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Hey, I'm a MM in the mellophone section for Surf this year. It's my rookie year of drum corps, and I can already tell, despite my lack of marching experience, that Surf is a very, very special organization. Not a single person involved in the organization is in any way, shape, or form worried about the progress we're making this season thus far. We all love how it's shaping up to be and are all so thrilled to see what the rest of the season holds not just for us, but for the rest of the drum corps community. I saw someone said on the first page that maybe we and the staff are getting a little tense due to our performance level, but that's not true at all! It's a very chill environment, actually, and we're all just having fun with the music. We aren't coming into this season with a crazy goal of how many corps we can beat out, though we are hoping to make it past Thursday night this year :) And there's no doubt we'd be a little bit 'better off' if we started earlier. Our season starts a bit later than other corps because many of our members are still in high school and late graduation, finals, etc can get in the way of spring training and potentially prevent some of us from being able to march with the corps. We'd much rather start a little bit later than risk taking the experience away from some of our members. After talking to some parents of returning MMs, I've learned that one of Surf's biggest issues is the fact that a lot of members only stay for a year or two before going off to another higher ranked corps. However, we do have those members every year that age out with us having spent their entire marching career with Surf. I can promise you, you have no reason to worry about us, if you are at all!! We're not worried even a little bit, and our show is going to be great and we love it, so hopefully you will all love it, too. :)

I would hope that there is more than a uniform/style that makes a corps.

I'll say this...I've spent some time at camps, and I think you're completely correct. Granted, I'm a super fan when it comes to Madison, as an alum, so my opinion may not be respected on the subject due to that. That being said, I think the 2016 corps was very talented, and I truly loved the show, but there were design issues that many in the judging community could not get past that led to them being 13th in 2016. I believe 2017 will shock and surprise people in the best of ways, and that the corps will come back with a vengeance.

This almost exactly hits the nail on the head. Surf specifically strives to provide the opportunity to allow members to march a "World Class" corps who wouldn't be able to otherwise march a top 12 corps, whether financially or time commitment wise. Having been connected with the organization for several years I can tell you there are some things they do wonderfully, and some things they struggle with, but the thing they do the best is educate. The staff there are by far some of the best educators in the activity and it is a wonderful place to start off in the drum corps activity. I would bet almost every one of the top 12 corps has former Surf member. So to answer "Why does Surf do so bad?" They don't. They do really well at what they set out to do. By judging them by placement, you're just judging them like judging a fish by how well it can climb a tree.

Great crew at Surf. Like Mike Davis said earlier... Bob Jacobs is a wonderful man and knows his stuff. And the corps members certainly seem to enjoy what they are doing. I don't see the problem here. If DCI is comfortable with them being in World Class... and the corps itself is comfortable with that... then great. End of story. It really is up to those two entities to determine what a "World Class experience" is for the Surf membership, I would think.

Hopkins live now... Should see show announcement around April 3rd Not planning on much early video etc... Lots of NY Philharmonic tie-ins C2 updates: drum line all involved indoor - so they are mostly in for rehearsals only Saturday night thru Sunday. Show is unnamed. Appalachian Morning, Appalachian Morning again (by another composer) and the end of Appalachian Spring. Need a few brass members - running about 52 and want 60, so in the middle of recruitment. Corps is in "pretty good shape" - playing an indoor show with Reading Bucs indoor in May. Hoping the early performance will help the corps have a goal to work towards and get off to a better/more prepared start. Percussion full. Have 20 guard contracts out - marching 32. New food truck. A little behind schedule due to snow - but are back at it this weekend in the build out. Cadets HOF - nominations underway until March 31. 2 or 3 nominated so far Tickets available for shows: June 30th in Allentown, then Clifton all day on July 1st event then July 2nd DCI show in Clifton, August 1 Annapolis etc,,, Cadets 2 have a mini tour from Annapolis thru Chester and Allentown (Friday night), Cadets are on Saturday night Hopkins referenced "costumes" for the corps several times Clash of the Corps - Hopkins was asked in October if the corps wanted to do it, he said yes. FUSE is out. So still possible so they are waiting for Production Company to sign with a new network... if it happens Cadets will be a part!

As far as BAC alums are concerned, as long as the marching members are dedicated, appreciate tradition, and have drive and grit, they'll see a younger version of themselves, cheer, and make sure they have steak and lobster at the home show. As a fan since 1975 (12 years old), I think I'm pretty typical. Every year a corps was fielded in the lean years made me happy, I've been thrilled each year they've made finals, I rejoiced when they made finals last summer. Alums and fans will be rooting for Boston Crusaders, not just by what they are wearing, but for the heart of those on the field.

As someone who has been a fan/member/staff member/volunteer/supporter since 1978, I will support them if they come out in pink spandex, wear waterwings, and take a dump on the 50. Somehow, I don't think they will. But, buckle in folks. This should be fascinating.

So far, so good. Interesting that they mentioned the word "refreshing" several times. That speaks volumes.

Surf does not "target" high schoolers. It actually does almost no marketing at all that I know of. The schedule IS conducive to those who cannot move in in middle May, and it is the only other world class corps to rehearse in the northeast (other than the Cadets). There is a very wide mix of ages, probably equal high school and college. If you think that Surf's schedule targets high schoolers, then take a look at Blue Stars website - which specifically states that they can excuse high school kids from spring training and have licensed high school teachers on staff who can administer tests to high school kids. http://www.bluestars.org/membership/schedule.php. Surf wants to score higher - they WANT to make semis. Believe me, the MMs see the scores and care. Alot.

First time I saw the show live, I was on my feet in awe of the show, then I heard the "beef" yell and wanted to barf! Can't deny the show otherwise though. Most of the younger posters might not know that THAT particular music was part of the "Beef. It's What's For Dinner" American advertising slogan and campaign aimed to promote the benefits of incorporating beef into a healthy diet.

Having marched in the late 90's, I can say that I didn't march Madison based on a show announcement or concept. Even now, I don't think I would decide where to march based on a show announcement or concept. I mean, even the best of ideas may have tragic results on the field, and the most obscure or mundane seeming concepts may soar. I really don't believe that show announcements would change recruiting at all. There's never been a season that we've had a majority of show announcements before auditions begin, so I think the argument that some might make that it helps or hinders recruiting is a moot point.

Just depends, at the end of the day, on your definition of World Class. I suspect, Stu, you're thinking more of the WGI model, while DCI is much more about organizational and tour commitments. Even that, though, is a relatively recent development in DCI. As envisioned, there was supposed to be a review process every few years where corps were shuffled up or down based on whether or not they were putting out a "World Class" product, deserving of World Class fees charged to show promoters. And to be fair, it's not like Surf is bumbling around like Keystone Cops out there. Even those corps in the 20-25 range are putting out leaps and bounds better product than was seen even 5 years ago. Are they Crown and Bloo? Of course not, but they're still putting on very good drum corps shows. Finally, if you limit it to Finalists and possible Finalists, there will be like 13 corps in WC. You can't build much of a tour from that. Mike

Nothing wrong with a CONCEPT title IMO..so what if it changes...this seems to be a straw argument IMO

Yeah but sometimes concepts change as you do rewrites and you see what works and doesn't work. I've done about 3 million rewrites on shows before it's where I've wanted it to be. I think Cadets learned a valuable lesson last year with the changing of the title of the show. The show had a hard time settling in to what it could be and by the end of the year it was good but I think people tried to hold every little change over their head then. I can almost guarantee they aren't the only corps to rework their concept late in the year, sometimes having an expectation for what the show is supposed to be causes you to fit your square design into a circle concept rather than letting both the design and concept just evolve into a triangle.

I look for the Madison Scouts to bounce back this season and make Finals. Since the inception of DCI in 1972, the Scouts have never had back to back seasons in which they have failed to make Finals 2 seasons in a row. The 3 years they failed to make Finals before last season( 2002, 2007, 2009) they moved up an average of 4.5 placement positions too. Last season, they were ranked 10th to 12th for much of the season, before peaking perhaps too soon. In 2002 ( 14th ), 2007( 15th) and 2009 ( 15th ), Madison had to come back and return to Finals the following seasons from further back than last season's 13th place finish too. In 2003 Madison moved up from 14th to 8th.... in 2008, from 15th to 12th..... and in 2010, from 15th to 10th. So there is a history here with the Madison Scouts rebounding strongly in the rare seasons in which they find themselves out of Finals on Finals Night at the DCI Championships. That's just one more reason that some of us find this 2017 season to be perhaps the most intriguing in years.... and heck, while we are at it, lets not forget the Troopers chances of rebounding strongly perhaps too.

from today's fundraising letter. The Cadets2 program features the music of Appalachian Morning, composed by Paul Winter, and Simple Gifts from Copeland's Appalachian Spring. Form the dawn of the morning to the close of the day, Cadets2 will bring to the field a variety of presentations and mood, all wrapped around one of the great melodies in American music, Simple Gifts. 36 chairs which are incorporated into the production and used by the two-time World Champion color guard to express the story of the 2017 production from end zone to end zone throughout the program. (Cadets' DCP thread on DCI forum gives more details of C2, per GH live web chatter today. cf page 370.)

Im going to guess they will insert an abundance of color this year. For most of last season...the show might as well been titled 50 Shades of Bleh

As a parent to a returning Surf MM, I can report that the corps has alot more MMs coming back this year, so hopefully that will provide some more backbone. The show is shaping up to be really interesting and more challenging than in years past. Surf does start later than most corps (though by the time of move ins, they are rehearsing every weekend). They had one free day last summer (San Antonio) and a few laundry half days - that's it. They also have a small budget, which impacts general effect - no big ramps or annual uniform changes here. But, they do have the best food in DCI! My MM claims that the open class corps tend to score better at finals because they are judged all summer on a different scale, so when they get to finals they are competing on a blank slate. The MMs definitely wish they were scoring higher and not making semis last year was pretty hard on them. I don't think the show, though pretty good, resonated. Stay tuned for this year - definitely more contemporary.

As a hornline member from 16', I was hesitant about seeing the new visual and design staff come on. But now the new visual and design staff this year is absolutely incredible! I wouldn't want anyone else on our visual and design team! I can assure you that this staff is even better than the last year. Nothing has changed from this last year, except the level of detail we have been digging into and its getting better and better every camp!

Back on topic: Mandarins 2017- Inside the Ink

Mandarins 2017: "Inside the Ink" https://www.facebook.com/mandarins.sacramento/videos/1320764328016507/ Also, https://www.facebook.com/mandarins.sacramento/photos/a.324466920979591.72565.324307517662198/1320779301348343/?type=3

No problem. Glad to help. I love the entire collection and watch them often. Funny you would ask about the 92 show...while I've watched and listened to it from time to time, recently it has become one of my favorite Madison shows.

This is definitely true. I know members knew the scores and we're trying to catch people. My son was talking to a member of Pioneer and they too want to move up. If you aren't getting better today, expect to get passed by a couple of corps every year.

Which is my point. They did it because it was in that commercial. It may have been "cheesy" but it was still funny. And the show was great.

Where does Surf market itself? (mostly HS MB shows?) In any case, I'm not sure membership tells the whole story. Lots of HS bands take their young members to extraordinary levels. So I don't entirely buy the "we're a young corps" argument. Late start to the season -- yes -- definitely can see that being a major impact. Compare Surf to it's competitive WC neighbors. Pioneer (-4) Surf Cascades (+3) Spirit (+4.5) Pac Crest (+7) What separates these corps? Does Pioneer move in later than Surf? Does Spirit have much older members? Many would say you need to spend more money to move up higher. Is that just to pay for better staff? Design? Logistics? Or is Surf (and Pioneer) finishing where they are simply because of a philosophical choice by their admin? Interesting questions indeed.

It hasn't been released the direction of the new uniform, but they did retire this uniform. The corps director said so in their office update video.

Target means who the marketing is designed primarily to speak to. If McDonald's "targets" men between the ages of 18 and 25 with an annual income of $25,000 to $35,000, and men between the ges of 18 and 25 with an annual income of $25,000 to $35,000 choose to eat at McDonald's, it isn't because that group "targeted" McDonald's, it's because McDonald's marketing worked.

The thing I found most interesting is the Thriller choreography that's happening in the background.

To be fair, people are still mad about electronics and Bb instruments too.

<cue violent disagreement>

Or, a Soundsport team like Madison did this year. Both Madison and SCV changed their names this year to reflect their diversity of programming. I think that vindicates your idea. Two parades on one day!

Cheese goes great with beef.

"Utica's Best": Remember the Magnificent Yankees? Great corps. Elphaba

absolutely

Totally agree, I hope they can change what seems like a stigma that you can't do fun and lighthearted and succeed, they've certainly proved that wrong to a certain level last year, hope that trend continues. They are a voice DCI is in short supply of, I feel like they're a Velvet Knights/Sky Ryders successor in a way.

October was kind of over-played a bit. Thing about his work -- the hornline needs to play with perfect intonation. Many many bad versions of October played on the field because the dissonance and suspensions only work if those pitches are just perfect and the ensemble's ears are super well trained.

Here is my question: Does anything you claim as why they exist, and what their mission is for, support them being designated as a 'World Class' corps competing on the stage of 'World Class' competition?

Wow-hadn't looked at that class in a while, now it's getting absurd in World Class. At one point I was trying to be understanding, but after your post, it's hard to support the reasoning.

I think you need to look at the particulars of how each corps provides the DCI experience to the marching members and what their overall goals are. I do not think that Surf thinks they are doing "badly", at least I hope not. I doubt any show history is holding them down. Corps Director Bob Jacobs is one of the most respected people in DCI. He runs a very special organization.

I sure don't know the specifics of their low scores, but I do know a general principle: Music played with joy and passion will always be received well. Perhaps Jersey Surf's MM's and staff have gotten tense and apprehensive when they perform because of their past lower placement. If that's true, then my advice is to go back to the joy of music, the joy of the brother-sisterhood, and the opportunity to bring joy to the audience. If you look up Wikipedia pages for the top corps, MOST OF THEM HAD YEARS OF LOW PLACEMENTS, LOW SCORES. So I just want to say to the member/staff/volunteers of 2017 Jersey Surf - I'm for you, I'm not against you, I look forward to hearing and seeing your show and most of all, I hope you have great fun and joy in producing it. If you do, I will be whooping and cheering for you! And so will a lot of other people. May God bless you this year and provide everything you need to accomplish your purposes, your plans, your goals.

Yep You are in for a treat this summer with these cat's. They are special.

If there is a corps I just flat out want to do well, it's The Academy. Glad to hear it sounds like they're off to a strong start.

Glad to hear that they are having an awesome off-season....just remember though that just because the corps improves significantly doesn't necessarily make the placement automatically go up...I've fallen into that trap one too many times over the years...

Easy there bd6171.

HOLY SMOKES! What a great compliment! I am humbled by your kind words! It has been a LONG WHILE since I've logged onto DCP. Yes! I am involved with Solaris Drum Corps. NO :-( we are not getting a DCA evaluation this year due to timing constraints. But YES! We will be competing in SoundSport this year with performances at DCI Orlando, DCI ATL, and DCI Finals! And if anyone is still wondering, Solaris is the direct decedent of Sun Devils. As Anthony stated earlier, the admin/staff split off from the SD Board of Directors to create Solaris Performing Arts. SPA is an umbrella group that currently houses Solaris Drum Corps and Solaris Percussion (FFCC/WGI). If someone wants the whole story, I can tell you offline. I am an open book. Although we (Solaris Drum Corps) are disappointed that we are not getting evaluated this year, we are very excited to still be able to do this activity in front of the people that matter the most, the fans.

I see the Southern Knights are officially on DCA site. Congrats S K !!!!

Switch Boston amd Phantom and you're onto something.

All I can say is the brass book is taking a big step difficulty wise.

Your question.