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I'll bring the thread back to the Cadets by appending my previous statement that Cadets have over 50 per cent vets in the 2018 hornline by adding that last year there were a very large number of age-outs and rook-outs August 2017. (how another corps used vocalists should be discussed on that corps'' thread.)

In the hands of Steven Spielberg any movie can be great, but some films should be left alone. I would say leave "West Side Story" alone.

Interesting that Bernstein's name is nowhere to be found in the article. Are we to assume it's the same music or will that be "remade", too? In any case, not a fan of this particular remake.

Nobody is shocked, SHOCKED!, any more.

Same here. It would be like remaking "Casablanca." Why even try??? What... in the remake, Victor Laszlo doesn't get on the plane???

Leave this one alone...reboot another film. How Original!!

Does anyone in Hollywood have an original idea?

Only show leaks statements from Cadets interview with Drew Shanefield last night on Cadets FB, zoom, etc.: 1. hornline is over 50 per cent returning vets as of January camp. Rookie talent is up and book is advanced from last season. (I have known Drew since he came to the corps as a rookie in 88; his voice was relaxed and upbeat when he mentioned he was very pleased with progress this camp when he worked with the line, especially the trumpets of which he is an alum.) 2. Drew and George only reaffirmed in their comments the positive and extremely pleased remarks about the percussion section Aungst and Omar have gathered building on returning vets. 3. Costuming different for each year's show seems to be the trend. 4. Both Hopkins and Drew had interesting comments about electronics. Drew doesn't seem in favor of micing hornlines. He pledged for the corps sound that any electronics (especially percussion) would be fewer decibels but more smartly used. Hopkins was quite frank about the failed attempts and inexperience. His pledge was that people could again sit in the first ten rows of any stadium.

They aren’t getting my seat.

Your response will have inquiring minds wondering 1. whether you are marching with either Colts or Academy, or 2. are you remaining silent because you'll be competing against both and want to take the high road. Either way you'll be able to tell us who is right and who is wrong come late August.

Having seen your band on several occasions... IMO, you guys do the electronics thing the right way. Never heard any of it "overpower" the band. The cello feature, in particular, was spot on.

It's an old winter guard tarp they use to protect the super shiny floor at Rosemont school. They also play a mass game of Twister on it before lights out.

My personal summary on voice is that vocals, whether spoken or sung, haven't ever achieved the typically high quality of the brass and percussion performance. Therefore I always find myself irritated at vocals because I want to hear the brass and percussion. Just one dude's opinion.

Hello everyone As the Creative Director of Encorps, New Jersey's newest Drum Corps, I would like to announce our status, and our final audition this Sunday, January 28th at Brooks Crossing Elementary School in Monmouth Jct NJ. The Battery is full (10/5/6) as is Front Ensemble (12 plus drumset and percussion) however, the Brass section and Guard are still signing up members. We will be a DCI Soundsport group this year, however, we are doing a regular DCI field show and will be in exhibition at many shows, including: JUNE 16: DCA SHOW Cabs at the Beach, Wildwood, NJ JULY 5th: DCI WORLD CLASS Show, Cadets, Clifton, NJ JULY 14th: DCA SHOW Caballeros Grand Prix, Clifton, NJ JULY 17th: DCI OPEN CLASS Show, Mulica Hill, NJ AUGUST 3rd: DCI EAST, Allentown, Pa Soundsport Standstill Performance AUGUST 8th: DCI Soundsport, Indianapolis We have an excellent staff, including Larry Kerchner arranging, Matt Krempaskey Brass Caption Head, Matt Savage Percussion Caption Head, Tanner Jones, Guard Caption Head. Our intent is to bring another DCI Drum Corps BACK to New Jersey, that will provide students with an opportunity to perform and gain valuable experience, while establishing our nucleus for the jump to Open Class in the VERY near future. We will have a feature article in an upcoming issue of DRUM CORPS WORLD. They are coming this weekend for pictures and interviews. We rehearse in South Brunswick. Anyone interested in joining us, please fill out the interest for on our site under membership. Thank you very much, and we look forward to seeing you all out there this summer! www.jamwithencorps.org

Once we hit Rocky 7, I knew that eventually we'd be flying past Rocky's Apollo's kid prizefights toward Rocky's grandchild's prizefights at some point down the road too.

Fixed it for you.

I have this CD. https://www.amazon.com/Leonard-Bernstein-conducts-West-Story/dp/B000001G62 It’s great. And the PBS documentary of the making of it is fantastic. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-making-of-west-side-story-conducted-by-leonard-bernstein-dvd-1985/14507198.p?skuId=14507198

I saw that Tony Kushner is writing a new book for it, and I guess I"m okay with it? HOPING they keep most of the music and choreography the same. As long as it has a Tony and Maria ANYWHERE near as good as Larry Kert and Carol Lawrence, I'll be okay with it. The last Broadway revival had an awful Tony, and I've always felt that the dubbing for both Wood and Beymer in the film version made all of their scenes feel super plastic. You will not find a better blend of timbre and emotion than they had. This is still incredibly moving, old as it is:

And black and white. And not widescreen.

I'll bring the thread back to the Cadets by appending my previous statement that Cadets have over 50 per cent vets in the 2018 hornline by adding that last year there were a very large number of age-outs and rook-outs August 2017. (how another corps used vocalists should be discussed on that corps'' thread.)

Many of them in Hollywood don't even have a clue, Terri.... lol.

You left out Madonna as “Evita”.

It could be done as long as it's the original score and uses real Broadway stars / singers. The public should never again be tortured with the likes of another Phantom of the Opera and Les Mis movie remake with their awful Hollywood / pop cast of performers. No matter how much money the creators of thes two musicals made, I lost a lot of respect for them for what they allowed to happen to their musicals. Absolutely atrocious.

The first Ben Hur was a silent film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0016641/ Don’t even try to watch Ben Hur 2016. Unwatchable.

My last year marching, in DCA, 1982... there was a brass execution judge in the stands. (And one on the field.) I don't remember how the logistics were handled then, or how long that "judge in the stands' thing lasted. I don't remember if the judge was cordoned off or anything like that.

Predicting the next season in the off season is as old as the activity. Sometimes you're on target, other times you eat a heaping helping of crow.

Fair enough. While those techs have advanced, they are regulated. After watching the various Flo videos, Dan Potter's facebook Live sessions and informal chit-chats, my suspicion is DCI (which is to say, the member corps) aren't interested in committing the resources that would be necessary to regulate this technically specialized realm. Especially since it would likely involve so much chasing of the rabbit down the hole (even once they theoretically put procedures in place). As opposed to golf or tennis, where they only need a handle on a couple of pieces of equipment, you would be trying to regulate an entire fleet of electronics per team. More akin to NASCAR and F1 tech inspection and what-not. A lot of people and dollars per unit to keep everyone in line. Interesting discussion.

Predicting results before the season starts or either corps you're talking about has even announced their show? That's a paddlin'.

During the summers The Wife worked on the food truck, she always made sure she knew about all member food allergies and special dietary needs as did the other volunteers. But it starts with the member informing the staff and that info making it to the food crew. I believe she said her biggest problem was keeping vegan items strictly for the vegans -- some members just liked to "graze". And there were logistical concerns when in the middle of Tour, she suddenly had more vegans than at the start.

We need "restrictor plate" drum corps contests.

I think Brasso's quote of Jeff Ream may be on target. It's hard to predict and both would love a return to finals. I've been impressed with Colt's musically but design strikes me as problematic. Academy is great at whimsical shows that engage the audience, but last summer people kept pointing out that the show was not clean. I would rather use the word "polished." I saw Academy in Lawrence, Allentown, and Thursday and Friday in Indy. Each show I noticed an error, not a major one, but when scores are so close, errors and design flaws can be consequential, but it was a different error each show. If Colts have shows designed similar to 2014 or 2015, they'll have the advantage. If Academy has more polish as it did in 2016, they'll have the advantage.

IMO judges should never "send a strong message" to the staffs. Their one and only job is to evaluate what they hear, and give numbers accordingly to properly rank and rate the groups being evaluated. How much an out-of-balance situation will impact a score is up to the defined judging criteria and what the judge thinks it deserves, number-wise. Totally obscuring the rest of the ensemble at one and, and slightly out-of-balance on the other end is a wide continuum. Factor in all of the other components being evaluated on a caption, and the net impact of one element may not be as much as some here want it to be.

Yet, so many of the people right here in this thread have been fans of drum corps for decades, accepting dozens of such changes. What you stated is demonstrably false.

As Jeff Ream would say " whoever scores the...............................oh, never mind.

This is a big challenge. As a long time food truck volunteer, this is a constant priority and yet a struggle nonetheless. Over the years we usually had a dozen or two individuals every tour who were vegetarians or had specific dietary needs. We accounted for them each and every meal, but it was never perfect. Our failures were seldom for lack of consideration. There were times when our execution came up short. There were other times when certain individual's expectations just weren't realistic. Just like at home, sometimes the fridge isn't well stocked, limiting the options. Other times we nailed it (my vegan tofu masala was a big hit!). One of the biggest challenges we faced was protecting the "special" meals from those simply shopping for other options. I'm not blaming those on special diets. Nor am I letting the cooks off the hook. I'm just saying cooking for 200 four times a day isn't easy. Everyone - those with special needs and those without - has room to complain. Just be sure to thank the cook too. HH

That technology actually exists. It's called "Dustin Johnson."

Nice camp recap from Boston (on their website) where they say they've worked on putting the first 4 minutes of their program together and had a lot of housekeeping items reviewed with staff and membership. Far different than in my day. Unlike BITD, hey review medical, policies on reporting, hazing, DCI policy, physical assessments and on and on. Pretty cool to do a level set of expectations on being part of the org. It leaves no questions for everyone involved. The biggest takeaway so far is that there is significant improvement in brass players and music (difficult and complex book). I know we hear that from all org's., but Boston lately has been conservative in their descriptions about what they are doing. This is exciting news.

i have never seen activity that eats its own like drum corps

well...yes and no on the sound. Grounded percussion! Bb brass! HUGE changes that raised a lot of grousing. " you can't carry it you can't play it!" "battery rests too much now!" still hear that. adding the 2nd and 3rd valves..."one step closer to band!" those changed the sound. "Bb isn't as loud!" now is all A&E good? No! I've loudly said that...it's probably 25% of my posts! i agree it's cheaper to retain than gain new...that's probably 5% of my posts. But in an activity that values designers freedoms for their "art", it's always been this way...that tug of war for fans liking design vs. what designers want to do. history is full of artists more concerned with their vision vs. what pays the bills. Ever read the story of Mario Puzo? He didn't want to write the Godfather. thought it was below him. Publisher sat him down and told him his books didn't sell. Take a shot at that, or we may have to part ways! boom. changed his life forever. Now designers obviously won't profit like that, but they view their art the same way when it comes to the marching arts. Why have most rules been changed? Easy, to help allow more creative design. Always for the good? no, not close in some cases. But, as i've said thousands of time, unless enough fans walk away that it affects the $$ coming in, DCI is not going to give directives to the designers on what they should or shouldn't do. Cesario tried some things with his programs and platforms, and some did happen, but not all. And of course, technology continuing to evolve opens doors to try. it won't all work. But drum corps has never stood still just because of fan complaints. DCA faces the issues moreso than DCI because DCA has continuously sucked at outreach to younger demographics, despite design trends matching DCI, and too many marketing decisions were geared towards older fans that aren't attending due to age and health. the goal, and I think Cesarios' project helped, was to get designers to think more business like...what do fans want. changing the sheets. But remember the corps write the sheets. So drum corps will always have this ebb and flow, and will never achieve balance in the Force as it were. there will always be light vs dark when it comes to fans and designers, periods of great, periods of discontent. And honestly, given the nature of the activity, I don't think it's ever possible to avoid that

the great debate. for...well...since 1972 DCI, and even moreso DCA has grappled with how to bring in the new and keep the old ( in terms of length of fandom, not age) happy. it's two distinctly wagging tails on a dog, that they've never mastered well. if the G7 did one thing, it got the organization focused on A path for getting fans...and they've focused on the youth. long time fans have grumbled and threatened to leave back to the letter to the editor page days of Drum Corps news. I saved many of Dad's old issues...and the complaints....rock music! Pop music! no clor pres or respect for the flag! no more ties to veterans groups! no more ties to churches! too much Chuck Mangione ( ok in 1979 they were right on that). Dance. Bridgemen. classical. running. grounded instruments. adding valves. losing corps. ticket prices. George Hopkins. the list of complaints about what they see and hear by drum corps fans has been happening since the beginning of time. The internet has amplified it for lack of a better word. So, if I am DCI, do I try to do what appeals to kids and they see whats happening in the band world, or do i try to cater to that 49 year old guy who logs into DCP to ##### about something? Well, it appears DCI has gone after the kids, hoping many will stick around til the next wave. I'm unique I know that i have been around the game my entire life. I've hit at least 3 get off my lawn moments with drum corps and the changes. The last time was 4 years...i bailed out of my Friends group, stopped going unless i had kid out there. Then I went to East in 08....and what I saw pulled me back in slowly. 10 almost drove me back away, granted half of that was finals venue. Now I'm back on, even if i have issues...but i've always had issues. And DCi knows that i'm not their target, but they'll gladly keep me as long as they can. I'm not quite my dad and his aversion to a phone that doesn't flip open to answer it, but I am a guy with an adorable 5 1/2 year old that may be out there some day. ( i always tease Bob Jacobs that we will hear " presenting their 2026 program "because Sadie's dad said so" some day LOL). But i know i'm not their priority, and i'm sure to have another get off my lawn moment along the way

Imho, 2013 Crown integrated vocalists very well.

Some really great posts. Sticking with discussion about rules, my concern is nothing is addressed from a rules standpoint on electronic enhancement in terms of providing an obvious crutch. We all know corps are using samples and loops to keep time- meaning you can basically hook up a Dr. Beat through the PA with some chord changes spliced in and be completely within the rules. If I want to handpick a few "ringers" and mic them and run them through lots of processing to create a huge wall of perfectly in-tune layered sound I can do that as well. Seamless and subtle mixing and enhancing is an extremely slippery slope in my opinion as it eats away at authentic live performance. Couple that with the fact the audio engineers are just that- audio engineers- not kids. Might as well hire Nile Rogers or Mutt Lange haha... Rules don't address this, to my knowledge.

I'm predicting them to be in the top 2

I wouldn't consider it a failed experiment. While there were moments in Cadets '17 where the vocalists were unwelcome, there were plenty of moments where they got it right. I'm expecting Cadets to have more freedom of design this year and to have a fantastic show. What both Cadets and Boston did well was to pair good singers with good brass lines. Crown got it wrong by pairing a good singer with an astonishing brass line. With brass that good, it required a singer at the level of Adele or Carrie Underwood. Anything less felt like an insult to that horn line and left the audience feeling deprived.

Zero drop off in talent... its amazing, but not surprising, this group can continue to get better each season. And yes, from what I've been told, no signing this season. The show music I've heard has no apparent opportunities for vocals.

This is a very important aspect if one chooses to use the dot method. 100% buy-in. A member must understand not just the dot but the form. One person off a dot ( depending on space and form ) can change many. Understanding form and what's expected should be understood.

Dot vs Form can really depend on what you are trying to achieve. In earlier days of this debate, the two most extreme examples of these were both right, considering their circumstances. Watch some Cavaliers signature Brubaker (and followers) drill of the 80's and early 90's. Then watch Cadets of similar vintage (Zingali and followers). The Cavies stuff = tight and sharp geometry with large amounts of symmetry. Shapes that the viewer knows and will easily spot when something is off. Even when not being a overly critical audience. Cadets = nebulous shapes with less predictable mathematical development than Cavies geometry. Cavies were preachers of worship the dot to ensure the exact same precise math every time. Start following each other too much and the results could be disastrous to such well defined and easily interpreted (by the audience) shapes. Cadets were much more form based. Which worked because, if the shape was "off" or not in the exact same position as prescribed, it was less obvious. Stay together, keep intervals and dress. And it will still be impacting. Not saying one was better than the other. Actually, looking at what they were uniquely working with, it is understandable why such disparate methods each had successful results. Although I will say, dots are much easier to clean, pinpointing who is the problem ... but only if you have 100% buy-in.

All things considered, the fact that Crown finished third at Finals despite the complete and wholesale botching of their solos by their prominent soloist in the show was the most " astonishing " thing to me on Finals Night. it would seem to be that it would be ( or should be ) irrelevant to the judges as to the " the why " the solos were completely botched by the Corps soloist(s) in judged competition. Thats not their calling... or it shouldn't be, imo. The judges are called upon to judge " what is ", not " what it could have been or should have been ".

I always enjoy Crown's shows, including last year's show. I do not question their talent, but I think believing that only a top recording star could perform with Crown is a bit of an exaggeration. if anything, many in the the audience believed Crown's vocalist was Broadway bound. I think losing so many guard members along with a show that relied too much on amplification were the culprits.