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Is there anyone here who was at the BD sneakbpeak show Saturday night. Can you share some thoughts on what you saw and heard, please. I am dying for details!!!!!!!

Holy cow, yes... "A Don Ellis Portrait" was some phenomenal music/performance. That horn line was flat out sick, and the music was SO challenging, and they nailed it.

We were sworn to secrecy and made to sign NDAs at the gate. If I told you, I'd have to kiss you. (You read that right). Just kidding, I wasn't there.or was i?

BTW, I made those corps logo icons myself, so feel free to use them whenever.

Was literally about to say the same thing. Looking at the past few years, maybe some broad strokes thematically will be refreshing.

Maybe a bit vague of a show concept is a good thing. I'm tired of being beaten over the head with a theme.

I think Cavaliers are the most stable corps right now, but they've done some things in the off season that will hopefully address that... I certainly do NOT believe that they'll be 9th again any year soon, and they could easily go back 6th like they were 2 years ago, or even higher. 2015 was not a good year for them health-wise. They could have very well been in 6th. My reasoning for the stability issue lies in the math. Their range in scores over the last 5 years has been from 96.850 down to 88.325 ( 8.525 points), which is all over the place. Pretty much the definition of unstable. I would guess that Phantom will score higher this as well. Remember, they were 3rd a mere 4 years ago. The range in their scores over the last 5 years has been a rather unstable 90.325 - 96.550 (6.225). I think Bluecoats have proven themselves this last couple of years. I think they're definitely top 4 today. Their placements haven't been as stable as some corps, as they've placed from 7th - 2nd place, but the range in their scores over the last 5 years has been 92.550 - 97.175 (4.625 points), which is more stable than the two corps mentioned above. Over the last 5 years, SCV placements have been a stable 4th - 6th place. Their scores range from 96.850 - 92.200 ( 4.65 ) Over the last 5 years, The Cadets have placed 1st - 4th. Their range in scores over that 5 years has been VERY stable. They go from 98.350 to 95.050 ( 3.3 points). Even Crown's placement isn't that stable yet. They were 5th in 2014 ( with an INCREDIBLE show). Crown has been elite since 2007 though, so their scores have been very high despite their placements. Their range in scores over the last 5 years has been VERY stable (2nd most stable). Their scores range from 98.300 to 95.950 ( 2.35 points). The only other corps that is more stable in scoring is the Blue Devils corps. For comparison's sake, if one looks at Madison, they're stuck roughly in the 87 - 90 point range, which lands them between 8th - 10th place. That's actually pretty stable score and placements. BD is the most stable scoring and placing corps right now. Over the last 5 years, Blue Devils have placed either 1st or 2nd. Their range in scores over that 5 years has been extremely stable. They have scored from 99.650 to 97.650 ( 2 points). As GUARDLING stated in another thread, just one caption can cause big differences in placements from year to year. ( I'm paraphrasing). I personally believe that one of the more unstable corps, placement wise is the Blue Knights. Great outcomes for them the last two years with wonderful shows, but before that hovering around 9 - 11th. So in the last 5 years, they've placed between 6th and 11th place. They're currently on the upswing, but I think they're a wild card. If they come out swinging and place 4th or 3rd this year, that would STILL be unstable placements, but in a positive direction. They have scored from 91.850 to 86.700 ( 5.15 points). That's good for the 3rd most unstable scoring ranging of the corps listed here. The lesson here is that there are some corps who have stable placements from year to year, but unstable scoring from year to year. ( SCV, Bluecoats) Other corps, have unstable placements from year to year, but stable scoring. ( Carolina Crown) Some corps have both unstable placements and scores during the last 5 years ( Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Blue Knights) Then there's the Blue Devils who are stable in both scoring and placements. ( Ok, The Cadets are pretty stable on both fronts too). Anyway, pretty interesting stuff and partly hints at some things that are happening in real life regarding staff stability or lack thereof in certain corps and show design over that period in time.

A few things people forget IMO Being part of that top 5 ( not top 3 )does not mean inferior at all. At this level very little separates . Often a slip by 1 caption ( not a hot mess just a slip ) can mean several places. ALSO, moving up does not just mean getting better or that not moving up doesn't mean they are missing the boat so to speak. At this level it means someone else has to slip, not improve , a real miss. Chances are slim BUT not impossible. Funny how what some consider a failure would be an epic win for the next group. All relative I suppose. Exact same can be said of the bottom of finals and those trying to get in.

SCV's drill is some of the best in DCI. I know that doesn't really matter much anymore, but their drill and visual GE are more exciting for me than any other corps these days. Plus, I think JD's arrangements are spectacular. I really disagree with you on about every front. ...and being in 5th place and scoring in the 90s year in and year out is a fantastic place to be. I appreciate your view though, it's just completely opposite to my view about them.

Right. And people who didn't like Cadets 2012 just didn't understand that it was about Christmas.

There are some very bold predictions lately. Obviously most of us believe that BD/Crown/Cadets will contend, after that?? Anybody's guess. Hard to bet against last year's top six as all of those corps have their design teams pumping out incredible show after show, but ya never know. BRASSO and I for years have stated that Boston and BK both garner a lot of lower expectations from some over the years and both exceed that more often than not. I'm not sure bout Boston as I have no sources there, but I'd be willing to bet they'll be strong out of the gate. BK is fielding their most complete corps this summer and truly do not have a weak section- the vehicle I'm told is off the charts, what does it mean? There's potential, and a good vibe- translation- All of our picks are just that, fun, none of us know how it's gonna shake out, but I wouldn't think any finalist corps from a year ago moves up or down more than a spot or two. Just my humble opinion. WP

I find this talk of "the Cadets needing a fresh new visual design because it's been holding them back" stuff to be a bit odd -- as if they looked around as the season went on and after it ended and just knew that they NEEDED to make these drastic changes. Does anyone in their right mind think that had Jeff Sacktic not had the deeply personal ordeal going on with his wife's health (of which I'm extremely sympathetic) that he wouldn't still be writing the drill and putting the visual package together for the Cadets right now at this very moment? Of course he would, and people would be foolish to think otherwise IMO. ("Hey, Jeff, congrats on being inducted into the DCI Hall of Fame. Long overdue and well deserved! You're fired...") Now obviously, real life takes center stage over drum corps any day of the week, and nobody can fault Jeff for taking a step away at this time. At the same time, I don't blame anyone for being excited at an infusion of fresh talent on the visual design and instruction side of things because of it. I can understand and appreciate that. But it seems as if people keep making this leap of logic that they lost last year because of visual and decided that they needed to make all these massive changes, and that the role of what was happening in Jeff's life at the time didn't play an enormous role in those decisions. That's how I interpret those posts, anyway. Jeff Sacktic, as main visual design voice for this corps for so many years, was the least of their problems IMO, and had those unfortunate personal issues not come about (as they tend to do in all of our lives, whether we want them to or not), I can't envision any situation (given that he still wished to return) where they were looking to dump him in favor of a newer fresher visual design voice.

Been talking with my dad about his drum corps experience again and I'm not sure this is the right forum but I'll give it a shot. He marched one summer in 1956 with the LaPorte-Plymouth (Indiana) Drum and Bugle Corps. They were also known as the Sabres. This was an American Legion Post corps made up largely of WWII veterans with some Korean War vets. So they were a Senior Corps, but they allowed high school marchers into the senior corps that year and so a number of them went scouring area high schools. My dad was between his junior and senior year in high school in Bremen, Indiana and one of their neighbors was a member of the American Legion post over in Plymouth. This neighbor knew he marched snare in the high school band and asked if he'd be interested in marching their corps that summer. Dad didn't have much else to do so he joined up. They marched about 6 high school kids in the corps. It turned out to be a lot of fun for him of course! This was the days of calfskin drum heads so even a drop of rain in a parade meant being careful or you'd put your stick right through them. Dad ended up having to teach the drum line how to read sheet music for their show as the other guys were used to just laying down a cadence and marching. He was the only one in the battery who could read sheet music. They did a field show as well to compete in a circuit in the area. Their concert number was a popular Latin number, Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj64NlRnpDY) and they had a screamer who'd bring people out of their seats. Dad started the number with a four bar cowbell solo (!) which was rather controversial at the time as the judging panels hadn't seen a corps use a cowbell before. He remembers it drawing a judge into his face at every single show. He was taught to just ignore them and play on of course. There was one judge who got right into his face yelling, "WHAT IS THAT? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" at one point. He just played on. Hah! The director and judges got into an argument at every show over it but the director would just throw down the rule book and say, "Show me where it's illegal!" and win the argument. Dad said they were a crowd pleaser with that number but otherwise not overly competitive. He does remember competing on the circuit with the Boys of 76 out of Racine, WI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz2k_LJg2c) who went on to the American Legion finals. He's got tons of stories about the older guys getting the high school guys into trouble on their trips too of course. Good times and memories for him. He still likes watching DCI shows even in the modern styles but recalls the old days when they'd march off the line to the 20 then do a rotating company front to face the audience and then proceed through their show. We were digging through some old pictures today and found this gem.

DESIGNER'S TOOLBOX - SETUPS Consider how you convey the narrative platform of your show to your audience. How do audiences get what it's about? Is the concept intuitive? Does it require prior knowledge of history or knowledge of the music itself? How do you convey to your audience your point of view? The more information that the audience knows about the subject, the more they're likely to ride with you and enjoy the experience. In film, television, theater, advertising and marketing, there are tools that directors and producers use to help the audience identify the narrative platform of a show, including the who/what/where platform. In non-narrative programs, the designers create a subject matter simply from the pattern of movement or based on the understructure of the music itself. Here are some of the components that designers can use to help prepare the audience for the program, and to help them understand your theme and its progression: 1. SHOW TITLE - So much information about the production is conveyed in the show title. The title is announced as part of each performance. It's critical. The title reminds the audience in the moment about the subject matter, or the theme, and can even hint at the progression or the resolution/ending. The audience response to Felliniesque would have been different if audiences didn't know it was about him. They likely would have self-immolated. But with the announcement of the title, the show made perfect sense. 2. DIALOGUE/NARRATION - Narration is most loathed method of exposition in drum corps. Brief is better. Carolina Crown did it efficiently in one sentence. "Two lovers (who) sat (what) on a park bench (where) with their bodies touching each other." 3. ASSUMED/INTUITIVE BACKGROUND INFO - This natural information from our experience or knowledge helps fill in the blanks of the subject matter. Audiences have preconceived notions about space, Fellini, sound wave theory, or a shark and a fat lady singing. Our preconceived ideas help us prepare for what's likely next. Or if the show offers no preconceived ideas, that's a disadvantage. And no, it's not a hidden advantage. It just creates confusion in the audience's mind, and results in a low depth of concept score. The more relatable a theme is, and the more universally resonant it is, the bigger your depth of concept score-- even if your show concept is abstract. 4. REPETITION - In non-narrative, and even narrative shows alike, the pattern that you create sets the audience's expectations for what comes next. Cadet's repeating Z-pull move gave audiences all they needed to raise their expectations and satisfy them. Imagine the audience's reaction with a different ending. When an audience screams their heads off at a repeating move, it's because audiences feel like they get the pattern. Audiences crave understanding the pattern. When audiences can't tell where a dramatic action is going, they feel confused and separate from the performers. 5. EMBLEMS/SYMBOLS - Symbolism and pictures are worth a thousand words. Pictures of Paris sure helped Phantom define its location-based show. Imagine Phantom's show without the Paris panels to help inform the viewer and root the show in a specific location/ouevre. 6. MUSIC BACKGROUND INFO - The music itself has a history, reputation, and social commentary. The audience's knowledge of the music and the composer goes a long way to conveying your production's point of view. SCV's Phantom of the Opera show was rooted in the popular musical, and relieved their storytelling burden-- Santa Clara could have brought out pinatas and tequila and the show still would have made sense, based on everyone's prior knowledge of the show. 7. SEMIFINALS SHOW COORDINATOR SPIEL - This broadcast segment seen by thousands of corps fans and professionals alike is the corps' chance to fill in what the designers couldn't make clear with any other tool. This is the chance to add depth to the show concept, and convey its universal truth, which sometimes isn't obvious to the casual or first time viewer. 8. COSTUMES, PROPS - These components help convey not only the who/what/where platform, but also other clues about the production's point of view, timeframe, and social context. 9. FORM, SHAPE, PACING - In non narrative shows, these components help convey the show's pattern, progression and resolution. Drum corps old timers insist this is all you need. 10. SOCIAL MEDIA PROMOTIONS - Ancillary videos and web promotions help clarify your exposition and build your point of view. This component raises the personal stakes of your show and how it relates to the performers and designers as artists. This component raises the universal resonance of your show, and prevents designers from flaking out with comments like "And I’m talking until late March, we had no idea where it was going." Or " When we started the conversation about perspective, that’s how we got into the word tilt. " Story or no story, the show must mean something to you personally in order to raise the stakes and create a resonant depth of concept. The web is the best place to build and promote that resonance. Face it. Narrative tools or not, you've got to have a strong concept to start with-- a universal human truth or a resonant perception of life as we know it and how it relates to these marching members and to the audience now, in this place, tonight.

On Saturday May 22, 2016...... The Kilties were DONE!! The corps completed the remaining final visual piece to complete the corps' entire 2016 production titled, "The Gael". On Sunday the corps reviewed sets and segments of the show from "top to bottom", both visually and musically. The Kilties will now take the Memorial Day Weekend off so the membership of the organization can enjoy time with family and friends over the upcoming extended holiday. Arriving from Japan, the corps also welcomed their international membership this weekend! The Kilties next full corps camp will be on June 4th and 5th at Gilmore Middle School in Racine, Wisconsin. Yes, there are several performance opportunities that presently exist in each section; brass, color guard and percussion. Visit The Kilties website to inquire about existing opportunities. http://www.kilties.com "We Winna Be Dauntit!" ~Since 1934~

It was a rainy day today, listened to Rimsky-Korsakov and thought of SCV. When I listen to Eli's Coming, I think of Kilties. I listen to a CD of Henry V and think of SCV and once in a while I dust off my 'A Little Night Music' record album. For decades, SCV and other drum corps had introduced me to music. I didn't know this until recently. The DCP music corps should do thread is great. Thank you. In recent years, SCV has been one of a few drum corps that I watched multiple times to find yet another wonderful moment or movement I didn't hear or see the first time. There's staging, flow, transition, musicality, punctuation; don't blink. Multiple viewings equals good design and presentation. Keep up the good work SCV. Looking forward to a wonderful 2016 season. edit: example - SCV 2013 cool drill, unison guard, no dancers around soloists, props at back, awesome drum line, a story, dynamics, expression, recognizable music and more!

This is how you squash rumors of what's going on at Cadetland. Go check them out for yourself. Their rehearsals are open to everyone who wants to attend and George has to be the most transparent director giving you inside snippets of what's going on with the corps. Here's the deal ladies and gentlemen the percussion line is solid (again), the hornline is strong as ever, Kristy and Joe taking over the Cadet guard will be the best decision George would have made in getting the Cadets guard back to where they belong. As far as Jeff Sacktig taking some personal time off and Darryl Perberton writing the drill will be just fine. I have heard him talk about the design of the 2016 visual package and I'm on board. So where does that leave the Cadets for the upcoming season? My guess is that the Cadets will be very good. See you at the first show in Indy. Irving Fan of the Arts

My official predictions as of today: 1. Blue Devils 2. Bluecoats 3. Cadets 4. Carolina Crown 5. Blue Knights 6. Cavaliers 7. Santa Clara Vanguard 8. Boston Crusaders 9. Phantom Regiment 10. Madison Scouts 11. Blue Stars 12. Troopers

I was and I remember, it just seems INCREDIBLY vague right now. I'm really looking forward to the music, just not sure what to expect thematically even with this. Honestly as long as I can listen to them and get that Phantom magic from them again that has been missing for me since 2011, that doesn't matter.

I just want to hear what Will Pitts has got! I bet it's going to sound really good with him at the arranging helm! I agree with you, the theme does sound a little generic.

Maybe my mind isn't grasping this properly but can he not compare years in this place? If he uses BD as the base with a 2 point stability range, then every corps would be ranked relative to BD. So Crown would be said to be +.35, for example. Since every corps has competed in each of the years mentioned, and we are using the ACTUAL ranges relative to one corps, I think it would be valid to compare corps as they were all being judged the same way in each of the years that his analysis was using.

I can feel the love... Crown does personal body movement like no other corps, including The Blue Devils and certainly the Cadets. That "poorly designed program" from Crown is one of my favorites shows of the last 5 years. I love both corps, but this came across as over the top. Amusing to see things heating up so early in the season already.

I think 2012 Blue Stars is very underrated. That hornline could play but Rosander drill hurt the score. I believe they should have been in finals with that show.

Bluecoats have garnered extremely high GE scores with low depth programs in terms of THEME. I think the depth from Bluecoats comes with how much layering they have going on musically and even visually IMO. There is never just one thing going on. You don't have to read Shakespeare or be familiar with Dantes Inferno to get it but I'd be shocked if anyone catches every single little thing they do in one sitting. If that thematic depth argument was true they wouldn't have done so well, especially in GE the past two years. I really don't think thematic depth is necessary, if you don't have it there, you better make sure your drill and music are not also face value and have tons of layer and effect built in or it doesn't work. I think simple concept can still work, you just sure as hell better make sure you have no weakness and flesh the crap out of it. To tie it back to this thread......IMO, seems like Cadets are doing a little of both this year with their guard and choice of music. I think that's a great thing.

I like this approach to look at it. It's not that the Cadets are designing bad shows, it's just that they're not designing the right kind of shows. Today's DCI demands much more depth to the concept behind the show in order to garner GE points (which is why I am still puzzled over GE scores for 2014 Bluecoats). Simple and well-executed drill is not good enough, and when it comes to integrating guard with the corps and show concept, Crown and BD are king.

Joe Bananas wore that same winter jacket winter AND all summer!...lol

From the beginning of Chis H. tenure after last season, he and others have mentioned the importance of starting the season more prepared.

Lol, your statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Besides, they are in spring training and if what you say is remotely true, they still have all of spring training as well as the rest of the season to make the appropriate changes to it.

What? PR 2011's rendition of Elsa's seems to be pretty universally loved. As for 2012 Nessun Dorma, most people prefer the original, I'm not one of those people.

Ah, you see 2012 was the first year I started following drum corps, and that company front was one of the reasons I fell in love with vanguard!

Here's my question: What's the most successful instance of a corps bringing back a classic after 10+ years? The one that first comes to mind to me is Madison Scouts 2010. I thought they actually did Slaughter justice there (2004 and 2009 Malaga, not so much). And of course Santa Clara's most recent Appalachian Spring. Phantom Regiment 2011- 2012 fell flat for me, with Nessun Dorma and Elsa's, and same with Cadets 2009 West Side Story. What are some others?

Thanks George. Your eloquence has upped my rambling once again.

To quote Cartman, "Well I'm a badazz cowboy livin' in the cowboy days. Wiggy wiggy scratch yo yo bang bang."

Hmmmmm? If one agrees 200% when rationally 100% is the highest limit possible; does that leave the extra 100% as a carry-over floating inventory to apply towards other opinions? It's somewhat like when you ask a person "a penny for your thoughts?" and they offer you their "2 cents worth"-------------do you owe them a penny back? Man, life is confusing. As my Mother would fondly say to the kids, "Your better start behavin' or I'll cut off your head and throw it in your face!!"

Worried about the props. When have Cadets' props not been dire? Last year I was worried about those boxes in June and people #### near ran me out of DCP. Come finals...still big gaps and awkward movement...

BAC's new Jupiter brass instruments were taken out for a test run today to see how they might do in competition this summer. Picture : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209656497512181&set=gm.1064834560231396&type=3&theater

Oh, I totally agree on that Glassmen show, One of my 2007 favorites, for sure.

1. Blue Devils 2. Cadets 3. Crown 4. Santa Clara 5. Bluecoats 6. Phantom Regiment 7. Cavliers 8. Madison 9. Crossmen 10. Blue Knights 11. Blue Stars 12. Troopers 13. Colts 14. Boston Crusaders 15. The Academy 16. Blue Devils B 17. Vanguard Cadets 18. Oregon Crusaders 19. Genesis 20. Mandarins 21. Pacific Crest 22. Spirit of Atlanta 23. Music City 24. Cascades 25. Pioneer

Blue Stars 2010. That show definitely deserved to be 7th...maybe, just maybe, pushing 6th. They were definitely better than SCV on finals night, even though the judges thought otherwise.

Your 2016 Blue Devils Drumline

Completely agree with you. Every year the Cadets have the raw talent and sheer power to win a title. However, the design team has not consistently kept up with the corps and their placements have suffered. For some reason recently, Cadets' design has especially flawed on even years which I find really interesting and wonder why that is. I'll remain hopeful that the Cadets' design teams pulls through and delivers a show that is more nuanced than hitting someone over the head with the number 10 over and over again. If they can design a show like BD, they'll win this year.

Have to agree with this. If there's an area of inconsistency with The Cadets over the past decade, it falls to their design. When they hit it, it's out of the park and they take home a ring. When they don't, we get 20 yard paint-by-number portraits and Christmas present slides on the field. Provided they can stay away from some of the more sophomoric, literal, and obvious design elements with this show, they should remain competitive. But when you are going up against corps like the Blue Devils who consistently fire on all cylinders from a brass, percussing, guard, AND design standpoint, you cannot miss a single step.

We agree. I thought The Cadets ( for example ) had their best combined talent in both Brass and Drums last season in their history. thats right in their HISTORY. Thats how good they sounded in both Brass and Drums to me last season. They were outstanding. But in their perennial pecking order, other corps were stronger a bit in the areas that really matter now on the newly revised scoring sheets from a couple of years ago, and the adults in these other Corps around them gave their Corps a bit more that was needed in the areas that matter.... especially the last 2 weeks of last season. Thus, The Cadets fell out of medaling last season primarily due to that, imo.. However , that was last season, and this season, even if Cadets are not as performer talented in Brass and Drum talent compared to last season, the Cadets still could move up in placements if these non Drums & non Bugles ( Brass ) performance areas in their Corps are improved upon over last season. I'm hearing they HAVE addressed and improved upon these areas ( from Cadet honks however ), so really only time will tell us if The Cadets have what it takes in these critical areas they need to improve upon to position themselves to get back to medaling again.

Here are 2 from 1988 Suncoast Sound - came in 10th with their show "Symphonic Dances for the Contemporary Child" (all original compositions by Robert W. Smith). The show was 20 years ahead of it's time in theme and design. Absolutely stunning. It was so different from anything else that the crowd just sort of sat there stunned, not quite believing that what they were looking at was even drum corps. Velvet Knights - came in 8th with "Magical Mystery Tour - Part II". '92 VK is usually the corps that gets mentioned, but I think '88 was just as good. The soprano line in Zorba was off the chain. As for humor, I don't think the bullfight in Malaguena has ever been topped (I might give the fat lady in '92 a tie). The star-spangled ending is the whipped cream and cherry on top.

VOReason!!! Good to see you back on here. How was your winter at the Sunshine Home for the Crass and Tasteless?

This is huge news. Imagine any corps handing out dot books to members, and getting the drill-learning process started, at an early camp rehearsal!!! And having veterans helping out rookies!!! Imagine a corps... any corps.... being that busy!!!! This is so far ahead of the curve.... well... this corps just might end up being one of the top units in DCI this year!!! Sorry... just indulging my cynical side a bit today.

Of course, for everyone's Oldie, there is someone even older who wants an even older Oldie. Where is the weeping and gnashing of teeth for poor Hildedard of Bingen's music?

I had a guy on reddit tell me that they played some Pat Metheny at one of the audition camps. However, he said he's not sure if it was show material or not. This is the song he said they played: https://youtu.be/y0TQjzlMDIc Seems to be right up their alley in terms of being both contemporary and technically challenging, so it's possible!

Heard some of the source music, and its already stuck in my head. This is gonna be a great year for bloooo