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Showing content with the highest reputation on 11/12/2015 in all areas

  1. In both drum corps and band, design is a means to an end: education. A poorly designed show is unfortunate, but not a critical failing as it would be for Cirque du Soleil, for example. There are many poorly designed shows, and the corps and bands survive because they are succeeding at their mission, which is education, not putting on great shows for audiences. I like to think that if I were a corps director I could find staff to deliver nothing but amazing shows, but I bet it's harder than it looks. And ultimately more expensive one way or another.
    3 points
  2. Enjoy the different mediums for what they are. High school band is less difficult than DCI, yes, and of course it's less perfectly executed overall (generally). But does that make it less enjoyable? Not necessarily. It's all just a different form of band. The goal is to entertain, to educate, and to emote. Not to confuse and to enrage. It's just band.
    3 points
  3. Does '27 in 1994 count? That was pretty amazing
    2 points
  4. To be fair, in this thread, I think those who dislike Broken Arrow's design (e.g., shofmon88, Herk, Hockey Dad) have said more to to back up their positions than have those, like me, who admire B.A.'s work. No art is self-evidently superior. It's all subjective.
    2 points
  5. What if I like marching bands and drum corps? Do I have to choose? (Aspects of one genre seems to influence the other and vice vera) What if I like winter guard too? What will I do? Why so many questions? Where are the answers? What fan am I? Is the sky blue? Alas DCP, I need thee to guide me
    2 points
  6. 1992 VK Really went out on a high note
    2 points
  7. So... I have finally come out of the wilderness and decided to march again... I've only taken a 23 year break, so not too long away from the game. I am marching 2016 with Kidsgrove Scouts. I played bari in Jr corps but these days I am playing tuba... which brings me to my point.... That ###### horn is the spawn of a demon. Any advice for a relative newbie to marching contra (tuba) with regards to particular excercises and also how to find the sweet spot on my shoulder for that bad boy to sit?
    1 point
  8. My impression is that DCI doesn't have the money to wipe their own butts, let alone charge an under-paid intern staff-member the job of "fan sounding board". Their duty is to the corps, period and end. The have no obligation to fans at all, or to even TEP's that host their shows. Their dedication is to the corps that draw fans who pay ticket charges that pay their salaries to justify their existence. Yet, maybe not surprisingly, DCI or its member corps always seem to know what's being said here on DCP. On the one hand they discount it as unimportant in this Facebook world while, on the other hand, they spend an expected amount of time knowing what we say here. You'll never know officially that your comments here are heard by the DCI kingpins, but you can always feel assured that they're listening to the comments here. What, you thought they had they OWN place for drum corps fans to congregate and swap opinions? DCP IS the place. Facebook attracts angry blowhards looking for a platform to spew. DCP attracts drum corps fans who appreciate the discussion and the activity more than they expect to promote themselves. DCI never got that because they never trusted their fans to speak honestly. They want(ed) to limit all discussion to only positive and favorable comments. They forgot (or maybe intentionally ignored) that sunshine is a great antiseptic. Long-time posters here know better and, I believe, DCI does, too, despite their protestations.
    1 point
  9. I'm an old timer, and while I agree that music almost become a secondary consideration, I wouldn't want the pendulum to swing that far back. Gimme complex, fully developed music, and I'm a happy camper. I'm, still not entirely sure what the Cadets 2005 show "means", but dear God, that ballad is one of the most incredible things I've ever heard.
    1 point
  10. I'm pretty sure you will find strong DCI connections in every top BOA band. Keep in mind the top of BOA is maybe 5-20 bands in a country with how many high schools????
    1 point
  11. I've had the distinct privilege to be educated, this year, about the Midwest HS marching band circuit through the studied eyes of a member here, who has shown me how distinctly important design is to the whole competitive marching band circuit and how that fact distinguishes the circuits. I've seen some amazing bands and amazing styles; YouTube has only made it easier. IMO, I'm convinced, still, that nothing approaches drum corps in the level of execution that it attains. Nothing. To be concerned that DCI might be losing designers to HS band doesn't ring with me. I'd much more expect to see drum corps infiltrating the design of HS Marching Band, and I think the evidence that I'm right is abundant.
    1 point
  12. Ya' know, George, I've watched a bunch of shows and I just don't get your allusion that Top Instructors are "avoiding" DCI. I wonder (worry) if the Top Designers are infiltrating DCI and spreading WGI and DCA pablum on the "junior" leagues of the activity.
    1 point
  13. The sad thing, for those of us that weren't around, or weren't paying attention way back when is that we may never be able to go back and "look up" the '07 Colts, '72 Anaheim Kingsman or the '92 Velvet Knights in order to understand what you're talking about. If I wanted to see what was so great about any of these corps, I could not. Essentially, DCI history is gone, buried but for the memories of the diligent old-timers here. I'd love to know more about the history of DCI, but now, there's no way I could ever study it. Does anyone have any real information on... is there any real work being done on bringing back the DCI fan network video archives? Or, realistically , is this gone forever? p
    1 point
  14. George, most of Broken Arrow's staff has strong DCI connections the HUGE exception is Wes Cartwright (Program Coordinator, Guard) He was responsible for SCV '89 Phantom of the Opera design, and for whatever reason now does BA and consults with Texas bands. He is responsible for Broken Arrow and LD Bell's evolution to Grand National Champions in the 2000's.s In fact, I personally wrote George Hopkins asking him to try and get Wes Cartwright involved with Cadets. His design sensibility is what has gone missing with them in my opinon and that speaks to the point of your post. I don't know why he is not involved with DCI corps anymore. If I had to guess, it would be time commitments, travel, pay. The fact that maybe he is satisfied having worked on what so many consider the best show of all time in DCI (SCV '89). I don't think it is an issue with most designers "avoiding" DCI, just an individual case. Otherwise BA staff is DCI all stars: Jim Moore - (Bluecoats, SCV winterguard) choreographs the body movement - which really sets BA apart in my opinion, because it is so well done and musical. Leon May - (Carolina Crown drill writer) Writes the drill I know they have Cadets front ensemble people.
    1 point
  15. Just want to add my $0.02 on this topic. I've designed a number of synthetic turf fields. A few years ago everyone was in a panic over lead in the turf. Early versions of synthetic turf used lead in the green turf,to reduce fading. But it was "encapsulated", meaning that the only way it could be an issue was if someone ate the turf. It also turned out you needed to eat something like 150 lbs. of the stuff for it to be a concern. The CDC came out with a report saying this,but people still paniced. The current worry is "crumb" rubber. I can't find any objective study that shows any corelation between "crumb" rubber "infill" and players developing health problems. Given the number of fields that use this "infill", if it was as "dangerous" as some people say,there should be numerous,not isolated cases of cancer. Everybody is concerned about "crumb" rubber for athletic fields,but they have been using pretty much the same stuff (rubber muclh) on playgrounds for years. Kids roll around in that stuff and I've never read of any problems. The biggest problem I know about for "crumb" rubber is that it will get uniforms dirty.
    1 point
  16. Liked cuz I always wondered..... Was not with the Lancers when they made their one appearance so no idea of the background. Thread has gone into areas I didn't expect and lot of good information and opinions.... Always good to look ahead....
    1 point
  17. A couple of times it was over $2Gs, but usually between $1500 and 2000.
    1 point
  18. Answer to the subject line. It's not. Sorry. Not being a drum corps homer. I spent many more years in marching bands than in drum corps. But marching band just isn't at the same level as the majority of top 12 DCI corps. I do appreciate, though, that this band is great...for a HS band.
    1 point
  19. I know it doesn't really mean anything, but "Alma Gitana" actually holds the highest score in DCI Finals history for a twelfth-place show.
    1 point
  20. I have no merit to say if this was better show design than any of this year's finalists, but even I can tell it's better show design than the previous year's 12 place show (Crossmen- Alma Gitana, A Gypsy Soul). Lets hope we never have to see another show so dull make the Saturday night lineup.
    1 point
  21. Too bad Cadets didn't make finals after that. (Go back and read the OP).
    1 point
  22. I'd like to see another show I really love, like 2015, even if it takes fourth again. Much rather see that than a show I can't stand that takes first.
    1 point
  23. This band show is not designed better than any of the world class shows. None of them.
    1 point
  24. You're right, there are a lot of complicating factors. If the Blue Devils were only able to recruit high school age students from the Mount Diablo Unified School District (which includes Concord), could they find enough talented members to match those in the Broken Arrow Public Schools? There are more students in BD's district (which has six large high schools) than in BA's district (which has one enormous high school). Or could BD only recruit from one high school rather than one district? And then what about timing? If the two groups were to compete against each other, would it be in the summer with a full DCI camp and training regimen or in the fall, on the more limited scholastic band rehearsal schedule and with class obligations? (One thing that BD would not have to worry about if forced to start in parity with BA, I believe, is football games, because, if I have heard correctly, Broken Arrow H.S. actually has two marching bands: the Pride of Broken Arrow, who performs at competitions, and the Tradition of Broken Arrow, who performs at football games. If I have misunderstood, I welcome correction!)
    1 point
  25. Del made finals in 1974. Oakland Crusaders are the ones with theTom Float drum line that were tops in prelims while the corps came in 13th in 1977.
    1 point
  26. I think that's why the comedy worked so well. They added so much over the season as the corps was maximizing their fundamentals, that they could add the fun and it worked.
    1 point
  27. Argonne Rebels..... 1973... ( what a brass line )
    1 point
  28. Purple Lancers....... 1974 ( Corps that was way ahead of its time in brass, musical arrangements )
    1 point
  29. Guardsmen....... 1980 ( '"Tiger of San Pedro "... sop soloists that could soar on the G's )
    1 point
  30. Suncoast Sound....... 1989 .. " Florida Suite ".
    1 point
  31. Thanks bud. I feel like my work in entertainment has spoiled my ability to go to concerts and shows, because there's no magic to it for me. But hey, I can send you my thesis that helped me earn my grad degree in lighting design, its a lot of engineering jargon regarding color temperature and human perception, eye response, and how that influenced design choices in regards to a particular script. But, even for me, it's really great to put you to sleep at night. hahahaahah
    1 point
  32. 1992 VK. 2007 Colts. Would really like to see Colts back in there sometime soon.
    1 point
  33. Hawthorne Muchachos...... 1975 Prelims ( if you don't know about their 75 finals... don't ask )
    1 point
  34. False. I would rather 1st in one than 4th in all.
    1 point
  35. Geez... HERE'S TO HOPING CADETS HAVE AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC SEASON AND GREAT SHOW IN 2016!!!!
    1 point
  36. I don't want to criticize a HS band show. I want to say what I saw in the context of what this show does that seems to emulate what DCI has become, and thereby, make a critique of the state of modern DCI: Voice for the sake of voice. Check. Body movement for the sake of body movement. Check. Gratuitous rolling around on the ground. Check. Large clunky props that seem to be there. Without any purpose or addition to the story of the show. Check. Really, really good musicianship. Check. So what I saw was a REALLY good reflection of a modern DCI show. Better design than Phantom? Give me a break. But it does contain all the bad crap DCI has morphed into.
    1 point
  37. But how has it affected the brain? You know those "back of the bus" folks in drum corps, the ones the directors' are always a bit wary of.....
    1 point
  38. The Trop is an awful acoustic environment for the FMBC finals. Add 6-10 dB in volume for a DCI finalist and it just gets worse. No Thanks.
    1 point
  39. First let me defend these corps and their design teams. What they do isn't easy. The creative platform we know as drum & bugle corps is a combination of music, movement, color, dance, play acting, and more. Design teams are always trying to generate ideas, new ideas, often something refreshing or innovative. Things often look good on paper, but putting ideas on the field is truly demanding. I applaud those efforts, even when the show doesn't sparkle, perhaps loses it's connection from paper to performance and its' communication with the audience. The Blue Devils, masters of the judging sheets, haven't always connected with the crowd, and have won a few titles with shows that left many scratching their head. Now I loved this past summer's show, and I also loved 2014. 2012 and 2013 are forgettable for me. So if the correlation we're trying to draw is that more meaning = winning...well, I'm not so sure. Go back and watch drum corps from the late 70s and early 80s. Many shows didn't have a theme. The corps would play three or four fun charts to a fantastic visual program and people would LOVE it. Corps would stop and play concert numbers (standing still) and people would love it. Yes, shows are judged differently today, and the styles have changed; but entertainment is still the key, whether the theme be light and funny, dark, a deep storyline, a simple idea, or whatever. If you have a great story, like Phantom's 2008 production of Spartacus, then fantastic! If you can simply play four tunes and tie them into a show with fantastic visuals, much like The Cadets "Juxtaposition" show from 2001, then great. In 2003 the Cadets played throwback songs from bygone years -- Fanfare and Allegro [sCV], Malagena [Madison], and Rocky Point Holiday [Garfield]. The show had no theme that I could see other than a corps playing music from past years, two of which were made famous by other corps. They took 3rd place. Pretty good! The main thing is this: you have to make it work. In regard to Cadets 2015, they made the show work and placed top 4. Now, was it as effective as they would have liked? Probably not. The Blue Devils themselves had to tweak their 2015 show (Ink) a lot all the way up to Finals to make it work. Crown had to redo their ending and other sections to make it work, and it mostly did. Many still question the Dies Irae section and whether those changes were good or not. The Bluecoats in 2014 and 2015 came out with shows that I thought were HOME RUNS from the onset of the season. Tilt was just brilliant with almost no design flaws if you ask me. Kinetic Noise was the most modern show I've seen and I even liked the first ending better than the final ending. Tilt was a simple idea about movement that was weaved into powerful music and color. Kinetic Noise was more conceptual, with minimalist music driving visual ideas about sound, sound shaping, clusters, echoes, and using movement to shape those tonal ideas. Judges are NOT looking for themes, or deep meaning, or certain types of shows. That would be unfair. Judges only care that whatever you do, you do it well and sell it.
    1 point
  40. As a Florida resident, I'm thrilled drum corps is coming back down here....but if it rains here next summer as much as it did this summer I'm not sure any shows will actually take place. Either way, it sure beats driving aaaall the way up to Atlanta or Winston-Salem to catch a show!
    1 point
  41. Inspection was one of the annoyances that helped create DCA... having some dignitary (army officer or whoever) actually take points away from the field score was completely against everything we stood for... however, I'll give you that close up we sure looked good back then... what choice did we have? So no, DCA NEVER considered inspections. True story... one of the times I saw Vince Bruni with true fire in his eyes... 1972 Legion Nationals Chicago Soldier Field... we got on the inspection line and looked as the "officer" was about to inspect us and low and behold it was the recently retired Mr. Caballero Ralph Silverbrand being honored by the legion by making him the "inspector general" for the day... a quick smile and Vince could breath again - he got the message loud and clear... I believe he found 2 ticks and managed to find the same 2 ticks on Cabs... but for a few seconds... TENSION did exist... While every part of this is accurate... I've been accused of misleading you because I referred to 1972 Legion Nationals Chicago Soldier Field... and of course inspection was at prelims which was held at some high school... generally I refer to legion nationals 72 as soldier field... sorry if I didn't cross the t's and dot the i's the way everyone wishes... duh... picky picky
    1 point
  42. Rennick has already stated outright in an interview that SCV's keeping the cymbals. No need to worry. And as to the limited tambor thing...yes, that's true, but that argument could be extended to all marching percussion, and really, drum corps in general. The activity is an absurdity (not that it isn't awesome regardless). We aren't trying to achieve solely the best sound possible. If we were, we would be in a concert hall.
    1 point
  43. Well, if that is the case, marching snare drums also have a somewhat limited usefulness musically, compared to the wide variety of membrane sounds and timbres we can get from the front ensemble.
    1 point
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