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So true. If you can't win with what brings the audience out of their seats, sends them home satisfied, then maybe we need to take a hard look at what we are trying to sell.

On the money. I hope all-age corps never goes to the "oh-so-serious" less-personality route taken by so many DCI corps. Not a knock on those DCI corps. They are absolutely great at what they do, and I enjoy watching them. But I would hope that all-age corps have a bit of a different mission. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this whole game is passing me by. Maybe the days of DCA being the more relaxed, personality-oriented, mainstream, (meaning the "average fan from whatever town" can enjoy most if not all of the shows, as opposed to the "inside marching music" audience) outright crowd-oriented product (by that I mean that corps like Empire Statesmen, Skyliners, etc. can, and have, thrived competitively even though those corps' shows are/were geared for the average fans first, judges second) are going away and will not come back. I don't know. Heck... I don't know a lot of things.

The pessimism surrounding this is palpable, and to be honest, quite overblown. Yes, Sal and Brian did amazing things with the corps in the late nineties/early 2000s...but honestly, for all their hype and the hype within the organization surrounding these individuals, the panic that is being expressed is entirely disproportionate. The Boston Crusaders went through a similar turnover a few years ago, losing some big DCI personalities such as Howard Weinstein and Kevin Ford. The corps (calmly and quietly) turned to itself to replace this loss, appointed Tom Spataro as executive director, and have enjoyed success that has the corps knocking on the "G8"'s front door. Loss of talent does not happen in a vacuum, and the hysterics that many people are behaving with is simply unwarranted. Last I had heard, the Glassmen had already worked off over 40% of their $300,000 goal. That was about a month ago, and after only two months of fundraising efforts. There have been successful Presidential campaigns predicated on less. The alumni network that has been established and is off and running is very significant. The Glassmen have never exactly had a public relations firm representing them online, and I have to wonder if Cavies or Cadets spent a week without camp dates on their website if it would garner a similar reaction...well, I don't wonder, we all know it would not. Everyone was "shocked" that the loss of Michael Gaines and Jeff Fiedler resulted in the corps taking a relatively minor hit in placement, nothing more drastic than other groups have recovered from in the past. As members of the G-Family come together to bring resources to the organization, there is a very effective "slow burn" that has been building to clear away the debris from 2012. Quite frankly, people running around like chickens sans heads in public over a Facebook status post is unbecoming conduct, regardless of your relation to the group. Express your concern, if it is so great, by pounding your wallet instead of your keyboard. Otherwise, you're just a concern troll. Sal Salas will move on. The Glassmen will move on. It is important to acknowledge the reality of the situation, and the reality is that many people are pulling very hard for this drum corps family. I have been very encouraged by what I've seen. The Glassmen's rather public move to encourage activity has had many consequences; the drum corps community should be encouraging the positive ones instead of piling on the negatives in public.

So there's a drum corp in San Marcos Texas starting up called The Guardians. The corp director is barely a college sophmore. Anyone wanna shed light?

Cleaned up the thread somewhat. Let's do our best to keep the bickering out of this one, shall we?

Andy, It would be difficult to overstate the positive influence of inner city drum corps organizations in those days. PAL, CYO, Legion, VFW, parish and other groups literally saved lives. In many cases, what we would now term "at-risk" youngsters were "coaxed" into these organizations as an option to punishment for anti-social behaviors of one sort or another, or exhibiting the potential thereof. The whole concept of the Police Athletic League is predicated on this alternative to street life. This is not to say all members were wanna-be gangsters, but the early intervention certainly provided a viable direction for the youngster who had the need to belong to a group, often as a surrogate family. Bridgeport and Philadelphia PAL are prime examples, as are the CMCC Warriors, Carter Cadets, the Wynn Center Toppers, Page Park Cadets, St. Raphael's, the Stockton Commodores...the list is lengthly. For the life of me I simply do not understand why there is not more universal support for groups like the Spirit of New Jersey, PAL Bucs, Annapolis Drum and Bugle Corps, New York Crimson Kings and the other similar corps that are sprinkled throughout urban areas in this country. Let me be clear: I do not mean to imply that DCA, DCI or anybody else should take a lead role here. They have their own struggles. Encouragement and support should come from those of us who were fortunate enough to have benefitted from membership in urban corps and understand their importance. It's the "season of giving". Write a check and send it to one of these groups. It's a payback. If you can't write a check, write a letter or send an email to the mayor encouraging the city to give all possible assistance to these folks. We used to stand on retreat at CYO shows and listen to the cardinal or bishop heap nonsensical praise on us for being "the good kids". We all knew we weren't so good. Imagine what we'd have been like without the corps. (Well, he sure gets fired up about this, don't he?)

Glassmen survived the Mayan Apocalypse; they'll survive this as well. Corps go through such changes when management and staffs desire a new challenge in their lives or need to do something new to recharge their creative batteries. Glassmen survived the departure of Dan Acheson, who left after leading the corps to a higher placement each year for a stunning ten years in a row. How did the corps respond? Well, after the hiccup of the first year, they came back and two years later placed higher than ever. Dan was a great leader who prepared the corps for a future without him. I feel the same about Brian and Sal. Great leaders do that...they want the organizations to live beyond their tenure. Glassmen will be fine.

By that, do you mean turn the light on so as to wake them up from their 'dream of lollypops' in order for them to face the nightmare of drum corps reality?

I just think its interesting how in the last few years, due in very large part to the failings of Brian Hickman and the poor design and lack of leadership by Sal, the corps is in a worse place than it has been in the last 20 years. Financially, Brian could barely keep the wheels on, having to borrow money from a local Indiana band director just to get the busses to Indy to WATCH finals in 2011. Various staff decisions by Brian and Sal have left certain parts of the corps in very poor quality, and if it weren't for the amazing volunteer corps that Glassmen is lucky to have, I don't know if anything would get done. Kudos to the veteran instructional staff members and the volunteers for holding the Glassmen together despite the efforts of others. I hope that the Glassmen can now move on to much bigger and better.

The Glassmen.org website is temporarily off-line for maintenance. Please pardon the inconvenience. We will be back soon. The Glassmen Board of Directors welcome Michael McGreevy to board membership. Mike will be assisting with logistics and planning. Also, welcome back to Maureen Moomey who has rejoined the board after a brief hiatus. Glassmen 2012 – 2013 Camp Schedule<br style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;"><br style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;">November 23 - 25 Audition Camp 6pm Fri – 2pm Sun<br style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;">December 14 –16 Audition Camp 8pm Fri – 2pm Sun <br style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;">January 11 – 13 Rehearsal Camp 8pm Fri – 2pm Sun (Brass & Perc) <br style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;">February 22 - 24 Rehearsal Camp 8pm Fri – 2pm Sun (Brass & Perc) March ?? - ?? Rehearsal Camp 8pm Fri – 2pm Sun (Brass & Perc) April 26 – 28 Rehearsal Camp 8pm Fri – 2pm Sun (all sections) May 10 – 12 Rehearsal Camp 8pm Fri - 2pm Sun (all sections) May 21 Move in (Percussion only) – Early Tuesday evening* May 24 Move in (full corps)* *Rehearsals continue every day until we depart on tour March Camp dates originally fell on Easter Weekend - the dates are being reconsidered. so in a little time i found you a message about the website, an addition to the corps, and a camp schedule. Dont blow stuff up and out of proportion. Sal was a great person with the corps and when he wasnt with the corps. He will be missed.

IMO, you are pretty close Fran,..............IOW,Empire is not leaving DCA,..........DCA has left Empire,............

Follow the thread. May the force be with you. There's a spreadsheet on post #724 :tongue:/> Dinner with the neighbours was wonderful, roast with hearty vegs and gravy. Keep calm and carry on :smile:/>

Cabs and Cadets2 would seem to have the most chance of making a serious run at the Bucs, but I still feel as though the Bucs are so much ahead of the curve that it may still take a couple of years to close the gap. Would be a blast to see Sunrisers going Open Class and making finals...or better! And it IS possible to win with a show design/concept that brings the fans out of their seats and sends them home satisfied. Reading did just that last year! And I, and most drum corps folks I know, expect the best example of marching, musicianship, design and concept, as compared to the modern paradigm of the activity, to win the contest. To be honest, the corps who always entertains me the most is Cabs Alumni, however I would not expect, nor would I leave the contest satisfied, if they were to compete and actually win.

Since getting involved with DCA in 2004, Empire Statesmen have consistently been one of my favorites each year regardless of placement. Holy Scheit, their tribute to Maynard show has been played so many times in my house that my family has forced me to go to headphones! I don't know the reasons behind this and don't really care. It sucks big time as a fan.

1. This is how we lose housing sites. Though not likely in this particular case, given the staff connections. Still, this is not the first camp for 80% of anyone there, and cleaning up a school is something you learn and perfect after first camp. 2. Youth Performing Group is an accurate and useful term for drum corps these days. It's how we get donations from rich people who have no idea at all what we are. It implies education and artistry, which are certainly attractive things to donate towards. So, IMO, idiot newspeople got it right. Props also to Jim Coates on excellent damage control.

On his facebook page Sal has stated 25 minutes ago that he has resigned from the Glassmen. Now what? Have they been able to pay off some debt? Their website was down a few days ago, not sure if it is back up. Interesting.

I have brought them up a few times but man were they an awesome small corps back in the 1970s. Love to hear your stories. Bring'em on!!!

Beyond the lack of horns, equipment and uniforms problem, let’s look at a bigger issue....is this an official organization? Has it been filed with the IRS or a local bank? Personally, I have no idea the process behind that, but there has to be some financial work done before the organization can start pulling in members, right?

i digress...

Middle ages...medieval fantasies...European folklore. Am I getting closer or am I simply embarrassing myself with these guesses?

Would it be Walton's The Tempest?

Ok, those are pretty sick!

That's the right attitude to have, Dan. Other corps have reported members who returned "home." Again, the Cadets organization offers its members an easier transition, so they'll have a leg up there. That's part of the reason I consider Cadets2 the most "dangerous" corps for the coming year.

ummmm no. He actually wrote some great instrumentals like Blessed Relief, Waka Jawaka, Grand Wazoo, etc.

I would think that if a corps cannot afford to buy something, they shouldn't. No one needs to micromanage the size of pits. It is their responibility to operate their corps at a level that they can afford. With that being said, most corps are not at the 128 maximum, so limiting the pit is not going to mean a larger hornline.

I like how you are "minusing" each other. Now what? Sal does whatever his next thing is, in or outside of drum corps, and G-Men move on. I would like to think the organization is bigger than one person. I would like to think any organization is bigger than one person. If not, then that organzation has a lot bigger problems.

NewSkool is having a great thread here... at least 3 superb posts.

My initial impresseion was that it was just a bunch of verbose nonsence. But we will see....

We need MORE COWBELL!

Thanks, John, for the kudos! Fran, it probably wouldn't be appropriate to "rank" the corps with The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (as, I think, you wanted in post #2!) for a couple of reasons. First, the data is, at least, a year old and may not accurately reflect the corps' current status. Plus, who's qualified to pass judgement? Some would say DCI, others might say anyone who contributes time or money to the corps. Still others might say only the Boards and directors can accurately judge. My primary motivation for starting this thread is my son, Garfield's_kid, who's 13, got a great set of snare hands, and is itching to march in a couple of years. My hope is that other parents who are considering corps for their kids will use this thread to ask questions about corps they are considering. Lastly, I hoped to see some clarity on corps who are trying to compete "above their league" and are threatening their balance sheets as they do so. When I'm done with all of the World Class corps I'll update the spreadsheet, and try to sort the data to reveal if this trend exists.

Honestly, it's their own fault. They shouldn't post show hints and announcements on their website with numerical file names.

The tempest is coming. Ye sailors beware!

If this prediction comes true, this would be the first time in 10 years that the Blue Knights fail to make Top 12 Finals. It just shows how hard it is to make Top 12 Finals these days with so many large and talented Corps.

It's Bush's fault drum corps haven't been invited for so long...

NEXT SUN DEVILS CAMP: JANUARY 5TH & 6TH AT CITRUS HIGH SCHOOL IN iNVERNESS, FL COMMON DOWN FOR THE FUN!! http://sundevilsdrumcorps.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90&Itemid=54

The pit always seems to take a bad rap because they don't march. But think about it. When there's a parade and someone has to carry the corps standards who's the first one who gets the call? When the water bottles have to be taken care of they do it. When the truck has to be loaded and unloaded who does it? We all know who it is and they do it without complaint. Drum Corps is lucky to have them.

I'd love to see a show about "Nanuk the Eskimo". "Don't you go where the huskies go...and don't you eat that yellow snow"

I hope they do an all Zappa show! No one else has the guts to do it. They could try it. (hey at least I tried)

he dosen't know what he's talking about. just ignore him on this. no need to get our pants in a wad.

Not certain? Because he's VOReason. That's what he does. He cannot resist any opening to take a shot at the Empire Statesmen. VOReason: Empire Statesmen hater extraordinaire. He has turned it into an art form of sorts.

I find it sad that some people have to Voice their assinine remarks on here. I would always rather "go out" on top rather than leave hurting. Statesmen are doing it the right way. I am sad to see them not competing after this year as they have meant so much to DCA. They have been (still are) the most entertaining drum corps!

Drum a little better and make the drill a little more cleanable and who knows, it could be their year.

"...out of this world." What does that mean?!?! A space show? Star Wars!? The Planets!?! I'm obviously experiencing some pretty severe drum corps withdraw...let's go Crown! Hope it's another one to remember.

I've heard a few camp recordings and some inklings as to what their source material will be, and I must say I'm excited for them. The music is very mature and the design team seems to be going for a more intellectual show...something I think the corps will need if they hope to topple the Blue Devils.

Very disappointed to hear this. I loved 2011 and 2010 and hoped they'd stick with those types of shows. I personally am not a fan of any type of dancing hornlines - or drumlines.

Ray Eyler was the brass caption head in 1976, but I'm not sure if he arranged the book. Ray also worked with the Crossmen in '76. I remember giving him a ride from Charioteers rehearsal in Birmingham to McEachern High School west of Atlanta the day before the Atlanta show in 1976. I think that was the same day that the Crossmen had gotten disqualified for the season for having an overage member.

xylos, especially with glass mallets can be heard 4 counties away, it's the nature of the instrument. but the growth in marimbas and vibes being used was to allow for more depth in the parts...you may think they are all playing the same notes, but often they are not...within pit scoring today you can get melodic, counter melodic and harmonic parts all going at the same time. Sure, sometimes they may be unison or in octaves, but not always. Plus one marimba can be at the top end, while another in the middle, and one dowing the low end...all doing the above. One way to think of it is this Jim: Why does a corps need 2/3 bari parts or 2/3 sop parts?

Interesting point Hop brings up: using non-movement (Hop-ism for standing). Predict this will become the 'controversial' aspect of this show (for die hard Cadets fans at least). The music has all been done. The other thing I found interesting was the very winterguard-ish idea of having Adagio playing during the entire production and just controlling the mix. This sounds like a pretty cool show.

Blue Knights have announced their 2013 show - "NoBeginningNoEnd" http://www.bknights.org/