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2007 Cadets was probably the best example of how to ruin a drum corps show using vocals.

Unless Sky comes back :tongue:/>

Ok. But is there any evidence to suggest that a younger membership wasn't inevitable anyway? Empire claims to have had their youngest corps ever, and most rookies since 1983, in 2012 with G bugles and no amplification.

They should come up with an entirely new 'business structure' if there are plans to bring the corps back.

Drum Corps International is proud to present!! Teal? Doesn't sound right to me. They should come up with an entirely new name if there are plans to bring the corps back.

I have no desire to return to Rochester to watch championships. Not saying I won't, but it would have to be a really good year for drum corps for me to go back there as a spectator. I absolutely hated it there as a performer. Only thing that did make me miss it this year was the temperature the weekend of champs. Rochester was in the low 70's while Annapolis was in the 90's with massive humidity.

I'm trying to figure out why someone would walk away from DCI c. 1997. Phantom had won the previous year with a beautiful Shostakovich show, Blue Devils were still very much in the mainstream, Scouts were going strong, Crossmen made top six for the second time... who could leave at a time like that?

My questions is still what passed & failed at the DCA Rules Congress meeting

The cost of participating especially for the younger participants typically relies in the disposable income of their parent(s) and/or guardian(s). Mom and Dad have no additional dough, no one is going anyplace........either to perform in a show or attend a show. And the same holds true for those of any age; but more-so in the evaluation process of a parent and/or guardian when the family budget has to be taken into total consideration. I'm quite sure everyone looks at (or should look at) "value"; inasmuch is the participant getting value for the "investment" (that's government talk for spending). Is value an uplifting positive experience where it's also affordable, the participants are well fed, travel and lodging taken care of, etc. Or does value come from having "keep up with the Joneses" expenditures placing a larger burden on the participants themselves; because it will be a "shared sacrifice" from a bulk of the membership to a lesser segment of the membership. The performing arts activity is (especially now) in a highly volatile financial atmosphere. We have multiple corps (all sectors; DCA, DCI, Alumni, etc.) asking for donations of all sorts from meeting basic budgetary expenditures to even get on the field in 2013, to saving equipment from a creditor, to paying for repairs, to getting new uniforms....and it never ends; it never will..........the intensity may lessen given which way the economy gives it's push, but the needs of some sort will always be there. Most every corps, at one time or another, goes through a rough time (or two, or three, or four)...that's the nature of the beast. But.......... What is value? Maybe offering more meals as part of the privilege of membership, maybe putting the corps membership up in a reasonably priced lodging facility rather than a gym floor, maybe offering bus service rather than carpooling for a gig or two, maybe a nice season ending banquet at no cost to the membership.....what are the participants going to remember, what are the participants (and the parent's of the younger participants) going to appreciate? Examples such as these type of things.........or an electrical outlet?

now that Michael Gray is no longer as prominent a voice on the staff I bet it will be less artsy

I don't blame electronics for the death of corps and exodus of fans. I blame electronics for MY exodus.

Drum and bugle corps was long past "relevant" by the time field competition was organized in the 1920s. That was the charm of it all. Crowds were much larger back when drum corps was like you describe.

They said under-rated and outside of the well known ones in the OP. Madison has always been known for smoking horn lines, no one can question that.

Well yea but what about here on the west coast? We don't get to see regionals and only get to see a handful live in june. It might not be as good as live but if you hear it on my vintage stereo you would still be impressed at least a little.

And THAT is, frankly, what scares a lot of folks.

Yea, we're alike in that thinking. No chance I'll go to Rochester. None. I'll happily buy the best seats again in Annapolis though, and enjoy 2013. After that, it's the live stream until they go anywhere not calle Rochester.

Yup...not the departure I was hoping for...well said. BTW..how can this be a drastic departure with so many people posting this has Bluecoats written all over it...

"Roller Derby of the Century" "A Third Chance" "Spartacus and Juliet" "Between Angels and Hopkins" "The Devil's Stair Lift" "15 Minutes of Fame, Part 2"

I did not write this. I read it on Facebook posted by someone in one of the DCA sections over there. It sums up very eloquently how I feel about DCA as a whole as this is what I saw in DCA when I first started. Not the DCA I see today. "DCA has forgotten where they came from. The once all inclusive activity has turned in to a sub set of DCI. What once was a positive activity for anyone who wanted to do it, no experience needed, has turned into something I no longer recognize. I doubt that today's corps would even consider taking someone off the street and teach them how to play a horn. Most of us old guys wouldn't have a chance to march in today's DCA. How many Harvey Oldermans, Pepe Notaro's are out their? None. They would be too old, not talented enough, or unable to do the drill. Kind of makes you wonder what drum corps is really about anymore." So the electronics issue is just another nail in the coffin for the dino crowd. Shove a few more to the street. Make room for some more youth. Sure seems like the direction DCA is wanting to go. Sad but necessary I guess.

I am extremely excited to announce our Percussion Staff here at Atlanta CV for the 2013 season. The wealth of knowledge that they bring to the table is impressive and very exciting. With our front ensemble, Mr. J.T. Snell is returning for 2013, as well as Mr. Erik Brown with our battery section. Mr. Matthew Manturuk who is currently in the Annapolis Navy Band is returning as our Front Ense... mble Arranger. New to 2013, Dr. Jeff Grant brings a wealth of percussion experience to our front ensemble. He earned his Doctorate in Percussion from Southern Miss where he studied with John Wooten, and was a former member of the Spirit of Atlanta ('92/'93) and the Cavaliers ('95). Ms. Lauren Teel who will be joining us with her Bachelors in Percussion from North Texas University is a former member of the Phantom Regiment ('10) and Santa Clara Vanguard ('11) front ensembles under the direction of Paul and Sandy Rennick. Mr. Marcus Hawkins will be working with the battery section and has taught Alliance, and Quest, and was a member of Music City Mystique as well as the Spirit of Atlanta, the JSU drum line, and is the assistant director at Baldwin High School. Mr. Corey Sajous will be working with the snare line, and joins us fresh off a season in the World Champion Blue Devils Snare Line and was also a part of the Music City Mystique snare line in 2011. It's not everyday you find a staff that boasts several Bachelors, Masters and a Doctorate in Music, 3 DCI High Percussion Trophies with 3 different ensembles and 3 DCI Championships and a WGI Championship. I am extremely happy that they have chosen to work with us, and I look forward to them sharing their incredible energy, and knowledge with the members at Atlanta CV. Our first camp is December 15-16 and all information can be found on our website. I hope to see you there! Chris Romanowski Percussion Caption Head and Arranger

Anyone know if they are using Saucedo's "original" music? I am probably the only one out there that hopes not. I know a lot love the "original" shows, but there is only so many ostinato rhythms, or whole notes in the low brass with quarter notes melodies I can take. Of course he puts in the obiligatory clark study for a run. Just my thought. Not trying to start a fight, just a thought.

I don't mind artsy provided it works. I just hope they march this year and do toe-down only when it actually works.

Maybe you're exaggerating? You can count on just one hand the number of shows worth standing to clap over the past 10 years? Sorry to single you out, but I'm geniunely curious. Off the top of my head, just in the past FIVE years, I'd imagine few would dispute most of these were were worth standing in appreciation: 2008: Phantom - Spartacus; Cavies - Samurai; Blue Stars - Le Tour 2009: Crown - Grass is Greener; SCV - Ballet for Martha 2010: Bluecoats - Metropolis 2011: Cadets - Angels & Demons; Blue Devils - Beat My Heart Skipped; Crown - Rach Star; Phantom - Juliet 2012: Crown - Common Good There weren't five worth standing for from that short list? HH

It was ? There might have been more " pop " ( " popular " ) and show tunes played back in the earlier days of DCI, but the vast majority of songs played back then were NOT " pop" tunes, nor " show tunes ". Thats just inaccurate. One look at the top Corps music on Corpsrep from the 70's and one can can easily refute this inaccurate observation of yours. And lets not forget that the Cadets did a show last year that had all recognizeable music.... Christmas Music. Crown did an entire show in 2011 that was chock full of " pop " music, and " pop culture ", and so didn't Spirit of Atlanta this past season... and others as well. Its not so much WHAT is played... as it is HOW the arrangement is written by the brass arranger in my view.

Or too busy talking about how they would design it better or how much better it was in the 80's...

We must always remember a single, most important qualifier. Can current participants (performers and audience) continue to do this thing financially? The current economy is pretty bad, money is MORE than tight for everyone, including potential sponsors, stadium owners, advertising merchants, etc. The squeeze is on in a way we've never known before. I truly believe the ONLY way to continue what we are now doing (on the level we have been doing it) is to involve MORE people. As radical (distasteful?) as these types of progressions are, I'm confident they are being made with the best of intent. The "George Hopkins" out there may not be as devilish as we are quick to determine! I mean, we've used up the "let's just charge more per ticket card," don't you think?

and the people rejoice

Not only that, the maintenance of woodwinds is crazy, and they are VERY temperamental instruments when it comes to adverse conditions: humidity, rain, fog, etc. could literally very easily ruin a woodwind instrument, or at best cost hundreds of dollars for repair (per instrument). I can't imagine woodwinds being used in any way other than small ensemble or solo stuff

Is 55 years old and starting following corps in 1974 "long enough"? I see DCA changing but being more careful with changes that would hurt corps in the pocketbook. IMO - one of the reasons why Class A has been the growth area of DCA. Edit: Vid of first show I ever say can be seen on Cabs website (74 Hershey). LOL, if you can see the corps thru the dark... yeah it's changed.... As for relevant... if drum corps would go away would the world stop spinning and the sun not come up? Nope... then not relevant...

plus they buy tickets to prelims and finals, participate in I&E, eat at restaurants, etc.

Bluecoats 02, such a fun show that I always enjoy a bunch when I actually watch it. SCV 02 as well, the first SCV show I ever saw.

All my ranting and bias aside, this is my realistic list. 1/2. BD and Crown- They're both amazing and, with the addition of the west coast tour for Crown, it should be a toss up for the title. 3. Cadets- They'll field a #### good show, especially with their repertoire this year. However, I don't think it will get them on the same level as BD/Crown. 4. SCV- It should be another up year for Vanguard. :) 5. PR- Phantom will be Phantom. 6. BOC- The crusaders crack the top 6 after two years of serious growth within the organization. 7. Bloo- Coats will field a kick-### corps, but show design and rep will hold them back. 8. Scouts- They're hungry to be an elite corps again and make babies take flight. 9. Cavies- They'll struggle again in another rebuilding year. 10. Bones- Crossmen are glad to be back and don't look to be departing anytime soon. This is where it gets interesting. 11/12. These two spots could go to just about anybody. BK is down, but is it enough to put them out of finals? SOA is kicking ###. Stars were really close last year. Academy will continue to build with Andre Feagin. PC supposedly has a large number of vets this year. Glassmen is retooling in the wake of crushing debt, but also has many vets coming back. Even Colts or Troopers could sneak in. (Not a knock on those corps, but they're just down IMO) If I absolutely had to pick, it would be: 11. SOA 12. Stars/Glassmen/Academy/BK (It'll be a tight race.) My wish list: 1. Crown 2. SCV 3. Bloo 4. BD 5. PR 6. TOC 7. Cadets 8. Scouts 9. Bones 10. Stars 11. Glassmen 12. SOA

it will take time. to be honest, DCA dropped some huge PR opportunities in Annapolis. There's at least two band circuits with a huge presence operating there, and nothing was down to take advantage of it.

From their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Bluecoats This piece is right in their comfort zone. I'm sure it will be a gas!

You're attempting to create a completely artificial distinction. Which condenses to: Things I think should happen = natural. Things I don't want to happen = forced. Perhaps you were going for rapid change vs. gradual change? (In which case I'll bring up punctuated equilibrium). I disagree that the activity has been morphed into something completely different. Both the end product (kids running around a football field while playing music and spinning equipment) and the member experience (kids working incredibly hard to perfect their show) remains very much the same. In fact IMO both those aspects have been vastly improved. Kid's don't ride around in death trap vehicles, they actually get nutritious food, and the end product is absolutely amazing.

As well they should be.

Interesting that a topic asking "What is your vision of the future"? receives so many "Sorry, your vision is not what needs to be heard." responses. But. . . . ..it's natural for folks to decide how to respond in whatever manner works for them, so I'm OK. Also, much communication takes place outside of this forum, as it should. Carry on.

Then stop playing music that has dissonance in it...simple I am tired of squinting and wincing during musical statements...I want to have ears and eyes wide open most of the time with most of the drum corps music presented. This clip doesn't feature any ground breaking music...IMO.

And so it begins. The offer I made in the Cadets2 thread this time last year still stands; in 2015 or so, when the dust settles and all the "useful idiots" are standing around asking "WTF happened?" , PM me and I'll explain it to you. I'll use small words if necessary.

DCI being screwed up isn't enough for you, you want to mess with DCA too, huh? Wanting everything your own way isn't good sharing.....

The point of amplification is not that you never play at full dynamics. It's that you don't have to just to be heard. Parts can be played with the appropriate technique, dynamics and musicianship and still be as present as they need to be to achieve the desired effect.

*looks at 2011 BD during the big shout in "Say a Little Prayer"....notes the person on the vibes POUNDING the keys at around the 6:57 mark of the vid. Very end of 2011 Cavies...yep....pounding away. There are certainly other examples. Remember the argument that amping the pit would mean players wouldn't have to pound their instruments into the ground for their part to be heard and contribute?? Remember also when the allowable size was increased, so more corps added brass or drums....thus drowning out the amped pit? So...now you add more pit instruments (I counted 10 LARGE keyboards at one point) in an effort to counter the larger brass/battery...some of them miked (Really, BD??? You need to mike a guy who's parked near the sideline and already screaming a double C???)...you can't turn the amps up or you get distortion...so the only thing to do is to whang the things harder.....which kinda defeats the original purpose of amping them. If you have 10 large keys in the pit, they're amped, and the players -- even at the very top -- still feel they need to beat them to death....there's something wrong here. When it's a soft horn passage, an exposed key passage, etc and they can be heard normally, they CAN....WITHOUT BEING AMPED. Amping, then increasing the wind size, and thereby forcing the keys to he heard over THAT, even with amp assistance, renders irrelevant the orchestral technique argument used to approve amps in the first place. It's happened in DCI....I see it happening in DCA now. Sad.

Big John; I watched the Parade part. I think most Corps did fine. BUT, I must say how very :blink:/>/>/>/>/> disapointing the Cabs were at the opening.. (and that is the Best I can say of that.) HOWEVER, the Indoor concert show by the Cabs were , :worthy:/>/>/>/>/> "Spectacular, Exllent, Fabulus, Magnificent", and any other word you can think of,." Best of The Best " for sure. All but one Corps put on excelant show's also, at the indoor part. Well worth finding and watching on youtube. It hurt's me to say. But as to to Les Diplomates de Quebec Alumni, Looked,,Acted Sounded like. a DCI Class D / or small High School BAND or something. Did Not Like them at ALL.. ( and this hurts to say, about the Sr Corps from Canada. One I considered the "Skyliners" (Looks and Sound) of Canada in both their day.)

And I quote: “I think Santa Clara is always classy. I like to refer to them as the Rolls Royce of the industry. Most of the kids who are now 28, 29 grew up loving the Santa Clara corps. I just got old in drum corps loving the Santa Clara corps. I think that I’m prejudice. I love this drum corps; they’re my kind of corps, if we’re allowed to say that. And I think they did many, many wonderful things out there. They brought us a truly accessible show that audiences can relate to. I don’t think they’re going to do as well as Mr. Rondinaro predicted because of the things that Michael (Cesario) talked about; which were obvious to us up here - but we’re on the fifth level. And the judges aren’t up here. So we may not know exactly what’s going on.”

"Dr. Beat's Greatest Hits"

"Friends and Neighbors" - Music from Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood with voiceover clips from Home Improvement... "Don't Worry, Be Hoppy" - Using Madison's "Reframed" show as a basis, a mashup of YEA-approved 'greatest hits' interspersed throughout Bobby McFerrin's megahit... "To B-Movie or not To B-Movie" - Music selections from Manos - Hands of Fate, Invasion U.S.A. and Plan 9 From Outer Space, uniforms styled after Sean Connery's Zardoz outfit...

A prequel to 12.25: "Black Friday"

"Not Ready for Prime Time": "Mr Bill Show"...... Elphaba WWW

since sullivan has been at blue stars, the blue stars had one of my top 3 favorite music books every year (except this last one), I hope he lands somewhere else, it will be a shame to not hear his stuff any more. same goes for kevin ford, I would love to see his designs somewhere soon!

BD '93.