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That's ok....I'll do it for you...'cause I don't particularly care if people get ticked off (you can always do the same for YOUR fave corps, y'know).page From a post on my Facebook page (written for those who aren't corps people) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For those who know me and who are NOT drum corps people...let me give you a not-so-brief list of stats of the group I am an alum of...the Blue Devils Drum & Bugle Corps (who won their 18th world championship yesterday). After reading this, you might start understanding why I have drum corps running on my laptop in my office so often. Buckle up...this is long, and for good reason. ---------------------------- BD competitive stats (updated August 13, 2017) Since 1973 Caption wins (captions basically being section awards for best general effect (how you "sell" your show), brass, drums, marching & maneuvering/visual, color guard): GE: 16 Brass: 24 Drums: 13 M&M/Visual: 19 Guard: 18 Note that I could not FIND guard results on the recaps for 10 of the 45 years we've been going to finals. The first guard award I show is 1978. I found no record of guard awards for 73-77, 80-83, or 90. If anyone knows those, let me know and I'll update the spreadsheet. Interesting to note that the guard did not have their own separate caption points until 2000. Prior to that they were lumped in with the vizh scores. Ave placement per caption (all 45 years) GE: 3 Brass: 3 Drums: 4 M&M/Visual: 3 Guard: 2 Ave placement per caption (Finals only) GE: 2 Brass: 2 Drums: 3 M&M/Visual: 2 Guard: 2 The improvement in caption placement from 1973 to 1974 was amazing GE: 22 to 7 (9 in finals) Brass: 27 to 8 (12 in finals) Drums: 16 to 9 (7 in finals) M&M/Visual: 32 to 13 (11 in finals) Guard not counted in that time frame. Most caption wins in a row: GE: 4 (07-10) Brass: 4 (79-82) Drums: 4 (83-86) M&M/Visual: 6 (12-17) Guard: 8 (08-15) Additional stats: The corps has only placed out of finals one time – the very first trip in 1973. Has not placed lower than 5th since the 9th in 1974. Last time they finished out of the medals was 2005. They have failed to medal only 9 times since the first trip to DCI in 1973. In 46 competitive seasons of Drum Corps International, BD has won 39% of them. 7 of those were undefeated...2 of THOSE back to back. The average performance season is between 25-30 shows...so those 2 back to back undefeated seasons were 51 wins in a row). In the 42 seasons since (and including) winning their first title in 1976, BD has taken 2nd place 10 times...by a TOTAL point differential of 5 points. The average margin of victory over BD in those 2nd place years is 0.5 The largest difference was 1.85 in 2002 -- the ONLY time the point differential was over a point....the lowest was 0.025 in 2008. Of those 10, only 4 were over half a point. Yet MORE proof that to beat BD you have to bring your "A game"...on steroids. I can't imagine that any other corps in the DCI era can match this record. Un-effing-real! Quite frankly, you’d be VERY hard-pressed to find a major pro sports team or other competitive org in a large activity with a record anywhere NEAR this. Couple this with the fact that BD loses a fairly large percentage of their membership (about 35% on average) to ageout (meaning those members have reached the maximum participation age of 22) at the end of every season – 60 members aging out after 2017 ALONE (that’s 40% of the corps...no WAY a major sports team could recover from that between seasons) – yet they continually maintain the competitive quality year after year after year and it’s pretty #### clear that the Blue Devils are, across the board, quite possibly the most dominant competitive organization in any large-scale competitive environment....period. (For my fencing friends...BD is probably more dominant in their field than the Italian fencing team is in theirs....and THAT says a lot.) A large part of that is the very solid financial ground the org sits on. Another large factor is the consistent staff, especially at the top – no revolving door at BD (a lot of corps changed major staff positions on a frequent basis, looking for that magic formula...BD found it years ago and has not had a major staff change since the mid 90s). And, of course, there’s the fact that success breed success, with hundreds trying out each year for those coveted spots...BD can afford to select the best who come to audition.

I thought DCP is a joke and nobody reads it except to get a good laugh. Can't have it both ways.

not as big a fan of gaines as i am of webber. gaines is amazing, but the way webber visualizes complex musical phrases is mind-blowing. gaines is the master of taking saucedo-type music, and maximizing it visually, so this will be very interesting.

Yes, every time anyone critisizes the Cadets they are just bitter and can't possibly know what they are talking about.

Domination like we have never seen before. Love it!! Do it up Devils!!!!

I thought they would deconstruct them.

The staff just kept diddling around with the show all the way from Garfield to Wisconsin. Adding this and that...it was a bit chaotic really. We were not ever going to be in the top level, so it was not complacency, that is for sure. I think things just got away from the staff, as great as they were. The day after...they all disappeared.

That former instructor was a college history major, as he once told me. Have to say it was pretty awesome doing the Peace Sign to "White Rabbit" in 1970, the heart of the anti-war era. We marched the Princeton U P-rade that year (billed as the worlds biggest sloppy parade). Unloaded from the busses in our Cadet unis...right in the midst of the very liberal Ivy-league college full of long hair hippy-types. There we were with our mandatory short hair, full blown Cadet unis...warming up before the P-rade started. Our great DM, the late Richie Chirichella, started the opener, Gounod's "Queen of Sheba", and the look on the students faces was about what you'd expect. Right after that, he had us play "White Rabbit", and the reaction became totally different. Kids came over in droves, and we got a great applause from them when we finished. Needless to say, "White Rabbit" was the ONLY tune we played in that parade. Post script many years later...both my son and daughter also marched the P-rade, as our HS band is hired every year by one class or the other to march.

Also a good point. LOL. From what I recall, Cadets were not what would be considered a slam dunk for a top 7 or 8 spot that year... so it wasn't like they went in to DCI prelims overconfident or anything. These timing issues could be costly back then. A DCA corps lost that circuit's championship one year... ironically, the same year as the Cadets' penalty issue (1972)... due to a one-point timing penalty. That first DCI championship.... I wasn't there, but It seems like everything... the title, the finalist spots and placements... were totally up for grabs. For one example, Des Plaines Vanguard finished well back of the Kilties at the World Open the first weekend of August that summer... but beat the Kilties two weeks later at DCI Finals.

Amazing how awful Cadets were yet there are those who would kill and celebrate to be anywhere close. All relative I guess.

Headgear was required in the VFW / AL era, and I suspect that carried over for at least a while in DCI. Apparently not anymore.

Over 100 brass interest forms for the 2018 Pioneer Hornline so far. We're looking to do something pretty special this year, including marching the largest hornline in Pioneer history. If you know someone looking for a great opportunity, please send them our way Trumpets: https://www.facebook.com/groups/271532240003920/ Mellophones: https://www.facebook.com/groups/149285252328882/ Baritones: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1044518688984222/ Tubas: https://www.facebook.com/groups/266115193906555/ Positivity Inclusion Opportunity

Thanks, Jeff! If you know of anyone looking for a great opportunity, please send them our way! https://pioneer-corps.org/join/request-information.html Andy Grindle Brass Caption Head

Nice! Put out a show that people can buy into, give them a great experience, and they will come. Fingers crossed for a great year!

Over 100 brass interest forms for the Pioneer Hornline so far! It's going to be a great year as we look to march the largest hornline in Pioneer history.

I for one am super pumped to see a Gaines drill book back in DCI. Double pumped that it'll be SCV marching it. Such a perfect fit in 2018.

Kidsgrove Scouts were second at DCE Finals, finishing with 90.75, which was 0.3 behind The Company. (Jubal was third with 89.15.)

I remember getting beat by Royal Family and Conquistadores as a kid. I always wanted to be able to beat Vanguard just once and rub elbows with them. I had no idea what would become of Blue Crew. Having a son age out with 3 gold and 2 silver was way more than I could ever imagine.

nicely written piece by Cadet alum/former instructor now living somewhere "out on that other coast with that other corps." http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2017/09/inside-the-arc-color-pre-or-take-a-knee/

Depending on who they hire, this might actually be a win. Lots of people (especially here on DCP) thought Cartwright's design choices last season were downright embarrassing.

He is indeed no longer listed among the program staff. I consider that to be a significant loss. I think Tim Mewburn is solid - I liked the guard in the otherwise dreadful 2015 Regiment program design. And I think the Colts drill has been solid, though I'd say they traded up with Hinshaw. It seems the instructional staff has gotten a boost, but the revolving door for design staff in Rockford continues to be a problem.

Maybe maybe not...Any corps that made changes side stepped from tradition to do what they feel they needed do to

I want to go back to the 90's uniforms. Yeah - that might get me to buy a ticket.

My daughter loves Albert from last year with Guardians - great pickup! Mike

At this point gold isn't even a win for BD, it's their standard. Now a three-peat...

Trust me it’s allot easier than you think.

I can't go through another Hopkins inspired stretch where now the "choir" is the answer Last time it was voice and we as fans suffered through 2006, a lost championship in 2007, 2008 Can't take it. The show last summer (even with the young corps) was dumped on with late season "additions" by Hop - "can I get an amen" "mass has ended go in peace" the gospel "singing" etc... naked Jesus, the tarp with the jackets -- and very little time spent on cleaning the show. The resources poured into that should have resulted in much more come finals. Can't take it anymore. Sorry! It's terrible. Girlfriend hired as guard caption head and 7th and 8th and STILL HAS A JOB?? Ridiculous Clearly the BOD has zero power.

Everyone is wanting to bash BD for doing what everyone else is doing, only a whole lot better than everyone else. People want to act like every other group is out there doing drill and playing like the '83 Cadets, but nobody is anymore. Watch every group and see how they all march and play simultaneously about the same amount. Every group is "guilty" (if we are going to indict BD then let's use this term) of playing while not moving more than 20 years ago. But if we want to complain about what BD is doing, then let's spread the love/hate equally: -They are not centering half of their show around a vocalist... -They do not have a choir that sings throughout the entire show... -They wore head gear with some sort of plume for at least part of their show... -They wore a more traditional uniform for part of their show... We could go on like this, but in the end BD got a standing ovation at the end of their show, and oh yeah, in the middle of the show as well. Let's just enjoy all of the great things that many groups are doing, and stop bashing what we don't like. We're never all going to like the same things anyway.

Segmentation: How DCI Has Gotten More Complicated... And Less Difficult Of all the changes DCI has undergone so far in the 21st century--any key brass, amplification, electronics, generalized body movement increasingly replacing marching/drill, the move from corps-specific uniforms to show-specific costumes--the change that has affected my enjoyment of the activity the most has been the increasing segmentation of show design. This is a reward-based activity, so if a change doesn't boost the score (when utilized correctly) it will fall by the wayside. So perhaps my argument is that the DCI sheets are due for another overhaul. Perhaps I think that the sheets aren't rewarding the correct aspects of the performance in the correct proportion. And, like anything else in this activity, my opinion is as subjective as anyone else's. For every person that comes onto DCP and shouts "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" at DCI there is someone else who thinks they are doing it right, and they eagerly dive into that day's monkey slap-fight in Thread X. And, of course, it goes without saying that these are concerns regarding show design and scoring, not performance caliber or effort from the kids. I try REAL hard not to slide into dinosaurhood with regards to drum corps, but the bottom line is drum corps is about the performers NOT the fans. Some fans have strong issues with this, but the simple fact is that the time and money we put into this activity as fans doesn't come close to outweighing the time and money put into this activity by the performers. So, with the usual caveats in place, here's what's bothering me about DCI as of 2017... 1. SEGMENTATION OF MUSIC To this day I consider the 2009 Blue Devils' show "1930" to be the easiest ensemble brass book to win DCI in the modern era. Visual, guard, and percussion were all smoking in that show, but the brass was carried by a small handful of extremely skilled soloists while the full ensemble played long tones and not a whole heck of a lot else. The show was almost at the level of a Concerto for Brass Soloists and Drum Corps. And when it scored 99.05 at Finals, we were off to the races with regards to musical segmentation (specifically brass). I say specifically brass due to the relative limitations of segmenting the percussion section. The field battery has a limited number of both performers and pitches. They might break into smaller ensembles a time or two during the show, but one really skilled snare drummer can't carry the whole snare line: the way percussion is written doesn't really allow for it. The front ensemble has a few more options, but again their limited numbers require more cohesiveness to be effective in the full ensemble sound. Brass, on the other hand, you can slice and dice a million different ways: soloists, duets, ensembles of 6 or 10 or 20, high instruments, low instruments, concert instruments (like trombones and french horns), the possibilities are endless. By creatively breaking apart the ensemble over and over again, you can have your 10 or 20 strongest players carry the entire difficulty load of whole brass book, lessening the impact of your "weakest" performers and making cleaning the ensemble sound a whole lot easier. I'm not saying solos and small ensembles should be banned. Nor am I saying they don't present their own unique challenges to perfect. But it's also a bit of a smoke and mirrors act with regards to difficulty. Let's say you have an 80-member horn line. The top 25% play challenging music for 10 minutes of the show, the 2nd 25% play challenging music for 8 minutes, the 3rd group for 6, and the bottom 25% for only 4. Your brass line has 560 "player-minutes" of challenging music in the book. Now let's say there's another 80-member horn line that focuses more on a whole (large) ensemble sound. Their top 50% plays challenging music for 10 minutes, and their bottom 50% plays challenging music for, 6 minutes of the show. They have 640 player-minutes of challenging music. It's hard to combine subjectivity and analytics, but the second group has arguably a much harder brass book for the ensemble as a whole. I do not think the DCI sheets and/or judges currently reward/consider this at appropriate levels. Cleanliness is--and always has been--king in DCI. And it is far easier to clean an ensemble, match intonation, address tone quality problems, etc. when there are only 10 or 20 performers as opposed to 80. In modern DCI, the MORE your whole ensemble is playing the harder it will be to get a good score. That doesn't seem correct. 2. SEGMENTATION OF VISUAL My realm of knowledge in music is far broader than in visual, so this won't be quite as in depth. Also, I don't want to repeat myself too much and a lot of the same principles apply: cleaning four batches of 20 is far easier than one batch of 80, particularly when the four batches of 20 are spread across seventy yards and their movements are not interconnected or uniform. Sure, it adds wonderful layering. And complexity of a sort. But since drum corps has gotten to this point it also largely eliminated the single-most difficult part of visual design: transitions. No need any more to write a challenging drill move to maneuver the right instruments to the right positions for the next segment. Just have Pod 1 finish their body movement and do a flutter/scatter drill twenty yards to their left where they will join half of Pod 3 for the next body movement segment. Meanwhile Pod 6 is still on the back forty doing completely different movements because Pod 6 is jerks. Oh look! All the pods have joined together to form one large ensemble that... does 32 counts of follow-the-leader or jazz running before breaking up and fluttering away to their next pod/body movement assignment. The warning sign, in retrospect, came a few years ago when visual ENSEMBLE became visual ANALYSIS, and musical ENSEMBLE became music ANALYSIS. The ENSEMBLE aspect of drum corps just doesn't seem to matter a whole lot any more, and that makes me sad. 3. COORDINATION OF ELEMENTS I'm sure we've all seen the 2017 Blue Devils by this point. They play very, very well. They move very, very well. And they almost NEVER do both at the same time. There's what, ten or fifteen seconds at the end of Flight of the Bumblebee where the brass is trucking with both fingers and feet simultaneously. Otherwise, all the difficult movement occurs by performers with their horns down, while the hard music is performed by small groups stationed and immobile on the staircases. And then there's the park and bark. Oh sure, you can throw in a few lunges and leans, maybe a stanky leg or two, just so you aren't COMPLETELY immobile while you're playing, but come on. It's still park and bark, just "new" park and bark. I pick on the Blue Devils, but they're just THE BEST at it, they're not the only ones doing it. I like Vanguard's show better this season, but their design definitely seems to have been of the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mindset. SCV is going to have their best finish in almost 20 years essentially by performing a Blue Devils visual book. I guess that's both a compliment and a criticism. I look back over the past five or ten years, and almost all my favorite musical moments do not have WOW visual moments accompanying them. And vice versa for the great visual moves. The Bluecoats seem to be the best at maxing out visual and musical effect simultaneously these days, but look where that's gotten them in 2017: 4th place. They just can't get clean enough to match the BD's and SCV's who aren't trying to do so much all at once. Which, if I recall, was the whole point of moving away from the tick system in the first place. The tick system was only about error. Doesn't matter what you're doing, just don't make mistakes. The build-up scoring system was introduced in 1984 to allow for more creativity. And yet, over the course of about 30 years it has slid back into the same trap as the tick system: doesn't matter what you're doing, just don't make mistakes. Be creative, but not TOO creative. What you are doing and how well you are doing it, except the "how well" is about 90% of the emphasis seemingly. And that's how we got to where we are today. Avoiding ensemble difficulty (because it's much too hard to clean). Breaking drum corps shows into pieces so we have COMPLEXITY shifting the full weight of the show's difficulty onto a small portion of the corps' most elite performers. The criteria and judging rewards this, encourages it. This isn't what I want drum corps to be. And in THAT regards, I guess I am part of a very large ensemble.

With all due respect to the OP, I'm with Jay on this... he is correct. Marching band to kids today is what the "local corps experience" was to us back in the day. Heck, there are several high school bands today, in particular the ones in the Bands of America circuit, that would give many top drum corps a run for their money. Local drum corps and marching bands are/were a good thing. I grew up in that "local corps" era, as did Jay... but it's just a fact of life that times have changed.

Have you checked out the marching band activity in this country lately? I believe the high school bands have replaced the "community " corps you remember. Most are funded mostly by parent booster clubs and in some cases you have 2 to 3 quality bands in towns and cities that never even heard of drumcorps back in the day. Add in the indoor activity with the high schools across the country and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say today's high school marching band activity , outdoors and indoors is 20 times the size of the drumcorps activity in its heyday. IMO of course.