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You're right on the money. Just because "it never affected them in the past" has no bearing on whether it affects them now -- in today's DCI. The Cadets have resisted the move from "body" to "dance" that the rest of the activity has embraced. The military design of their uniform makes that sort of choreography look a bit odd. There's no logic in "it never hurt them before". This is NOT before :-)

(A) Arguments no one has made in this thread: Uniforms earn you points. (no but they can cost you points) Everyone needs to change their uniform. (no idea where that came from) Corps that change their uniforms automatically improve in placement. (no but it can cost you placement) Modern corps uniforms change to reflect the theme of a show. (most change to reflect the color palette) Uniforms don't impact a show's success: (Cadets 2011 in all maroon -- oops that wouldn't work would it?) (B) Arguments posters have made in this thread: Cadets military style uniforms don't lend themselves to modern choreography. And yet some posters seem to think that by arguing about (A) they somehow contradict (B). Conclusion?

If anyone can offer a real world solution to overcome the corps proper uniform's weakness in the choreographic and thematic requirements needed to score well in the visual and GE captions I would love to read it. Now, if alumni are happy with the corps being consistently in the lower tiers of the top twelve to keep the uniform then I can accept it; however, we are deluded to think it can currently compete with the push from other staffs. Maybe the trend will cycle back to the traditional, but I doubt it. One of the tenets that formed DCI was creative freedom and innovation, and like it or not, innovation has defined the modern Cadets. In matter of fact, innovation has become one of the Cadets' hallmark traditions as much as its uniform. Can anyone honestly say recent iterations of our beloved corps have embraced innovation?

I watch lots of WGI clips and the things they're doing visually are amazing. I think the CADETS are correct in reinventing themselves and moving forward. I'll say it again, if they couldn't WIN in 2015 with a vet heavy magnificent brass, percussion corps, then it's time to realize the design approach has run its course and time to look forward and morph into a modernized version of yourself understanding your history and traditions but not being chained down by them.

Really? I mean there's still blue in the uniform I guess. I think it's just that they started changing quite some time ago so you're used to it. And they've continued to mess with it. So you're also used to change.

So when we do the Vanguard yell.... Boy that's gonna be a mouthful

Love that they put something out there for people to see and hear for 2017!

Surprised more Grainger hasn't been put on the field.

I was just looking for it myself... As an excited Alum I see that Frank Sullivan is returning to write/arrange for the Stars! His dark style always appealed to me.

It's always easy to make condescending comments from the outside, but the truth is until you've actually marched in a specific corps, there is no way you can know why those who have marched there are proud to have marched or why they cherish that corps particular uniform. I could never tell you what makes Blue Devils who they are, SCV who they are unless I was actually there. Nor would I ever try to take anything away from those who marched there. So it would be better to have some understanding of those who marched there, just as it would be best for the alumni to recognize that things change sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst, instead of making it seem as though their feelings are irrelevant.

I have no idea what is happening with the Cadets engine right now (apart from the change in staff) and have virtually dropped off the radar for the 2016 season, but as an alum I would love to see the traditional look come back. Before the flames arise, I am a fairly recent alum, but one of the last to wear a traditional looking Cadets uniform. As stated by another person who posted here, there is something behind wearing the uniform that those many, many years before you wore. In a chaotic transitional time, my personal view is that the members need right now is some sense of familiarity. I hope that the new incoming staff and design team can respect the traditions of the past whilst still being innovative, this is a difficult balance and a fine line to walk.

i'm entertained can't ask for much more on a sunday night 2 weeks til spring break

repeats an argument already listed in column (A) ((#4))) AGAIN i'll stop now -- but this is exactly what every single post is -- arguing points that no one is making in an attempt to -- i'm not really sure. anyway.....

OH MY GOD, JUNE, PLEASE GET YOUR @55 HERE NOW!!

In the last dozen years, ( 12 ) only the Blue Devils have won more DCI Titles than the Cadets have. Not Crown. Not Bluecoats. Not Cavaliers. Not Phantom Regiment. The Cadets wore a Cadet styed uniform, and it did not impede their recent Title wins in the least. The comment that modern day " choreography " requires the Cadets to ditch their 80 + year cadets styled, iconic uniform is downright silly, imo. Should the Santa Clara Vanguard now go hatless too ? Maybe ditch their corps colors and maybe wear some baby blue or some such in colors ? Afterall, SCV hasn't gotten so much as a sniff of a DCI Title in 20 years now. Maybe its the colors or their style of attire that's held them back.. ( I know, its silly, but that seems to be the ridiculous logic thats on display here on DCP with a couple of posters.. lol!)

It's a Crown within a Crown. Crownception.

agree. My understanding is a modern cream body/suit type uniform with some design and overlays that happen to add maroon and gold. I do think they will work the >>> logo into it graphically. Haven't heard anything about the headgear yet - but I do believe they will have it (JMO) -- the >>> logo would look cool in place of an eagle on the front of a modern looking headgear

It is Crown Imperial. 27th Lancers!

The great thing about The Cadets is that when they really innovate, in many ways, they redefine what "real drum corps" is activity-wide for half a decade and more. If going with a new uniform is identity-shattering to any degree, then the identity was pretty weak to begin with. Exactly no rational adult would say that about a corps like The Cadets.

Oh, well there ya go. Cool. 97 was in a time period where I kinda fell out of following the activity for a while. I like that music so this should be another Crown show I really enjoy. (I've especially liked the last couple years.)

Doh.

I would take another look at RPK's most recent comment on this thread.

This sounds incredibly familiar. Can't put my finger on what it is.

What I've heard of the show fits that to a T, VERY aggressive and almost bordering on angry. And crazy hard (but very polished) as well. I definitely do not think this is going to even remotely be a cliche lovers/Romeo and Juliet type show which was a slight personal concern when I saw the title. The clip they posted that they then took down was lots of very technical/aggressive type stuff, and they sounded SUPER tight playing it too. In the world of staff additions I think Dr. Miller has flown under the radar as one of the strongest pickups a corps has made in terms of it improving a section in recent years, they're starting to develop an absolutely killer brass line.

That's just the point. Some people march there because it has lasted so long. It stood the test of time. It continued on when the corps was in danger of folding. That is one reason why it means so much to those who have marched there. A lot of the overreactions are completely uncalled for, but when you know the history behind the corps, the uniform has much more of a special meaning to many of those alum. It may be hilarious, but that's how they feel about it.

Was ist das problem hier? Alles ist in ordnung !!

But to then react in a manner like this when the uniform changes? To akin it to "the death of the Cadets" (an actual quote from an alumnus) and to go on as if none of the traditions or accomplishments of the corps matter anymore because of a uniform update? It's an almost hilariously disproportionate response, especially when you consider that by no means do the Cadets NEED to rely on the store brand uniform style as their identity with such a fabled history. I challenge anybody here to find a field uniform whose last overhaul was 83 years ago.

That singing position is a bit nationalistic for my taste ;)

What, in your opinion, makes the Cadets the Cadets? Surely it's not so simple as a maroon top with white pants in the style of one of the most copied uniforms in history? The point I'm trying to make is that an organization shouldn't define itself with a particular jacket, even a particular color. I don't think the color combination of maroon, cream, and gold are what makes the organization worth the countless thousands of dollars in donations every year. When someone asks you "what are the Cadets?" Do you proudly reply "They're the ones in the burgandy!" or do you tell people what actually makes the corps special? That's what I'm getting at. This fixation on the uniform is unhealthy for the organization. It's a very pretty uniform that is very rapidly showing its age compared against others in the caliber it competes in. There's nothing wrong with that, It's almost a century old. Were I making condescending remarks from the outside, I would agree with you. I'm not trying to stipulate that the feelings of alumni don't matter. I'm trying to stipulate that, in my personal opinion, alumni of the Cadets in particular seem to fixate on the wrong things when they talk about the "identity" of the organization. It's not about the placements, or the color of the uniform, or how the buttons are laid out on the coat. Not to me, anyway.

Symmetrical drill was an integral part of the drum corps identity, and they just had to go fix something that wasn't broken there too. Remember marching timpani? Neither do I! But I'll be ###### if I let someone make a change to an artistic activity-- something which, almost by definition, will change to reflect the times. Drum corps isn't about military uniforms, saluting the colors, standing in retreat to be judged for uniform care, or anything else of that nature. Drum corps has changed to reflect a more artistic and theatrical angle. One which, frankly, makes a lot more sense when you consider what drum corps is at its basic level-- music and movement. Who is to say high mark time at a standstill for a minute and a half blaring out Malaguena in a west point style uniform (a dime a dozen) is superior to a corps in a light, theme specific piece doing visuals and body movement? If you thought that was rhetorical, it's not, because the answer is the folks that show up to audition based on the show you put out last year. Cadets have been running the traditional angle for more or less the past 5 years or so, and, funnily enough, see some of the lowest audition turnouts of any top 12 corps. I can tell you absolutely definitively that BAC, Crossmen, and Academy all got higher turnouts this year by very large degrees just to name three that I know off the top of my head from outside the top 6. I could go on to name every corps in the top 5, and quite a few others besides. Why? Because frankly, nobody wants to make a company front and play simple gifts, or wear a big heavy uniform that adds 5+ pounds to your horn when they could be wearing spandex. Nobody wants to play classical arrangements when they could be playing Imogen Heap or be doing a wild wild west show. What makes the Cadets the Cadets? It's a shame that not even the alumni of the corps seem to know. If I were to throw a dart at the board, I might mention the fact that Cadets alumni are hugely represented in the teaching world. Clearly the corps grows a breed of educators and people who are inspired to share their muse with others. I would talk about the work ethic it takes to be a Cadet versus many other drum corps, or the history of innovation that people all seem very proud of-- until any actual innovating is done, at which point the alumni go frothing-at-the-mouth crazy. I would not, in a synopsis of what makes the Cadets the Cadets, mention the West Point uniform. Wasn't Boston wearing one of those up till 2013? Haven't many other ensembles in their multitudes worn the West Point look? Is that really what makes The Cadets the Cadets? The fact that you say that not wearing the traditional uniform "blurs the line" seems more like a copout than anything. Somehow, at every Boston Camp, folks so old they seem barely able to walk man the food lines and the registration tables across the east coast. They don't seem to put the identity of their corps into an inanimate piece of cloth, and seem more interested in the lessons that the students there are learning.

now now, don't throw any shade... lol

Gavorkna Fanfare

Yes, and No. The Corps marchers who pay the adults to make the decisions on costumes (and its colors, designs ) are not involved in what " fabric " they will wear . A handful of AARP qualified adults make the choice of the outfits. and the youth are kept in the dark on it until the adults tell them to.. " go over there, and put these on ",( whether they like them or not). As for the shows themselves, the adults write the scoring sheets that increasingly reward the adult friends they know on the scoring sheets,where the adult created show design is increasingly rewarded on the scoring sheets more than the youth performance execution levels are. The adults think so little of the "youth" that today the adults think its proper to judge " the youth " in Drum & Bugle Corps competition without a Drum judge, or without a Bugle ( Brass ) judge... or without a Guard judge, or any combination lack thereof, and for half of the" youth " competition season too. Furthermore, Most fans know the names of the" youth " stars in college basketball, football, and other collegiate sports. But except for a name here and there, lets face it, the " stars " that everyone knows in DCI are the adults, not the " youth " busting their arse in performance competition. Unlike most " youth" sports, all the Hall of Famers in DCI are all " adults " too. There are no " youth " in the DCI Hall of Fame,, and they all were voted on by other adults. Some of whom never marched in ANY uniform, nor competed in DCI in any Corps in their" youth". Some of the DCI judges are over 70 years old now. They are well past their " youth ". ( haha!) So be careful when you bring up that DCI is foremost a " youth activity " when there is ample evidence that its not quite the " foremost " that'd you like us all to believe... lol!

The sound of rifle straps snapping in unison Having my face ripped off by G bugles Snares that don't sound like little brother practicing on the dining room table The starting gun

Whaaa? Lil' Ol' me? Why, I'm among the most lovable of personalities on these internets. Yea, OK, I'll wear the badge with honor. And I'll remember that the honor of victory is only measured in the stoutness of your challenger. And I'm glad to see you didn't take it personally, because I sure don't. Apparently you're in a long and esteemed line of badge-carriers around here.

Funny, corps halls are more warehouses and office space than practice facility. Schools fill the practice hall role and storage/office space is cheap by comparison. Colts and BK have each posted pics of their new corps offices and storage warehouses, but camps are almost always at a local school.

yup and they had all kinds of timing issues (as you know) - it's still one of my favorite Crown shows. And I loved the "rewind" portion.

Well, it was a known thing about Styrofoam coolers and that they never held up on a bus for more than a weekend at best. People were warned, and if they didn't listen, so be it. Again, for anyone outside the activity reading this, Drum Corps took place during all of this. Just a rather pointed reminder that amongst all the buffoonery and goofball incidents, the Westshoremen beat everyone in DCA at least once at Finals during the 1979 to 1983 period and placed no worse than sixth (yeah, Bucs, Cabs, Sky, Empire, Sun, Hurcs, so on and so forth....). Tom could play. We all could play. We may have been a bit nuts, more then a bit dysfunctional, but we had top end talent and a lot of desire.

Plus "Miss Saigon" is back on Broadway.

two words Belshazzar's Feast

Count me as one of those who enjoys BK's 2010-2013 offerings as much as 2014 and 2015. Hopefully the 2017 show will be a departure from the craziness of 2016 and combine the more classical style of 2010-2012 and the more modern style of 2013-2015.