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I am new to the forums and really only created an account to thank someone for posting such wonderful pictures of the Cadets. However, this post is so disheartening to me. You see, my child just spent her 3rd year with the Cadets. She marched The Power of 10, Awakening and TFTFTF. The POT show got the Cadets 4th place and this year the lowest of the 3 years she's been involved. However, this summer was by far her favorite and most enjoyable. I have never seen her so devastated over a season ending as I did 3 days ago. She is still crying because she misses the show, the corps and 149 of her best friends. If you could have seen the looks on their faces at the banquet and the tears that were being shed because those kids had to leave each other, the show and the corps behind until next summer you would need no explaination at all about what the Cadets are about. I appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion but I just wish, as a mom of a Cadet and a fan, that people would be more tactful in their postings. Being a Cadet has a far deeper meaning than any placement or medal. Please remember that. My heart breaks reading such negativity from people towards the Cadets.

I watched on Flo and had the same problem. I needed to chase my wife to her side of the sofa!

"This is for all my drum corps friends and family, as I feel it's important to address what my summer away from home has meant to me this year... so here goes! Cadets 2017 This summer was a year of renewal. A year to rebuild from the ashes and find what it means to be a Cadet again. Many of us who returned for our second season may not have even found it to begin with... hell, I don't think I truly understood... but I was determined to figure out what I missed before returning home this time around. I entered the season with the hopes of regaining competitive success. Between the staff changes and new show design, I couldn't help but remain hopeful. I wanted to prove to the world that the Cadets were a group of fighters that weren't going to just sit down and take 6th place. If I'm being honest, finishing where we did last year stung a lot. Having been inspired by such fantastic Cadet years such as 2011 and 2013, I couldn't help feel disappointed... like I wasn't upholding the rich Cadet legacy I grew up loving. So as the season pressed on, we moved in for spring training and the excitement began to build... the first few videos were recorded and members' faces lit up with excitement watching and listening to the show for the first few times... it seemed that last year was simply a fluke. THIS year, we were back, and the DCI community wasn't going to be ready for it. So we pushed harder and harder until our first show came around, aaaannnndddddd We scored low. Members were in disbelief... thinking "how could this happen... this show is amazing!" Others rationalized what happened by saying "oh it's just a carry-over of last year... give it a few shows and we'll be right back up there!"... Many were experiencing deja vu from 2016... all the work and all the excitement led up to a competitive disappointment at the first show. So the weeks went by... we added changes to the show with hopes of bumping our score up.... We learned a new ending that was eventually scratched and never used... we restaged one of our production 3 times... to no avail. The scores remained where they did. At the Atlanta regional, we added our "finals ending" to our show and were one of only two groups to receive a standing ovation long before the show was even over. Surely we must do better!... Same placement. Even until DCI finals a few days ago, our placement didn't change, and we as the 2017 Cadets have to live with the fact that we finished in 7th place. Meanwhile, amidst all the work and changes we put in throughout the summer, I received constant text messages from family, friends in other corps, and friends back home asking me what's going on with the scores... I felt the Cadets were beginning to become the laughing stock of DCI... the kid that the bullies at school love to pick on because he can't fight for himself... but I know #### well that he used to be the heavy-weight champion of the world. Now, while I would absolutely love for the Cadets to be the world champions again, I also recognize simply being the heavy-weight champion does not entitle you to the belt forever... The Cadets embody the work ethic it takes to get to the top... not the glamour of being at the top. So while it may be easy to poke fun at the Cadets in recent times, let me tell you some unchanging and undeniable truths about Holy Name: Cadets will never stop working because of a score. Cadets will never succumb to an outsider's opinion. Cadets will always get back up the next day. Cadets will always push harder when there is no hope in sight. There comes a point where one may believe we border on the brink of insanity... doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting different results. To this, I simply ask if you've TRULY worked hard enough and committed yourself so whole-heartedly to an idea that you cannot give anything more. THAT is what the Cadets are about... not mindlessly working hard, but working hard with a devout passion and purpose. It takes a lot of courage to have faith in something that is not a guaranteed success... and it's even harder to find 150 people embodying this same belief... That is what makes the Cadets so special. So regardless of the scores, this is what I thought of our 2017 season This 2017 Cadets drumline had an absolutely incredible summer. I've never been in a drumline that played together and loved each other as much as this one. Each one of you has a special place in my heart and what we achieved over the last two weeks was pretty ridiculous... I'm gonna miss you guys. This brassline was collectively the hardest working group of people I've ever seen before. I have a lot of admiration and respect for the unconditional work they put out this season. Although they were majority rookies, these cadets have b*lls. Period. Be on the watch for these guys next year. They aren't going anywhere. I have no regrets marching my past two summers with the Cadets. Regardless of what people believe I should or should not do, my faith in Holy Name has not run out. I am a Cadet. For Holy Name shall ALWAYS be. To my Cadet brothers and sisters, I'll see you in November. Rest easy until then... 2018's gonna need it." 2016-17 (and beyond?) Snare The 2018 Cadets are coming to play... the love each other and the staff, and this is the attitude a vast majority of the Cadets have. I have a good feeling.

Just thinking how much more merchandise could have been sold if they had inserted "We're" in front of "The Faithful" and "the Fallen" and "the Forgiven": "WTF WTF WTF" That said, can everyone who wants to continue complaining about 2017 go do it in the Cadets 2017 thread? I've stopping following that one, and don't feel like updating my "ignore" list so early. This is for Cadets 2018. Let's look ahead, not behind.

I still think BK is a melodic show away from being absurdly popular.

.... that really sucks, because they're proud anyway, and luckily for them there's nothing someone on the internet who I'm guessing was totally uninvolved can do about it. The Cadets goal was and always is to be the best that they could be, and for such a young corps, they were. They also put on a memorable performance that sets them up extremely well for next year. If any other corps had ~65% of their brass age out, 7/10 pit rookies, and had new brass staff, arrangers, percussion staff, and visual team, I get the feeling they might take a small hit. This year was a year of renewal... hopefully this year will be the first in several years that they can climb back to the Cadet excellence that satisfies the masses. And what good does it to them to not be proud? Who are you to say?

*Trigger warning to the entitled seat poachers Perhaps death is a bit strong but a Pox; May the rude Seat Poachers never get a complimentary airline seat upgrade !!! When you pay for economy, do you help yourself to Business or first class seats merely because they are empty? Is this sort of theft acceptable in the new ‘share economy’? No, so why do it at a drum corps show. I don't care if you think I'm uncool, begone. Normally, I have not minded the seat poachers in the past as they were polite and respectful, often keeping out of the paying customers’ way. This year, that was not the case. Is this the entitled generation that I have heard of showing itself? Are the corps failing to instill those good, civic drum corps values? Was the lack of discipline I saw on the field a reaction to this generation and designing around it, ‘we cannot be taught to march forms but we can do our individual snowflake dance visuals’? Usually, I can clear the seat, hit the washroom and make it back between corps. This year, not a chance due to Gate Lice and Seat Poachers trolling the aisles looking for a seat, blocking traffic flow. The Gate Lice were horrible, between corps they wouldn’t move or step to the side out of the way; instead they held their spot so only a trickle of the crowd could get in or out. The Horror: someone helped them self to a seat I purchased when I asked them not to as my friend was trying to get back in time. No mind to her, so my friend was doomed to became a seat poacher behind her for a corps. She was oblivious, entitled and completely disregarded me telling her 'no, the seat was not available' and then she was annoying watching the corps. Another: 2 seats over, their kids marched a 6-12 corps so they left to greet their kids at intermission, the Poachers quickly appeared and plopped in great seats for corps 6-1 and then when the parents returned for retreat, the Poachers refused to leave. The guy had to go down the aisle behind them and tap them out showing his ticket. And then…and then…the Poachers showed such attitude, were so rude, it earned them my stabby eyes of death. The same Poachers returned looking to reclaim ‘their stolen seats’ for BD’s encore. Unreal. I know what corps you marched and will forever hate them. And then there were the mass dinner parties plopped on the floor in traffic areas or the sudden stops in traffic to text that made getting around the stadium very difficult. How are you people so unaware of others around you and how your actions affect them? How are you so self- absorbed? Rude! DCI need to limit the wrist bands to the upper-side sections and not let the Poacher interfere with the paying, ticket holders. Sorry, not sorry kids, you blew it. You abused your privilege and the good will, good nature of others. You get NOTHING! Current Marcher, I care about you even less now, drum corps has failed to make you respectful members of society, you have not been taught your civic duty or even how to respect your own corps while in public. Drum corps kids are not better. Is this a good time to mention the marching member in uniform, well sort of in uniform, as he had his shirt off and his spandex trousers dropped as he was passed out in a urinal (semis)? TL/DR: Cowtown rant against seat thieves, possibly smears an entire generation as entitled but left himself an out

Spirit of Atlanta sort of pleasantly surprised me with the size and scope of their Corps this season... nice show from them too, imo. They could continue their rebuilding process in 2018, and be " THAT " Corps... who knows.

I watched everyone I could over the three days and some all three times. I did have to miss Cavies on Saturday but the only reason was that I had to pee like a racehorse. My back teeth were singing Anchors Aweigh. All this animosity will fade. We're bigger than that as an activity.

My seats this year were at the top of section 141 on the aisle, right by the main entrance from the snack area. Between every corps, I had the constant question of "are these seats taken?". Because I had 5 seats, more times than not there was at least one empty seat (visiting our daughter on the lot, getting food or just had seen certain corps too many times). Saying "no, the seats are not available" did get old. But on the other hand, some of my fondest memories of the weekend are interactions with folks who could sit with me for a show or two while members in my party were elsewhere. For a brief moment, I was a member of the fan section for a mello in the Troopers or I was able to quiz the Mandarins staff about the deep meanings in their show or able to find common friends in the Oregon Crusaders or learning about the two weeks The Company spent in the United States (and how anxious they are to come back). Drum Corps is more than just the shows on the field ... its the interactions in the stands between the Drum Corps family. And I don't want that taken away because of bad behavior on the part of some.

Didn't know how many people know this, but BD welcomed three new members to the "four ring club" on Saturday night. Past the original five, there had only been one other in the past 37 years, but the drought came to an end. It's really a stunning achievement for the three...in the modern era, you simply don't see longevity like you did "in the old days". Congrats to Scott Downs, Jacob Tortorete, and Brian Coon. Well done! What a list of shows to have marched to get there, too: Cabaret Voltaire* ReRite of Spring Felliniesque* Ink* As Dreams are Made On Metamorph* Some of the great shows in BD (and DCI) history!

exactly. Fans (and sometimes "band moms") can be very petty in this activity - it's time to move on and all 3 organizations just work to have an even better 2018 my long-view on this is IT IS GOOD FOR THE ACTIVITY

No doubt the departed staff would have checked the microphone 400 times before stepping off for the last two shows. The decision makers at Crown created enough of their own shortcomings by banking 70% of their show on a lone vocalist using unreliable equipment.

I hung out with Pioneer Wednesday night and Thursday this past week as they prepared for prelims. I was there to support one of my former students who is now marching quad with Pio and being taught, ironically enough, by my former instructor, Tyrell Carver (an amazing guy, I was very happy to know "T" would be her instructor, but that's another story)... Seeing my student and T again was pure magic, and Pioneer are wonderful hosts - Roman is a true gentleman. I can't say enough good things about that organization and will encourage other kids I teach who are considering the jump to DCI to consider Pioneer without hesitation. I started marching in 1968. I've spent a lot of time thinking drum corps is not the same as when I marched and in many ways, it's true. Electronics, trombones, singers - much has changed and I haven't been onside with a lot of it. But I watched those Pioneer kids give it everything they've got in run-throughs Wednesday night, sectionals and runs Thursday morning, and then show prep in Military Park, most if not all of them understanding where they would place at the end of the day. It didn't matter to them, they threw every muscle and fibre of their being, and all of their heart, into preparing for that show. I could only watch in admiration. And I learned in that moment at show prep, that the things I maybe don't like about modern drum corps - the mics, the instrumentation etc. - are entirely superficial to the main event, which is the experience these kids have in marching. The work ethic you learn, the ability to learn your limits and then break through them, the lifelong bonds of friendship you make, the joy of performing for the audience - none of this has changed, and that's the essence of drum corps regardless of the era or competitive level you marched. If you marched, you get it. I'm 62 years old and in this, my last year of teaching, I learned a great deal about drum corps from these 22 and under year olds this week. In every way that matters - drum corps has not changed one bit. I'm a fan again. Thank you Pioneer for your gracious hospitality, and for the lesson.

I'm a White Sox season ticket holder over 15 years so yes, I know the drill and no, you’re wrong, it doesn’t occur like that at professional sporting events and it hasn’t been like this at past DCI finals (I’ve been to about 35 of those too) So, have you been to a professional sporting event? What decade are you talking about it? My special snowflake privilege comes from me buying a ticket, it buys me a specific spot in a designated space. Why don’t others respect that? I’m sure they’d demand the same if they had actually bought a ticket in that section

I loved the Cadets this year. I too marched with them, from 70-72. In 70 we finished 10th a VFW Nats, in 71 were 7th. and in 72 we missed finals by 0.1 after receiving a penalty of 1.8 for overtime. At no time did we feel anything but proud of our corps. Placements should never be the sole measure of success.

WOW!!! A mm puts himself out there to let people know how much those kids love the organization and believe in it whole heartedly. jwillis put a very nice positive response to the mm's posting and what do you do?? Act like a total d***he. Keep your negative, unnecessary, heartless comments to yourself and go troll in another thread. This one has enough.

Agreed...ive seen it from crown fans since 2012 and frankly it affects my judgement of the "crownies". I have no loyaty, except to the activity as a whole, which is why i spring for FDCI tickets when I can...maybe even joining at the Gold level for next season. i could care less who goes where, just develop shows that bring me outta my seat on Finals night.

*Thats if you survive Jim's high velocity throw*

so in the 70's and early 80's barely making finals if at all was a total disgrace? No. They should be proud they were able to be a Cadet. being a Cadet was never about placement.

A grizzled old veteran Professional Baseball Player.. a Hall of Famer... was roundly booed by his home town baseball fans for striking out 3 times in a baseball game, as he came to the dugout after the 3rd strike out , a brand new rookie up just up from the minor leagues earlier that day went over to console the future Hall of Famer. The kid said to the Veteran player.. " thats terrible that they boo you like that. I think its awful.". The old grizzled veteran player, not a particularly likeable guy said gruffly to the well meaning rookie " look,. just remember rook, they'll never boo a nobody reserve player. They'll only boo the great ones. Your job here is to get so good they'll boo you a lot and put money in your bank account for the right to do so. If you bat .200 here, they'll never boo you, but you'll be selling Fords soon enough to pay your bills "

At prelims I sat in 338 in the top row. Some corps kids "poached" on the seats next to me. When the seat holders arrived, the kids were very polite and left. Within 10 minutes I had to shame the 50-something year olds in those seats to quit talking during the performance by telling them that the young people I was sitting next to previously knew proper audience etiquette. Rudeness is not restricted by generation.

I sat in section 139 in row 20 and we only had poachers on Finals night. I got there and told the young woman & man that they were sitting in my seats. The young woman apologized and moved right away. There was no attitude and no demand to see my ticket. Mind you, if I would have gotten attitude, I would have reacted very quickly as I won't take crap from someone when I paid good, hard-earned money for a seat that they're sitting in.

That never happens when I go to sporting events. And I've been to a lot over the years. The ushers don't allow people into sections where they aren't ticketholders. BTW, I also marched several years and we were told where we were permitted to sit after we performed. We were also told to be respectful while in uniform or wearing our corps jacket.

Troopers could surprise... in a good way. 2018 will be the Troopers 60th Anniversary of their 1st year of Drum Corps competition ( 1958).

What's the acceptable finishing spot for a corps that went thru these changes? When are they worthy of the "proud" label?

I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of fans who absolutely loved this show! It was, hands down, one of the best live drum corps experiences I've ever had - and, given that I've been involved with this activity for over 30 years, says something. Looking back, there are only a handful of shows that stirred my emotions like Wicked Games. The commitment to character, talent of all sections, and stunning production values all combined to put 12 minutes of pure magic on the field. Then, if that wasn't enough, that absolutely brilliant "burn at the stakes" effect at the end was, by far, one of the all-time best pieces of visual mastery that will be talked about for years to come. Thank you, BAC, for Wicked Games...a show I will talk about and savor for many, many years.

You are forgetting that Crown lost key color guard instructors to Boston Crusaders and quite a few members of Crown's guard followed. I don't think the departure of folks from Cadets surprised too many, it has been happening for years though the staff going to BAC seemed to surprise some. The Crown departure was more surprising, as a review of posts last fall will show. I agree that in the fair market, people are free to come and go, that's business, but that does not mean people can not be angry or hurt over a departure, that's human.

Just wanted to drop in and say THANK YOU to everyone for using our app this summer! We had some growing pains and we appreciate you sticking with us as we sorted out the issues. We've got some changes planned for the off-season that should improve both the performance and reliability of the app. Looking forward to the 2018 season. See you then!

There was no seem about it..it was FACT.

Thanks...as if I needed the reminder.

My champion came home. We watched it together. always such great footage.

If it's any of your ###### business, my family wouldn't have been able to afford to watch it if it had cost anything. You honestly think people would have subscribed to a premium satellite feed to watch drum corps in the 70s, 80s and 90s? Believe it or not, not everyone in drum corps back then was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Kind of like the thousands of families today who have a kid who would give an arm and a leg to march, but can't afford $4,000.00 a summer. I saved up for 6 years to pay for my tour fee, which was only a quarter of that. If the broadcast had NOT been free, then I, along with thousands upon thousands of other fans and members, would have never even been exposed to the activity. In a time where the majority of band directors in North America were openly hostile towards drum corps, those FREE broadcasts were the absolute best recruiting tool available to DCI. Now, it's all gated behind a paywall, or otherwise limited to social media and pirated clips on YouTube. So don't you sit there and try to judge me because I lament the fact that the average american has to sign up for an unreliable and poorly-engineered premium service in order to even be exposed to drum corps today. That kind of elitist attitude right there is why the activity has become so inaccessible to everyone that isn't living vicariously through their kids in band or has been a fan for 30 to 40 years (a demographic that is shrinking every single day). If DCI has to nickel and dime the fans and, more importantly, its members just to operate, then maybe it needs to cut its operating costs. And I can supply a pretty comprehensive list of where they can start.....

Actually it was not really free....people made pledges during the pledge drives to help fund the station. Sadly, too many drum corps fans failed to honor those pledges, which led to the eventual cancelation of the show.

I hate to interrupt your wet dream, but Crowns brass staff isn't going anywhere.

For sale: 18 1-gallon jugs of hater tears.

So...after wading through the 23 pages, it appears nobody really knows anything yet and there's space-filling until someone does. Except maybe one or two people are adamant about something that one or two others are just as anti-adamant about. Did anyone else hear from a strong link to a weak friend with a medium link to an age out with a cousin who is a neighbor of GH that The Cadets are doing music representing the Bhagavad-Gita next year? Lots of Bollywood style. Krishna is a featured singer.

Striving for excellence is different from simply winning. You obviously don't understand assuming you were never a Cadet like the few that do post here.

In fairness, the vast majority of marching members were respectful and courteous. The handful who do not respond to polite "redirection" to seating areas designated for those with wristbands were definitely squeaky wheels who end up reflecting poorly on their peers. In my experience, it was adults who tried the hardest to test boundaries and acted as though they were entitled. Especially problematic were adults who would text kids and friends about "empty seats" in their sections.

We only got wristbands for prelims BITD and if you didn't make finals and you wanted to watch the show, you had to purchase a ticket. I'm not being harsh. It's just how it was. Of my five years in juniors, I made finals two of them and I had to buy a ticket to see finals the other three.

I think stealing is wrong, so would never support someone taking another's seat or creating a nuisance of oneself in the common areas. It does concern me that the performers (who not only provided the entertainment, but paid a lot of money for the opportunity to do so) are not provided some way to participate in viewing the shows. They are the product, and reducing them to vermin does no one any good. It's wishful to think that decent seats might be provided to MMs... that's giving away too much money. With all of the space at LOS, and the abundant screens available, would it be possible to create an agreeable member viewing area? Imagine a sizable indoor viewing area with seating and large screens that was only open to MMs. A live cam of MMs reactions could be presented on a second monitor in the paying sections. It might make the MMs feel less like cattle and more like participants in the biggest events of the year.

Standing O! It's like you read my mind. It was awful this year. Someone really needs to get handle on this.

But if you're late for mass you often are forced to sit in the dreaded first row. This guy slid into the back pew. They're always filled up by the time mass starts. They should have made him slink up to the front haha.

I guess it depends on the kids or the direction they are given. For example, my kid is in the Cascades and they sat in the endzone as they were pointed in that direction. No poaching at all.

I've already signed up to receive audition information... Cavaliers are my dream corps to march and I hope to be a part of the 70th Anniversary corps

Oh gosh - here we go again 1. Cadets have had historically low caption head, arranger and staff turnover through the years - only BD has lower. Staff isn't coming and going all the time as some would like to make it seem. Cadets have taken many marching members and move them to tech and then caption positions through the years - and then exported the talent. This years percussion team is a good example of that. Young techs who will grow in effectiveness over the next couple seasons. Not quite as flush with cash as some other top corps it is a cost-effective way to get things done. People tend to leave Cadets and get "paid" - be it inside DCI, WGI, BOA etc 2. Gino was with Cadets since 2000. Colin practically his ENTIRE teaching career - first under Tom, then as Caption Head. They left together due to a desire to do something else, work with different people and both are somewhat a package deal as their wives are sisters and Colin has attachments in the Boston area. Boston was in the position to make them a generous offer and the rest is history. Good for them and good for Boston 3. If there is any "animosity" between the 3 organizations it probably has to do with off season antics and not the staff situation. A lot of heavily recruiting of members - which is not unprecedented in this activity IMO. Been going on for decades and folks should just get over it. The BAC organization put themselves in a great position and they are doing everything they can and need to do to make the corps as successful as possible. As they should be. People do take this things a bit personal even though there really isn't much "personal" about it. IMO all is fair in love, war & drum corps (aka "business"). I do get all the frustration and concern - but honestly "this too shall pass" All 3 corps have few ageouts - the teams will continue to grow and learn and I'd imagine next year will see a more compacted and hopefully "friendly" rivalry emerge between these three. It is a new "reality" for Cadets who mainly had the entire East to themselves and now have Crusaders, Crown and Bloo as top options for potential staff and members. Good news is we have massive population centers and plenty of potential "ringer" members to go around. Cadets are stepping up their recruiting for 2018 - with two Texas auditions, a massive experience camp at MetLife (Meadowlands) stadium and 2 high school "experience" camps all leading into their audition camps. As far as staff - I don't expect too many changes at the 3 corps. Cadets will move to "reinforce" the brass team - so watch for something on that. Also heard about some other interesting moves between corps but nothing announced - so time will tell. Stay tuned on that - I guess we hear announcements starting after Labor Day.

Wrong.......he was representing being late to Mass.......I just don't understand ho people didn't get that.

Trust me. They aren't leaving Crown.

I predict an off-season of "I was at camp and they sound way better than this time last year"

Choir robes. And a cross. And pews. And a choir. And stained glass windows. Buy them all and we will throw in The Savior of the World for free. And one heavily used cheese grater.