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Clearly biased because you weren't hanging crusader molding.

OMG, who F-ing cares?? I taught the Glassmmen hornline back when they first made finals. Of course I wished they'd all stay, and I taught them about loyalty and building their own brand. Most did. But the few that went on to higher-placing corps remained my friends, and I was very happy for them. My first go-round with Bluecoats brass (2006-2011) saw similar things, except the retention was much higher. Again, for the 1-2 members who switched (and not always higher!), we remain friends and I was happy for them. Then I taught SCV 2012-2015, and back at Bloo in 2016, where I met one member taking the corps switch to a new level: three years of SCV, then 2016 at Bloo, and this year at BD. I'm certainly going to miss her, after investing 4 years in her drum corps development, but I don't begrudge her one bit. I wish I had done the same thing! In fact, fundamentally, if we were to REALLY put the member first, we'd ENCOURAGE corps switching, just for the sole purpose of learning the diversity of ideas out there.

The IRS considers donations to a general scholarship fund to be deductible as long as it's shown that the class of those eligible to receive those scholarships is broad (and not pre-selected). A member sponsorship, where a specific individual benefits from the support, would be considered a personal gift, rather than a donation to the charity. It's the same difference as between donating to a local food pantry (which is deductible, as long as they're a recognized 501(c)(3)) and buying a specific homeless person a cheeseburger (not deductible). The end results might be similar, but the mechanics are different.

And that was one of the areas of law I was referring to (anti-trust) which makes me believe that a court would throw out any clause (clearly or ambiguously written) which demanded a pay-back of the scholarship for one year based upon the choice of marching in future years.

Self-awareness is a good first step.

Good gosh, I keep peeking into this thread today and I still see dumb comments from DCPer's, who seem to have abandoned all logic. I implore you all who are trying very hard to make this a BAC vs Crown thing to knock it off. It isn't that; no matter how hard you try to make it look like that. What it IS, is an issue about the validity of language and a financial demand stemming from a "scholarship". Which in and of itself should be fairly clear cut, but apparently this particular one MAY or MAY NOT have a stipulation requiring a long term commitment. THAT has several other ramifications. What for certain is NOT KNOWN, are the details of the contract the MM signed and the scholarship offered. What is NOT known is the language and if there is anything binding the two documents to one another. So all the BS being spewed forth by DCPer's saying the BAC should shut up and pay the fees owed need to understand; NO ONE, not one person on this thread had provided any conclusive evidence of a contract or scholarship. No copy of a document to show if there is a custom contract or a DCI standard contract. No one has provide even language of a contract or scholarship, to prove what the MM commitment was or if money is actually owed. DCPer's being adamant there is money owed need to PROVE their contention. They haven't yet and can't but they can keep itching for an argument as they have been throughout this entire thread. Ridiculous statements like "these kids need to read their contracts and know and fulfill their commitments and pay up". Grab hold of reality and review a contract with a kid and you'll realize they are kids. easy for us adults to lay the blame on a kid who supposedly didn't read a contract. Has anyone here ever signed a contract to discover there was a clause that didn't favor you in any way? This IS a bigger issue that begs clarity. First how does a scholarship for a youth activity is demand payment scholarships when someone moves to another organization. Were SERVICES RENDERED for the past competitive year that the MM did in fact fulfill? If it were my kid and a corps tried to demand payment for a scholarship, I'll see you in court and I'll sue your butt off. If the corps demanded payment for fees owed per the contract, I'll send you a check. No question those fees are owed. And I don't think anyone has been contesting that; so again get your information right. For the record and if I read this correctly, the Executive Director of BAC called CC and asked if the MM in question owed any fees to CC. He was told there was a revoked scholarship money was owed. That is part of the story that has been downplayed in this firestorm and is an integral part of the question about scholarships. So unless you know specific details, stop spewing all you "know" about what occurred/transpired, because you like me and everyone else on this thread, KNOWS NOTHING FOR CERTAIN about the contract and scholarship and who owes who what. Thanks for indulging me and now back to my beer. Hope you all are having one as well. If so, heres to you.

Now that was a great game. Tom and the Pats are from another PLANET.

2016 Santa Clara Vanguard

Scouts 2001

Blue Devils 1996. Up close and personal... and LOUD. Madison Scouts 1975.... that huge hit to start "Slaughter" from a mile away on the back sideline.

This is absolutely correct. If a donor gives money to a non-profit, either with the stipulation that it be used to pay for a particular activity, or that it is meant for a particular season, then the accountants consider that money to be "temporarily restricted", either for "purpose" or for "time". In the former case, it doesn't become "unrestricted" until the organization undertakes the requested activity, and if the organization does not do so, the donor should be repaid. (There are also "permanently restricted" gifts, e.g., for an endowment.)

This is in my opinion no different than when others had to read (several times I might add) your hypothetical conversations over and over again.

As long as the donor is kept in the loop, I'm down, cuz the donor created the condition NOT THE CORPS. (This not a subtle thing, but it's being glossed over.) technically the donor should get that money back!

Just thought it'd be fun to drum up some discussion on World Classes newest member. I think they bring a really fresh voice, they seem to trend towards darker shows although their announced 2017 show seems a bit brighter in nature. Always really powerful, aggressive, and not at all afraid to take on a really difficult program. I first saw them back in 2011 with the dark circus show which was easily one of my favorite Open Class shows that year, really fun and twisted take on the cliche circus music stuff. I loved their take on Phantom of the Opera, I thought it was really fresh but still made their own mark on something that's hallowed ground in DCI. Last years visual program was spectacular and incredibly powerful musically.

Phantom 1984...go check it out.

Congratulations to Matt Ryan for his NFL regular season MVP and his Atlanta Falcons for their Divisional Championship. But Tom Brady and his New England Patriots were on a mission this season unlike any other. This was so inspirational an effort. It was an unprecedented comeback that any sports fans should just tip their hat too. It also... imo... solidifys Tom Brady as the greatest QB that ever lived. " Welcome Home Tom ". Take that sucka ( 4th Super Bowl winning Championship Trophy ) home to Boston !!

I'm glad tesmusic brought that one up I had forgotten about it.

That is very true. But that problem can be abated by having camera operators and producers that know the activity and what to look for. FloMarching obviously did not. The detail of shot selection and timing everything perfectly won't be like it is when TB and crew are doing DCI shows. But it would be better than FM where they would do a 20 second long closeup of a kid playing rack in the front ensemble or linger on a guard member doing an equipment change behind a prop.

Go Falcons

However, as far as I know, this whole idea about Crown's scholarship policy (which we actually haven't seen other than a reference in an email) being affected by donor intention was was just a hypothetical proposed by garfield early in this discussion. It's quite possible that Crown put this policy in place for other reasons entirely.

I'm looking forward to seeing it, I think they have the potential to move into the teens if they have a REALLY good year.

the force is strong with this one.

You're correct. You're no lawyer.

If, as you say, this is actually a tin-foil raiding conspiracy using the MM's as pawns, it's quite amazing that we haven't heard some similar planted "Me,too!" comments from ex-Cadets members now accepting contracts from BAC. Maybe we won't. Yours is a sad perception of the leaders of the activity; I don't think a single one of them would use their kids as pawns to punish the leadership of another corps that out-foxed them. Maybe I'm naive.

Average DCP User in Cadets thread for first time to Average Cadets Thread Poster: "It's so dreary here. Let's go" Average Cadets Thread Poster: "We can't." Average DCP User: "Why not?" Average Cadets Thread Poster: "We're waiting for A Show Title."

Cincinnati Tradition had 28 brass at our last camp.

This gets really hard for me from 5th - 10th. I wouldn't be surprised to see the really tight grouping that was 7th - 9th (Blue Knights, Phantom Regiment, Blue Stars) in 2016 expand up and down some. I don't see a ton of reason to move any of them down any and could see more than a few below them move up.

I see what you did there.

I'm rooting for Atlanta...

There are lots of reasons to "switch sides." Drum corps of today isn't what it was. I've seen people change corps to get a different perspective so that they'll be better educators, for example, or to follow staff they really like if that staff member happens to get hired by a different group. There's also usually a trickle up to the top corps because if you're 20 and want to keep marching, chances are that the corps you started with isn't really challenging you as much as you'd like. Bottom of the pack corps tend to have easier material and younger kids. Nothing wrong with that, it's just how it is. Older folks move up to be with their peers and to be given material that reflects their skill level.

More strong corps would definitely be a good thing.

"Switching Sides": Don't know much about "Today", but I DO KNOW that "Back in the day", "Corps hopping" (Or "Ring Chasing") was not the norm. Travel "Back Then" was not what it is now. People DID change sides, but in the main, (Since most of the corps were actually "Local") you pretty much stayed the course unless the corps folded or you were kicked out. Elphaba

I fully support it.

Laudable, I'm certain. To each his own. If my loyalty is to the corps and not, necessarily, a particular kid then my first priority is the health of the corps. That might include desiring to stimulate longevity of its members. Placing a restriction requiring loyalty to the corps by the recipient is perfectly appropriate. The ED has the choice to accept the gift or not based on his ability to find a recipient willing to commit to multiple year's of loyalty to the corps. Disingenuous? What right do we have to call a loyal corps supporter any names at all?

BC retired his number this year. he came for the ceremony.

First, thanks very much for your support of the activity over the years. My story is very similar to yours. I'd like to ask you to direct a link to the tax code that separates out sponsorships and scholarships to non-profits. That I've never seen a distinction doesn't mean it doesn't exist but, considering your claim is substantially based on it, I'd like to know your source. AFAIK, no one here has made a contention that the donor get his money back but, rather, the donor has a right to make restricted donations and expect the ED to use them as directed. Restricted and unrestricted contributions are posted on two, separate lines of the financial documents for a reason. There's also a fiduciary responsibility for the ED to treat his donor's money with extreme care. I would think the donor might have a significant legal claim against a NP that ignores his desires, but I'm attorney and I would suspect that most donors would simply choose to not trust that decision again. I appreciate your passion, and maybe Crown will not any longer accept restricted contributions. Doesn't seem like a very good business decision to me, but perhaps you're right.

Nice use of vocabulary as well as the general understanding of accounting principles. However, as things pertain here, CC made a conscious decision to invoke a contract clause because a former member from last summer's Corps was found to have made a spot in another DCI Corps, thus triggering ( in their CC's view ) the " Scholarship to Payment on Demand Conversion Bill " to its former marcher(s) and parent(s). There would be no " bad debt " issues for CC in this specific instance, nor any unusual " accounts receivable " issues here for CC either, had the former CC marchers left CC and DCI entirely at the conclusion of last summer.

No we haven't seen the contract - which can be considered the important part.

You're starting with the premise that the fees were doubled and we don't have that here (based on known details). I wonder if it went down like this: The Boston Crown's fee is $3,500. Fabulous trumpet-player can't afford it. ED calls a donor and asks for $2.500 donation to help a kid march. Said donor agrees but puts stipulation on the gift that the kid must agree to march at the Boston Crowns for XX years (more than one). ED asks member, who quickly agrees. Member gets "scholarship", owes $1,000, pays $500, and marches the season. Season ends and Mr. Fabulous Trumpeter goes with some buddies to audition at the Carolina Crusaders, knowing he owes money to the Crowns, and gets a contract. He never pays his remaining fee to the Crowns. ED of the Crusaders follows DCI policy and contacts the Crowns about FT's outstanding debt. As of that moment, FT owes the $500 plus the $2,500 gift he got to march at the Crowns. I don't see anything wrong with this scenario. Particularly the lesson the FT learns about putting on his big boy (purple) pants and living up to the obligations he signs his name to or, IMO, on which he shakes the other's hand in agreement.

SPIN

They'll do an angels vs. demons kinda thing with half the corps being Hamilton and the other half being Burr.

I am surprised by this speculation as over the years I've known Crown kids who have marched their next seasons with BD, several others with Cadets, another with Cavaliers who announced mid season that the person was being awarded a scholarship to pay his way in the arts in the many forms he was involved. Likewise there have been kids who left BD, Cadets, and other corps to march Crown. Sometimes directors mutually accept each others transfer MMs (I'll take yours, you take mine) and work out back due monies on a case by case basis. But just as MMs change, so do administration and corps financial standings. I comment because part of how I know this info is from previously supervising several drum corps scholarship funds, most now defunct, one which awarded to applicants who marched in 8 different DCI world class corps . One fund was super specific as the donors specified the corps and put contingencies that the money was to be used for college tuition and/or marching with that corps only otherwise the monies would have to be repaid. Several situations developed where recipients changed their corps affiliation; only once did a person not repay those funds and has not marched since. In fact, most recipients as older adults later replenished the funds through their own donations. I also was a participant in the original two DCI Rule congresses with their conversations which debated and then crafted the corps transfer policy. Most of that policy is still in effect 45 years later. What is different is that written contracts between corps and members, particularly in their legal aspects, is fairly new within the past twenty years of drum corps. Those contracts vary by State law where the various corps are based. Additional stipulations vary from corps to corps. Perhaps it is time for DCI to revisit or devise anew a standard contract with common understandings and definitions which could be applied for use by any corps. The matter of scholarships is not the same and is different in each example and jurisdiction. That more specific common language, definition, and mutual understanding is needed would be appropriate for each corps but could also benefit the full activity.

One of the educational things we learned on this thread is that the 99% of DCP'ers that were against " transfer policies " that would impede marchers movement between Corps are learning that least one ( there are others too ) top DCI Corps already has a pretty restrictive " transfer policy" in place for its marchers. Yes, i realize that its couched in a " Scholarship to Payment on Demand Conversion Bill" kabookie format, but make no mistake, it dam sure is a hook on the marcher in attempts to keep them in their Corps. We know this because the only way the " Scholarship to Payment on Demand Conversion Bill " future clause is triggered is when the marcher secures a spot in line with another DCI Corps. The " scholarship " monies need not be payed back to the Corps if the marcher leaves DCI altogether. Only if a " transfer" is made by the marcher to march another DCI Corps. SO... if it looks like a duck... if it quacks like a duck.. if it walks like a duck... guess what ? its a duck. And if this does not have all the trappings of an indirect, restrictive " transfer policy ", then I really don't know what more to tell ya, folks.

I'm kind of scared at the outrage that might ensue if FloMarching picks up DCI and the quality is anything like it was for BOA. That's gonna be apocalyptic on here.

I predict a soothing ointment will soon be applied to the burn. And then...

All I can think of is Broken Arrow HS 2016. LOL

I think there is reason to anticipate/be excited about everyone...... Bluecoats - I've been a fan since they gave me my first live drum corps experience in 2009. It's been an uphill downhill rollercoaster but the last three years have been nothing short of amazing being a fan of them. Again and again they put out a show that seems to hit everything I love about drum corps. Every year they are supposedly getting stale, the competition will be too much, the shows just don't have enough in them to finish well...and yet they keep on climbing. They keep finding a way to refine, perfect, and evolve their craft. But I'm excited to see them for the real reason that matters, win or lose, I know I can always count on them for a show that will entertain, interest, and excite me. Success isn't only defined by a championship, but by the impact you have on the audience and they've packed a helluva punch for awhile now. I don't see that stopping. Blue Devils - They're absolute masters at their craft. If I don't love their show I can at least respect the hell out of it and am always in awe of what they seem to attempt and achieve every single year. I haven't been a huge fan for 2 years now but that doesn't diminish the fact that they're an amazing corps, organization, performing ensemble, people, and whatever other measure you wanna throw out there. And an anniversary year? Hell yeah. Carolina Crown - One word. Brass. If there is a corps I can always count on for some amazing musical moments it's Carolina Crown. I'm very interested in how their staff shake ups change their approach. I think it's a great time for them to refresh their identity a little bit. Santa Clara Vanguard - In terms of drum corps history this is one of my favorites form every decade. Last year they gave us an incredibly beautiful and accessible show that was a fan favorite in pretty much every circle. Their brass continues to improve leaps and bounds and the Rennick's just keep on being absolute masters of their craft. Throw a huge anniversary on top of that and I can't help but feel like we are in for something incredibly special in 2017. The Cavaliers - Last year was the first time in about 5 years where the Cavaliers felt like the Cavaliers in all regards again. That incredibly entertaining swagger, fantastic visual program, incredibly entertaining guard, fantastic drums, and an incredibly cohesive show that had audiences laughing and screaming on their feet at the end. They seem to have reset, and if that's the first year of that reset I cannot wait to see what they have up their sleeves next. The Cadets - They feel like they're in the middle of a metamorphosis right now. And even if last years show design kinda flopped, I couldn't be any more excited to see where they head next. If there is a corps I'm incredibly perplexed by for the upcoming season, it's them. Blue Knights - While last year was a bit of a miss for me personally that doesn't change the fact that in 2014 and 2015 they gave me some of the most emotional, beautiful, unique, fresh, and exciting drum corps in my time as a fan. Their approach to every aspect of a show now is so distinct and recognizable, and when a corps reaches that level of knowing who and what they are and what they want to portray some pretty amazing things seem to always happen. That's exciting. Phantom Regiment - There were hints of greatness last year, and in bringing in a visionary like Cartwright along with some great changes that were implemented the previous year like Will Pitts I can't help but wonder what kind of show we will be getting. This corps has the members, talent, and emotional punch every year, they just need a guiding voice and show that can channel that into some of that old Phantom Regiment magic. Blue Stars - Another corps I've been in love with since my introduction to the activity......and they're bringing the old gang back together in terms of design. Sullivan and Ford mixed with a master educator/brass caption head, amazing percussion staff that has had years of success, and the absolutely bonkers/wild/incredibly brave work in the guard caption and I can't help but feel like they're going to be the corps that I fell in love with back then, but in a new way with new staff members working with them on the performance side of things. They rebounded from a slight stumble in 2015 last year, and I don't see that stopping. Crossmen - My favorite show from them in years last year. They've developed some fantastic consistency across all captions, and their show last year was incredibly fresh and exciting despite my major doubts prior to the season. It was streamlined, seamless, and incredibly accessible. I feel like their members are ready for a show that's another few steps above that one even. I can't wait to see what they do. The Academy - Another corps I've always loved, their ascent from 2014s incredibly entertaining and cute show, to 2015s incredibly accessible and entertaining Mary Poppins portrayal, to last years incredibly emotional and perfectly designed for that membership show, it's been a helluva journey to watch. It's that 3 year ascent that makes me think they won't just be a flash in the pan. And while I can understand worries about them topping such an amazing show, the direction of Michael Townsend, Klesch, and their other amazing creative minds has put those worries to rest for me. Another corps that seems to have found their niche and is blossoming and exploding as a result of that. Boston Crusaders - In my time on DCP there were three names I and seemingly everyone would always look forward to in terms of their work. Gino. McNutt. Townsend. Over their tenure at their previous homes they gave us incredibly powerful, articulate, and just #### loud brass. Amazingly clean, rudiment-ally proficient, and hauling ### like no one else beats. And incredibly emotional, clean, and inspiring guard moments. I don't know why them moving somewhere else seems to have diminished that in the eyes of some, but I could not be any more excited to see what their collective mind will come up with. And the fact their teaser they released seems to implicate a show of......darker themes? They have me eating out of my hands in anticipation. Combine with that a membership last year that clawed their way into what seemed like an impossible position? That's a dangerous combination. Madison Scouts - If there is a corps everyone can count on to flat out entertain them, make them scream, and just is impossible not to love it's the Madison Scouts. What happened last year sucked, it would for anyone. But I'm confident in their staff hires this off season and I think they'll be just fine. If there is a corps I know will not sell out just to earn a few extra tenths it's these guys. Keep being you. Everyone loves it. Troopers - They've been right on the cusp for 4 years now. Of finals. In every other regard they're a massive success. Last years show was incredibly bold and outside their comfort zone but worked so well. While it might not have reached finalist status I dare you to find me more than a few shows that reached the level of emotional impact that closer did. I'm always excited to see the Troopers. Much like the Madison Scouts they're hard not to love. Colts - While last years more serious and reserved show didn't do a ton for me I absolutely loved the musical moments they created. Really great guard and brass combined with some great drill made for a show that despite its flaws had tons to love in it. I'm very interested in where they go next year. Mandarins - Their last few shows have been incredibly well designed for where the corps is at as a membership collective. I'm not surprised at all last year they broke a corps scoring record. The show was incredibly cohesive, their brass and drums brought the musical side of that show to life, and that color guard is one of the most improved sections in all of drum corps as of 2016. The designers seem incredibly in touch with what this corps is capable of, and that can only lead to great things. Oregon Crusaders - Bold. Exciting. Not cliche. They're risk takers. Those uniforms and that combination of music last year? But it worked so much better than I think people thought it would. They always amaze me at their musical power and infectious performance energy. Their shows are so fresh and exciting. And their annoucned rep. for 2017 floors me. I cannot wait to see what they do. If they can just kick up the visual side of things a notch we'll have a new name in the conversation for finals because they're there in most other areas. Pacific Crest - After a few years of uncertainty they did exactly what they needed to do last year. They picked a theme that was simple and had tons of possibilities, and executed it fantastically. I really thought they were under appreciated and even a little under scored last year. No weaknesses and they rebounded back after a pretty dismal 2015. I can only see them improving. Spirit of Atlanta - After a lot of off season uncertainty last year they chose to do a smaller tour and be smart about what they were doing. They did a show that was incredibly distinctive of their heritage and just entertained us. It wasn't the best, cleanest, or best designed show but it was entertaining as heck and the members looked like they were having a blast doing it. I think with some direction they could have a hit of a show. Seattle Cascades - They continue their "New Cascades" ascent. This is another corps that seems incredibly in touch with what their members are capable of and how to design a show around that. 2016 was no different, pushed the members, and they delivered. They have a strange knack for making me love music I should be absolute sick of hearing on the field. They're fresh, in touch with who they are and what they can do, and I expect that to continue in 2017. Jersey Surf - I wasn't a huge fan of last year but they seemed to mature quite a bit in many areas last year. I hope that continues in 2017, and I hope they find their voice. When they do like 2012 magic can happen. Pioneer - While the numbers may not show it I think they've made huge progress the last two years. Their guard has really developed very well, the shows are more cohesive and better designed than other recent offerings, and their captions are improving. It's tough battling an exploding Open Class but I think they've made huge strides in 2015 and 2016. Genesis - I couldn't be more excited that they're in world class. Short of winning they're so ready not just as a corps but as an organization, there are more measures of a corps and organization than numbers. I love their programming and approach to show design, it's incredibly exciting and powerful and they are starting to match that in the performance captions as well. Their announced show for this year provides some incredibly interesting mixes of music and will certainly not just be another generic show. Welcome, and I hope this move gives them a push to that next level that they've been oh so close to. Open Class - They continue to explode in quality, size, and as organizations as well. Last year they had a field of incredibly entertaining, proficient, and just fantastic shows that were among my favorites across all categories. I can't wait to see what they do in 2017 as well.

Dear Lord : Please forgive those who post on here their open letters to anonymous people they do not know, and who know not them. They mean no harm in their open letters to anonymous people. Yes, we realize they used this site to avoid postage stamps too. But they are simply expressing their frustration that the same corps win all the time, and I'm sure even you Lord find vexxing that nasty Blue Devil from time to time. So heres hoping you will understand where this frustration is coming from, and if you should find it in your power to have a penalty at Finals next year at Indy instead of the Quarters for that nasty Blue Devil, we would be eternally grateful. Thank you Lord.

Dear vets: Please, for the love of all that's holy, do what YOU want to do. Do what's best for YOU. Maybe you want to stay with your current corps. Maybe you don't. Maybe you think you'll fit in better somewhere else. Don't let anyone talk you into staying (or going) if it's not a decision that you are comfortable with. Maybe you have a dream. If you do, chase it...or you'll never forgive yourself. It's not about the ring. It's about accomplishing your goals, and setting a tone for the rest of your life. Your DCI time is finite. Make the most of it. Signed, Someone who stayed when he shouldn't have, and then left while he still could