like your comments above. To me, and this is just me, I honestly don't see a ton of story telling. There is some, and I would agree that it's difficult to do in such a short period of time, but I really think we mostly see theme shows or concept shows. Some theme shows may have a very simple story element woven within, but not anything that might require insight before one sees the show. Angels and Demons was a general theme (good vs bad, heaven vs hell). The Cadets played with that theme really well, and some might have claimed they told a story, but they didn't. They just created images & soundscapes of good vs bad, and good ultimately won. People could say this year's Bluecoats show is more theme based where as TILT was a concept show. That is a good argument because their show this year does have a general narrative (non-vocal) behind what they are doing this year, but hearing the sound, the scoring, and the visuals in various patterns of down to up, side to side, and all the other variations is still a concept more than a theme. And the Bluecoats could care less if you truly understand it because what the show really aims to do is entertain and thrill. Well stated. The last sentence is the bottom line. Each show either appeals to you, or it doesn't, regardless of its content. I personally pay very little attention to what the show is about. Couldn't care less really. I've never watched a show, didn't like it, read up on the theme, then liked it. If a show appeals to me, I like it. Plain and simple. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) That show has a story? I would love to hear what it is. Guess I never caught it. But I still enjoyed it. There actually Is a story, someone from Cavies could tell,it better than I. Here is the abbreviated ESPN broadcast of finals night. I have probably watched this clip 50 times and it still blows my mind. This is as bad ### as you can get. #### that trumpet line was freaking awesome, and a truly legendary drill. Machine and Frameworks are the gold standard for me. Would pay big money to have seen this show live. https://youtu.be/4BBr22ZxaqY Edited July 16, 2016 by MikeRapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 if done well, who gives a ####. next complaint of the season please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise--just that storytelling may not be the most effective path to a good show.Maybe other people disagree, but I think the judging reflects that, no? Literally - the effect scores at finals for the last 15 years don't seem to be saying that storytelling is the default most effective thing, or favoring one kind of storytelling to others. It seems like effect judges reward variety, over all... But do audiences reward variety? That's the bigger question, imo. Because a top corps that rolled out a show with no theme, no story, just an assortment of songs, would have people complaining that it lacked "general effect" and wasn't competitive. Maybe corps lay it on thick because they think that's the way to keep our attention, or get us emotionally involved or whatever. I agree it's too often overdone. But I see the logic! Edited July 16, 2016 by saxfreq1128 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Uh, that's not how the judging system works. You'd be very, very surprised how much truth there is to Channel3's post. DCI judging is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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