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actually money wasn't an overall determining factor. Just because one guy held it together doesn't mean things change. For one of them, it also took away day job responsibilities, so did they really come out ahead financially? Sometimes, a team that has success has issues that pop up that keep the success from continuing. Could the money have been the icing on the cake? Possibly. But knowing the character of those involved, just assigning the blame solely on money is as ill informed as you claim it is to solely blame everything on George. In fact.....if it's such a great place to work, why is YEA turnover so high? I mean Justin was set up to be the heir apparent. Think he uprooted the family to Concord solely for money? He aint making that much. I once left a job because the workplace environment that had once been great sucked after a while. Luckily my services allowed me to get more money at the new gig, but if the old place had continued to run as it was, I never would have left.

1. Star of Indiana 1991 - Roman Images (tied) 1. Phantom Regiment 1996 - A Defiant Heart (tied) 3. Bluecoats 2010 - Metropolis 4. Boston Crusaders 2000 - RED 5. Carolina Crown 2012 - For the Common Good 6. Blue Stars 2010 - Houdini 7. Star of Indiana 1993 - The Music of Barber and Bartok 8. The Cadets 2000 - We Are The Future 9. Suncoast Sound 1988 - Symphonic Dances for the Contemporary Child 10. Santa Clara Vanguard 1999 - Inventions for a New Millennium

oh i forgot Jack Daniels at show sites

Do you feel dirty? Like you need to take a shower?

Not asking you to confess any sins or anything,. It might be wise, however, to acknowledge the comprehensive turnover in staff along with the significant loss of veterans in evaluating the 2017 Cadets. Then there was the competition (though I'll never concede that Cavies deserved to place so high). Stand by what you said. But maybe give a younger Cadets corps last year a break as well. HH

A show that just melts my face off when the hornline lets loose (without extra amplification). Drumlines that are aggressive, and clean, and groove throughout the show (think Thurston's Crossmen years) And really, just great shows that I want to watch multiple times. It would be great to get to semi-finals and not have a group that is my "restroom break."

the problem is, as i alluded to in an earlier post only Tim K really touched in....is expectation. The Cadets first zigged, then they zagged. For a period of close to 30 years they were a trend setter. Always raising the bar. Doing the impossible. During the later portion of that amazing run, some design flaws started appearing that morphed tremendously in the last 5 years. And now, the corps that changed the game finds themselves consistently trying to catch up. And, while said here, sometimes bluntly, sometimes in veiled terms, major design choices are controlled by one person. A person who stated publicly he doesnt get WGI, which is the trend setting portion of the activity. With the incredible growth in WGI participation.....it became the driving force in design trends that carried over. Indoor guard started as an offshoot of what happened in the summer, just as band grew copying what corps did. But one person calls the shots, and it shows that person can't adapt to the times....or give up the control to let his people do it.And constantly trying to force a message into the shows draws major derision from fans. allowing someone else to be the driving force in design is the best thing that could happen. That's why people left. it wasn't money. it was frustration in the process.

I remember in 2005 our goal was never to beat anyone else but to be the best Cadets corps ever. While I agree that 7th in DCI is not typical or desirable, and while I agree that last year's show may not have been what we were hoping for, I think these are moot. The benchmark for the Cadets shouldn't be the DCI placement but rather how it stacks up to previous Cadets corps. That may not help last year's iteration IMO, but I think that is the standard we should be discussing. Super excited for 2018, regardless!!! :-D

A lot of good points made by a lot of people so far, so I thought I'd quote the two that were closest to what I'm looking for in 2018. Some specific examples to go along with their excellent points: - the whole amplification thing: we shouldn't have to strain to hear the brass over the pit hardware amping...or vocals...or solos... - synth/electronic bass need to be MUCH lower; pain shouldn't be part of the listening experience if you're sitting low - less "amorphous pods" of the hornlines: i get the whole "staging" idea but pods (and for that matter, large amounts of nonunison work/movement by the MMs) make shows "look" sloppy/mushy and not precise - toning down SOME of the uniform/costume/outfit color explosions we've seen lately: overly busy/flashy/textural/etc designs exacerbate the non-precise feel of the visual program

If that is what you want to take from it, so be it. I consider it sub-par for Cadets standards so if you don't like that, I can't help your feelings. I stand by what I said 100% regardless of whether or not you like it.

Since a number of people completely missed my point, some clarification would be a good idea. Evidently, I should have asked "when did 7th out of 40 become "a sub par corps?". I understand that 7th place is not their finest result in recent times, so pithy responses like these... ... were not news to me. More importantly, to suggest that it is "unfair to require members to pay the type of money they are paying", as this poster did, is downright silly. It does not matter whether "sub par" is defined by the past record of the corps, or merely placing 7th or lower... either way, that makes for at least six "sub par" DCI finalists and a lot of other entertaining, worthwhile corps who owe their members refunds, according to this poster.

A return to big drill moves. It's taken me several years to realize that Visual is now more about rifles than cross throughs. Totally missing Phantom's block merges, Cadets' intricate reshapes, Cavies' geometric wizardry, and SCV's war-like maneuvers accompanying their thunderous brass.

To enjoy my 50th year of drum corps as much as year one.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Phantom '96, but I think had I been thinking about them more when I was creating my list, BK '14 and Cavs '10 would definitely be higher on my list than they were. They're both such amazing shows, and I think BK '14 is extremely underrated.

@Blooo Thanks for digging up this thread! I have seen threads like this while lurking and have been thinking about this for a long time. The majority of my "all time favorite" shows are more recent which can be credited to three factors. 1. The progress of the activity where in theory each year you strive to be better than the last. 2. Higher quality recordings of recent years AND recent years being closer in recent memory. 3. I found out about DCI in 2000 and didn't see my first live show until 2005. Also I don't think I can pick a singular favorite show as there has been no true perfect show for me personally. 1988 Madison Scouts- Malaguena is my favorite performance of an individual piece 1996 Phantom Regiment- favorite show musically of all time 2000 Cadets- what I personally think is the best show of all time. It doesn't steal my heart like most shows on my list but it's my gold standard DCI show... besides Cadets 05 was bizarre. 2005 Blue Knights- the show that made me love DCI. Saw a recording of it again recently and still loved it. Just my kind of show. 2010 Cavaliers- The best and most complete show from the Cavaliers. THIS IS MY RIFLE 2014 Blue Knights- this show makes me cry, contemplate life, get mildly annoyed with the poor sound quality and presence of singing, then cry again. 2015 Santa Clara Vanguard- great music from start to finish, one of my favorite ballads of all time, and a nice mix of late 90s/early 00s drill and modern GE. 2015 Bluecoats- The show I watch more than any other. It's so intriguing to me. The perfect blend of art, math, and science. 2015 Carolina Crown- Powerful and amazingly talented horn line. Great dark music with a show design that is easy to get yourself vested in. Oh and it was a total beast of a show live. 2017 Bluecoats- yes. The jagged line. The opener, the athleticism, the solos, the fun. That's 10. HMs for Madison Scouts 75, BD 76, SOA 80, Cadets 85, SCV 87, VK 92, Bluecoats 01, Phantom 08, Crown 08, Crown 12, Bluecoats 14

well....no. the philosophy in all things YEA comes from one place. personally i'm not a fan of all that has come from WGI. I like WGI, and I like DCI, and i like some of the similarities and dislike some.

While I agree with some of what you said, I was also part of a Cadets corps that went through a major staff turnover, but it was a staff turnover for the better (in my opinion, and the success of that season proves my point). Now I will grant you that they also had a relatively newer corps than we did; I firmly believe a better staff could have been obtained if certain circumstances hadn't happened. Complacency should not be the norm nowadays. Corps are getting better and more competitive through out each season. And as Jeff Ream said, Cadets now seem to be the corps that is constantly playing catchup. While we can blame the director for many of the staff leaving, the director should also be able to obtain staff that provides the type of education that the members need to stack up to the rest of the top 6.

Right. And by all accounts, the 2017 Cadets loved their season. All this sturm and drang about poor design choices and not meeting expectations and the kids loved it anyway. Believe it or not, something went right. HH

I think the groupings now are: 1. Blue Devils. 2-7. Bluecoats, SCV, Crown, Boston, Cavies, Cadets. 8-11. Blue Knights, Phantom, Crossmen, Blue Stars. 12. 12th seems to be the only open spot that is vied for by several corps. BD has been so dominant, I can't see why they wouldn't be the overwhelming favorite in 2018. Until something changes...nothing changes.

Might help to know what the word trajectory means. Their placement alone in 2018 is not their trajectory, however, if you analyze their placement over the past several years, and predict their 2018 score, that would be part of their trajectory and makes perfect sense. Your comment, however, does not. If I may clarify a little further: PR 2012-3rd 96.550 2013-6th 93.250 2014-7th 91.425 2015-7th 90.325 2016-8th 89.963 2017-9th 88.125 Where as Blue Knights started the same time period in 10th, and have moved between 6-8 over the past several years. It would be logical to say that PR is on a downward trajectory, as the Blue Knights are not.

You could say that.

Looks like you guys have been working out over the Winter in order to fit on one GQ cover.

I foresee many happy fans and head bobbing.

Happy Day-After-Valentines Day !! Have to read backwards to see what I have missed. Hope no one got their faces eaten up lol.

Been done, Star 1990.

you missed the point I was trying to make - I guess I wasn't being very clear if anyone post about the Cadets you are 1. torn to shreds by the haters (if you're being positive in any way) and/or 2. torn to shreds by those accusing you of being "the borg" or jumping on the"hype train" if you post negatively - well, then have at it So that puts anyone not negative on the defensive and then everyone is pushed in their corresponding corners and this thread happens I totally get those (like yourself) who are more "dubious" given the last few years - totally get that What I do not get, nor will ever get, are those who are so clearly anti-Hopkins or anti-Cadets who lurk here in the Cadets thread constantly hating on everything - those folks need a new hobby IMO Others here are advancing the idea/question of "what is success" for the Cadets in 2018 For me - a well received show and they move up a couple places. I literally said the same thing last year and then back flip jesus happened - I still believe if they would have taken a different course during the final four weeks (edited and cleaned vs... added, added, added) the program would have grown during finals week instead of just sitting there. A couple programs ahead of them were very vulnerable if the right decisions would have been made. I'm sure that's part of what infuriated you and others

SCV for the gold. That's my prediction using the BD algorithm from 2007-present where they went 12112121121. The next in sequence is 2 and every time the number 2 comes up a different corps wins. Although it could be Cavaliers or Boston for gold but I think that's a bit further of a stretch right now. Just a few things from individual corps: BD- I liked the fresh direction of 2017 and would like to see more shows like this from them SCV- the power, precision, and intensity of 2017 with a more entertaining show design Crown- Lots and lots of brass. A lot of notes from brass that make my head spin. Good percussion. A great program design. Cavaliers- better brass, great execution otherwise like 2017 or better yet the 00s Cavaliers. A fun, but not dumb show design. Bluecoats- keep raising the bar being innovative. The past 5 years have been amazing and I want another year where I can say their show is my favorite Boston- Top their 2017 performance. Overhaul in talent with a show design that's just as easy to attach to.

Sorry, but if you only ever post negative comments on EVERYTHING...you don't get to make out like you're the victim after you're called out on it. Constructive criticism with a reasonable tone is fine. But if you're going to be negative all the time, maybe keep it to yourself. It gets old and predictable. This applies to every corps and every thread. Anyways, if you heard Cadets brass at camp, it was obvious they have an improved sound compared to 2017. And that's not surprising given they have 40-50 vets. And it's silly to say all horn lines sound good standing still. Are you saying you can't tell the difference between standing in front of a Crown horn arc and another corps? C'mon.

After taking a break from competitions in 2017, the Kilties Drum & Bugle Corps will be back at it in 2018. The all-ages corps took a breather from competing in 2017, in part due to finances. “I think a lot of people are feeling very energetic to be back at it again,” said Karen Cole, […] View the full article

All of the above!!! And I'll add these.... 1969 Yankee Rebels and their "Requiem for an Era" color presentation production. First use of a "split corps" and multiple tempos within one production. Changed what was possible, from a music and visual standpoint. A template for SCV's "Young Person's Guide" several years later. 1969 Boston Crusaders and Long Island Sunrisers... bringing mallet instruments to the field. (One could also point to Preston Scout House and their use of glockenspiels, years before 1969.) The advent of the "pit"... the front ensemble. Marching percussion has never been the same since. (It's better now, IMO. Feel free to disagree. LOL)

1999 Santa Clara Vanguard 2000 Blue Devils 2003 Phantom Regiment 2008 Phantom Regiment 2014 Bluecoats 2015 Bluecoats 2003 Cavaliers 2000 Cadets 2011 Carolina Crown 1999 Blue Devils

I skew old school! 1974 Anaheim Kingsmen-unbelievable 1975 Madison Scouts-power! 1976 Blue Devils-changed the game 1976 Bridgemen-changed the game, well in a different way 1984 Garfield-probably best show I have seen on the field 1984 Blue Devils-probably the second best show I have seen on the field 1986 Blue Devils-so clean 1989 Phantom-still remember the power! 1993 Star-changed the game 1995 Madison Scouts-pure emotion

I skew modern. In chronological order: Madison Scouts 1999 - Jesus Christ Superstar Santa Clara Vanguard 1999 - Inventions for a New Millennium Cavaliers 2006 - Machine Colts 2007 - Equinox Cavaliers 2007 - And So it Goes Blue Devils 2009 - 1930 Cavaliers 2010 - Mad World Bluecoats 2010 - Metropolis: The Future is Now Madison Scouts 2012 - Reframed Bluecoats 2013 - ...to Look for America

I feel like cheating, so here are my Top 10 pre- and post- 2000 (I choose this because of the official switch from G-Bugles to Bb instruments, though I know there were holdouts. Looking at you Racine Scouts. Actually, 2011's pretty impressive.) Pre-2000: 1. Roman Images 2. Defiant Heart 3. The Planets 4. Music of Barber and Bartok 5. Madison Scouts 1988 6. Inventions for a New Millennium 7. New World Symphony 8. Appalachian Spring 9. Blue Devils 1982 10. A Drum Corps Fan's Dream Post-2000: 1. TILT 2. Through a Glass, Darkly 3. The Zone 4. e=mc2 5. re:Rite of Spring 6. For the Common Good 7. Frameworks 8. Felleniesque 9. Spartacus 10. Mad World Favorite Years: 1989, 2011 Favorite Era: As an activity? Late 50's, early 60's. As an art? Right now. I like my art WEIRD.

If this were a list of which shows do I listen to/watch the most, it would be almost all Cadets shows. So, I'm being slightly dishonest here in trying to diversify my "Top 10" list. But I do love all these shows: Star of Indiana 1990 "Belshazzar's Feast" Cavaliers 1991 "Cavalier Anthems Advent Collection" Cadets 1992 "To Tame the Perilous Skies" Cadets 1993 "In the Spring, at the Time when Kings go off to War" Phantom Regiment 1993 "The Modern Imagination" Phantom Regiment 1996 "A Defiant Heart" Santa Clara Vanguard 1999 "Inventions for a New Millennium" Cavaliers 2004 "007" Phantom Regiment 2003 "Harmonic Journeys" Cadets 2011 "Between Angels and Demons"

Every time I have tried to do this in the past I have been unable to narrow it down to 10. So I decided to place a restriction on myself and allow only one show per corps. In chronological order: Cadets 84 Santa Clara 91 Crossmen 92 Madison 99 Blue Devils 00 Cavaliers 04 Crown 07 Phantom 08 Bluecoats 14 Blue Knights 14

No particular order and I'll give 12 Phantom '93 Phantom '96 Blue Devils '94 Blue Devils '03 Cadets '92 Cadets '93 SCV '89 SCV '97 SCV '99 Suncoast '88 VK '92 Star '93

12th: 1993 Colts 11th: 2005 Glassmen 10th: 1989 Freelancers 8th: 1977 Optimists 8th: 1996 Crossmen 7th: 1992 SCV 6th: 1999 Madison 5th: 2000 Boston 4th: 1979/80 Spirit (i always backtoback 'em, they're one big cool gig to me) 3rd: 1988 Devils 2nd: 2006 Phantom 1st: 2001 Cavaliers / 2000 Cadets all time Favorite Top Twelve of the Top 12. funny thing, the 4th place slot is the one I agonize over the most.

In no Specific Order: Bluecoats 2014 Blue Devils 07 Bluecoats 05 Madison Scount 95 Cadets 87 Cadets 11 Crown 05 Crown 13 Crown 14 Phantom 07 Phantom 10 Phantom 08 That's twelve.. and I haven't even gone that far back into the past.