Why only 5 mini corps this year?

[ErieSopMike]

well, some corps that compete on sat and sun like Erie had mini corps as well, but i think they spread themselves too thin. So they had to dial it back. Or they outgrew mini-corps into Class A.

I know that Thunder Brigade went the route of committing to traveling for DCI Soundsport. So their big money trip was to Indy this year.

And for some like High County Brass and Renegades/Opus7 they closed up shop.

I think here in the east, we have a dozen options for places to already play in regards to DCA corps. So to start another group would further reduce the pool of performers interested in drum corps. Or to not get anyone at all.

A lot of the Thunderbirds Alumni formed the NorthCoast Brass Company and the Thunderbirds is (mostly) for the kids, lol.

Why would you want to limit the places to play... anywhere? I want to march, but I surely can't afford the Buccaneers tuition costs, but that doesn't mean I can't have another option nearby. Now before anyone says anything.. This is where that age limit on Cadets2 is an issue. I can't afford to drive to Scranton weekly to do Skyliners, or NJ to be in Fusion Core or Cabs... So Reading is my only competing marching option.. and I can't afford it. So now what? I'm driven out of the activity because of LACK of ensembles.

The performers are everywhere. People come and go in the activity and that's expected and have their reasons.

I'm looking to start something small and build up. Whether with an existing corps or starting fresh (which is a lot harder). But I look at what my friends in Erie have done and it IS possible. So Reading is an hour away from me, who cares! There's a lot of people who are in my situation that can't afford them or whatnot, why would it be wrong to have a different group where those people could come and perform and gain experience marching in DCA?

Are the days of Prelims starting at 2:00 and going til midnight done? More than likely. Does that mean that we can't have more corps though? Absolutely not. I'd someday love to see the return of the Empire Statesmen and Renegades, if only a dream.

Also, what's wrong with having corps close to each other? You wouldn't be reducing the pool, you'd be making the corps marketable to performers. If people have choices, you'll have more room for more people in each group. Those that may get hidden on an inner part with one group, may have the chance to emerge and shine in the spotlight with another. Again, look at Erie, they have a mix of young and vets and they're making it work.

So if I stand alone in a position that I want to make a difference in DCA by adding a new corps, then at least I know I'm trying.

It just makes sense to me that if there are more options that can meet the needs of more people, then you'll have more people involved. Right now, with how many groups there are, sure, there's a bunch in the NE and a few elsewhere, but if given the ability and correct circumstances to be involved again, more people would come out. This is better for the business of DCA because you'll have more families and such in the stands to watch... It's one big snowball effect.

Anyone can feel free to PM to discuss my vision more.

Sorry I went OT there, but it does cover minicorps as well in avenues that could be formed, etc.

Edited September 7, 2016 by ErieSopMike

[C.Holland]

A lot of the Thunderbirds Alumni formed the NorthCoast Brass Company and the Thunderbirds is (mostly) for the kids, lol.

Why would you want to limit the places to play... anywhere? I want to march, but I surely can't afford the Buccaneers tuition costs, but that doesn't mean I can't have another option nearby. Now before anyone says anything.. This is where that age limit on Cadets2 is an issue. I can't afford to drive to Scranton weekly to do Skyliners, or NJ to be in Fusion Core or Cabs... So Reading is my only competing marching option.. and I can't afford it. So now what? I'm driven out of the activity because of LACK of ensembles.

The performers are everywhere. People come and go in the activity and that's expected and have their reasons.

I'm looking to start something small and build up. Whether with an existing corps or starting fresh (which is a lot harder). But I look at what my friends in Erie have done and it IS possible. So Reading is an hour away from me, who cares! There's a lot of people who are in my situation that can't afford them or whatnot, why would it be wrong to have a different group where those people could come and perform and gain experience marching in DCA?

Are the days of Prelims starting at 2:00 and going til midnight done? More than likely. Does that mean that we can't have more corps though? Absolutely not. I'd someday love to see the return of the Empire Statesmen and Renegades, if only a dream.

Also, what's wrong with having corps close to each other? You wouldn't be reducing the pool, you'd be making the corps marketable to performers. If people have choices, you'll have more room for more people in each group. Those that may get hidden on an inner part with one group, may have the chance to emerge and shine in the spotlight with another. Again, look at Erie, they have a mix of young and vets and they're making it work.

So if I stand alone in a position that I want to make a difference in DCA by adding a new corps, then at least I know I'm trying.

It just makes sense to me that if there are more options that can meet the needs of more people, then you'll have more people involved. Right now, with how many groups there are, sure, there's a bunch in the NE and a few elsewhere, but if given the ability and correct circumstances to be involved again, more people would come out. This is better for the business of DCA because you'll have more families and such in the stands to watch... It's one big snowball effect.

Anyone can feel free to PM to discuss my vision more.

My reference to the point about a saturated market, is New Jersey/New York. Where there's a ton of ensembles within a few hours of each other. Cabs, Cabs Alumni, C2, Bush, Sky, Sun, Fusion... as well as Cadets, Surf, and Raiders if you're DCI age.

But there are also shows reasonably close to each other each week, to support all these ensembles. And not all of these ensembles were full. There were places to march in at least four of these corps well into their seasons.

Cost will always be an issue. Because until groups have their own professional development offices, and can bring in enough of their own funding to help lower the costs of the activity, (space, food, gear, fuel...etc) Those costs have to be passed back onto the consumer.

Now, in regards to some of the groups like High Country, they didn't have many options for places to perform. They had a few DCI shows, maybe one or two DCA shows, and Championship Weekend. Which I'm not certain would do much to bring in membership. Especially when many of the BK age outs don't live even close to Denver, and its not exactly a hotbed for marching band. So you now have the problem of little exposure, and high costs for little return. I'm not sure how to fix that. You need ways to generate performances, and corps to perform them.

I think the Columbus Saints picked the best geographic spot to start up. They're in a good state for marching band and winter guard, they have DCI, DCA, and SDCA shows within a few hours of them. They are a travel hub to get to cities that have larger shows, and they aren't dipping into the same local pool as many other groups.

[ErieSopMike]

My reference to the point about a saturated market, is New Jersey/New York. Where there's a ton of ensembles within a few hours of each other. Cabs, Cabs Alumni, C2, Bush, Sky, Sun, Fusion... as well as Cadets, Surf, and Raiders if you're DCI age.

But there are also shows reasonably close to each other each week, to support all these ensembles. And not all of these ensembles were full. There were places to march in at least four of these corps well into their seasons.

Cost will always be an issue. Because until groups have their own professional development offices, and can bring in enough of their own funding to help lower the costs of the activity, (space, food, gear, fuel...etc) Those costs have to be passed back onto the consumer.

Now, in regards to some of the groups like High Country, they didn't have many options for places to perform. They had a few DCI shows, maybe one or two DCA shows, and Championship Weekend. Which I'm not certain would do much to bring in membership. Especially when many of the BK age outs don't live even close to Denver, and its not exactly a hotbed for marching band. So you now have the problem of little exposure, and high costs for little return. I'm not sure how to fix that. You need ways to generate performances, and corps to perform them.

I think the Columbus Saints picked the best geographic spot to start up. They're in a good state for marching band and winter guard, they have DCI, DCA, and SDCA shows within a few hours of them. They are a travel hub to get to cities that have larger shows, and they aren't dipping into the same local pool as many other groups.

You hit one big key... corps outside the NE. It's been an issue for some time to see that DCA corps outside the NE get a fair set of scores to set them up for Finals. Renegades and SoCal Dream had issues along with Minnesota Brass. Now if the activity were to grow out West, there could be an opportunity for DCA to branch to an East/West circuit. Yes, Finals would be an issue trying to find a location (look at the outcry when Finals went to Annapolis... aka, left the NE so to speak).

As for the "saturated" market... yes, there's a good amount of corps there. More of that comes back to recruiting. Yes, the DCI kids are off DCI'ing until early August. I'm a firm believer that the people are out there, you just have to find them and make them want to come perform for you/with you.

However, to go against your point, the NY/NJ area is just one small area. I want to help the activity grow in an area where it's pretty much Bucs or nothing (esp if you can't afford the drive to the NY/NJ corps.. like me). Yes, it's within the NE, but at a spot where there is a changeover taking place. As mentioned, Westshoremen liquidated, and I'm awaiting response from the Lancers. I would like to see more being done to help "hand over command" to keep corps alive. Sure, the glory days will always be there, and I know it's hard to let that go, but if all the groups go this route, the activity itself will just be a memory sooner than later.

As far as money goes? I know this isn't a cheap activity, but if you get the right people and ideas, anything is possible.

[camel lips]

A lot of the Thunderbirds Alumni formed the NorthCoast Brass Company and the Thunderbirds is (mostly) for the kids, lol.

Why would you want to limit the places to play... anywhere? I want to march, but I surely can't afford the Buccaneers tuition costs, but that doesn't mean I can't have another option nearby. Now before anyone says anything.. This is where that age limit on Cadets2 is an issue. I can't afford to drive to Scranton weekly to do Skyliners, or NJ to be in Fusion Core or Cabs... So Reading is my only competing marching option.. and I can't afford it. So now what? I'm driven out of the activity because of LACK of ensembles.

The performers are everywhere. People come and go in the activity and that's expected and have their reasons.

I'm looking to start something small and build up. Whether with an existing corps or starting fresh (which is a lot harder). But I look at what my friends in Erie have done and it IS possible. So Reading is an hour away from me, who cares! There's a lot of people who are in my situation that can't afford them or whatnot, why would it be wrong to have a different group where those people could come and perform and gain experience marching in DCA?

Are the days of Prelims starting at 2:00 and going til midnight done? More than likely. Does that mean that we can't have more corps though? Absolutely not. I'd someday love to see the return of the Empire Statesmen and Renegades, if only a dream.

Also, what's wrong with having corps close to each other? You wouldn't be reducing the pool, you'd be making the corps marketable to performers. If people have choices, you'll have more room for more people in each group. Those that may get hidden on an inner part with one group, may have the chance to emerge and shine in the spotlight with another. Again, look at Erie, they have a mix of young and vets and they're making it work.

So if I stand alone in a position that I want to make a difference in DCA by adding a new corps, then at least I know I'm trying.

It just makes sense to me that if there are more options that can meet the needs of more people, then you'll have more people involved. Right now, with how many groups there are, sure, there's a bunch in the NE and a few elsewhere, but if given the ability and correct circumstances to be involved again, more people would come out. This is better for the business of DCA because you'll have more families and such in the stands to watch... It's one big snowball effect.

Anyone can feel free to PM to discuss my vision more.

Sorry I went OT there, but it does cover minicorps as well in avenues that could be formed, etc.

How much are dues at Bucs??

[ErieSopMike]

How much are dues at Bucs??

Check your PM

[Jeff Ream]

A lot of the Thunderbirds Alumni formed the NorthCoast Brass Company and the Thunderbirds is (mostly) for the kids, lol.

Why would you want to limit the places to play... anywhere? I want to march, but I surely can't afford the Buccaneers tuition costs, but that doesn't mean I can't have another option nearby. Now before anyone says anything.. This is where that age limit on Cadets2 is an issue. I can't afford to drive to Scranton weekly to do Skyliners, or NJ to be in Fusion Core or Cabs... So Reading is my only competing marching option.. and I can't afford it. So now what? I'm driven out of the activity because of LACK of ensembles.

The performers are everywhere. People come and go in the activity and that's expected and have their reasons.

I'm looking to start something small and build up. Whether with an existing corps or starting fresh (which is a lot harder). But I look at what my friends in Erie have done and it IS possible. So Reading is an hour away from me, who cares! There's a lot of people who are in my situation that can't afford them or whatnot, why would it be wrong to have a different group where those people could come and perform and gain experience marching in DCA?

Are the days of Prelims starting at 2:00 and going til midnight done? More than likely. Does that mean that we can't have more corps though? Absolutely not. I'd someday love to see the return of the Empire Statesmen and Renegades, if only a dream.

Also, what's wrong with having corps close to each other? You wouldn't be reducing the pool, you'd be making the corps marketable to performers. If people have choices, you'll have more room for more people in each group. Those that may get hidden on an inner part with one group, may have the chance to emerge and shine in the spotlight with another. Again, look at Erie, they have a mix of young and vets and they're making it work.

So if I stand alone in a position that I want to make a difference in DCA by adding a new corps, then at least I know I'm trying.

It just makes sense to me that if there are more options that can meet the needs of more people, then you'll have more people involved. Right now, with how many groups there are, sure, there's a bunch in the NE and a few elsewhere, but if given the ability and correct circumstances to be involved again, more people would come out. This is better for the business of DCA because you'll have more families and such in the stands to watch... It's one big snowball effect.

Anyone can feel free to PM to discuss my vision more.

Sorry I went OT there, but it does cover minicorps as well in avenues that could be formed, etc.

Here's the thing: mini corps is perceived by a large chunk of the younger set as a place for old guys to go when they can't cut the drill. Some mini corps threads on here over the years haven't helped recruiting. I haven't been to mini corps finals in a few years but the last few times I went I felt young in my 40's compared to the crowd around me.

That's why I've said several times now to roll it into Soundsport. It's considered hip and new, and it's been launching a few new corps a year

[ErieSopMike]

Here's the thing: mini corps is perceived by a large chunk of the younger set as a place for old guys to go when they can't cut the drill. Some mini corps threads on here over the years haven't helped recruiting. I haven't been to mini corps finals in a few years but the last few times I went I felt young in my 40's compared to the crowd around me.

That's why I've said several times now to roll it into Soundsport. It's considered hip and new, and it's been launching a few new corps a year

That's the thing. I've avoided saying old vs young because it's not all about age. I'm trying to look at minicorps as something fun to do for everyone. It's something young and old can do together with as much or as little movement is desired. Minicorps is where I got to perform with Gary and Jeff Gibbens and MelliGene and they taught me a lot (whether they know it or not).

I also think that the powers that be of DCA need to pitch it some more, along with the I&E stuff. There are tons of talented individuals.

Part of the problem though, is that the performers who would want to do this, can't, because their respective corps have them practicing on Friday night (some not all). So could there be things done to have more involvement there? Possibly.

I'm open to talking with anyone and everyone about making DCA a bigger and better place for all ages!

[ErieSopMike]

By the way, thank you everyone who is participating in this thread, I think we have a really good discussion going on here.

[Fran Haring]

Actually, it may be the opposite. Alumni corps folding or going inactive may be indicative of a lack of interest at a certain age/participation level, which could also impact mini-corps.

I hear ya, Mike.

I think that, at a certain point, a lot of people simply just don't want to be marching/playing in a drum corps anymore. That is not a knock on any corps, nor a reflection on where the drum corps activity has been or where it might be heading.

People either might want to get away completely from drum corps, or just be fans or perhaps support staffers for any given corps. There really is nothing wrong with that.

On the alumni side of life, I don't think any corps is immune to this. Heck... the corps with whom I was involved... Westshoremen Alumni... just went through this.

[Jeff Ream]

You hit one big key... corps outside the NE. It's been an issue for some time to see that DCA corps outside the NE get a fair set of scores to set them up for Finals. Renegades and SoCal Dream had issues along with Minnesota Brass. Now if the activity were to grow out West, there could be an opportunity for DCA to branch to an East/West circuit. Yes, Finals would be an issue trying to find a location (look at the outcry when Finals went to Annapolis... aka, left the NE so to speak).

As for the "saturated" market... yes, there's a good amount of corps there. More of that comes back to recruiting. Yes, the DCI kids are off DCI'ing until early August. I'm a firm believer that the people are out there, you just have to find them and make them want to come perform for you/with you.

However, to go against your point, the NY/NJ area is just one small area. I want to help the activity grow in an area where it's pretty much Bucs or nothing (esp if you can't afford the drive to the NY/NJ corps.. like me). Yes, it's within the NE, but at a spot where there is a changeover taking place. As mentioned, Westshoremen liquidated, and I'm awaiting response from the Lancers. I would like to see more being done to help "hand over command" to keep corps alive. Sure, the glory days will always be there, and I know it's hard to let that go, but if all the groups go this route, the activity itself will just be a memory sooner than later.

As far as money goes? I know this isn't a cheap activity, but if you get the right people and ideas, anything is possible.

Westshore liquidated for a few reasons:

One the field corps ended after 01 because of issues recruiting after some, well, serious administration issues. Key people involved in the 90's run weren't welcomed to stay home. And admin the last few years knew it all, just ask them.

The alumni corps was started as maybe a one off. Reaction was good, let's go to year two. Then Hershman got involved in 04 and the corps exploded in size. The appeal was the schedule. Not a drummer wanted to do a parade. 3/4 rehearsals and Serenade? Perfect! Real part time drum corps.

Then Serenade folded in 11. The corps lost members because part of the appeal was playing "our" show. Key members moved on for a variety of reasons and leadership was ready to turn it over..... And no one wanted to take over.

So the plug was pulled.

If I had millions of bring it back. However I'd never think about putting my own money into it if I didn't have plenty. The 501 lapsed so I'd literally have to start from square one.

When I win powerball I'll have plenty of ensembles