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As someone also studying for his BM, I’m confused how someone could go to Juilliard and come away with such a two dimensional sense of what good music is. I’m Confused with several of your points, especially the one concerning tempo as it changes about maximum 5 times, a pretty average number for a full DCI show, which are rather short in comparison to other musical compositions. The show follows a standard form of Fast, Slow, a Dance section, and a triumphant finale; a tried and true musical journey if there ever was one. The music takes you through chaos (Metropolis), Loneliness and Sadness (ballad) and finally resolves in the finale. It’s pretty self explanatory. As far as melodies, I could probably sing almost the whole show for you. Not trying to come down to hard on you here, but frankly, when you come down on a show trying to use your credentials in order to establish an opinion as a factual analysis, it makes you seem pretty elitist. Sorry you didn’t enjoy. I’m gonna go listen to Babylon again!

No.

You should demand a refund from Juilliard.

“Impressive. Every word in that sentence was wrong.” – Luke Skywalker

There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.) It's clear that DCI audiences are suffering from this effect in a big way. Witness what DCI judges considered the pinnacle of shows in 2018 by awarding it a championship (SCV). Now I get that drum corps is more than just music—it's "art" (though I could make a case for why it really isn't, even at the highest levels). Drill, choreography, difficulty, etc. are all part of the activity. But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot. I've spent countless hours of my life studying, listening to, and performing music of all kinds. I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music—and what distinguishes good music from bad music. Contrary to popular belief, music isn't "in the ear of the beholder." It's entirely possible to judge it objectively and even place it (roughly) on a universal scale from bad to good. (If you're someone who believes the quality of music is entirely subjective, you're a hypocrite—because you logically must say the same about everything in life—which I'm sure you don't.) So on to SCV's show: I've watched it several times. Not dozens or hundreds of times—because remember the mere-exposure effect? I'm not going to destroy my judgement by watching it every day for the entire summer (like the corps members and staff do). The first criterion for great music is that—on the first listen—it moves you. If it doesn't, then it could easily be argued the music has failed. Some might argue that it's not just the music in drum corps that should move you, but the collective experience of music, drill, and choreography. Fair enough. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music. I watched SCV's show with an open heart and mind. I love SCV! I always have. And I give every show the benefit of the doubt because I want to be moved emotionally. When I watch a drum corps show, I want to have tears in my eyes. I don't give a flip about how cleanly a difficult move is executed. It's interesting, but that will never move me to tears. (That's a bit like trying to be moved to tears by a brilliantly-designed coffeepot—it ain't gonna happen.) While watching (and listening) to SCV's show, I paid attention. I focused on the melody (or absence of it), the harmonies, the transitions, the tempo changes—I sat back and let it wash over me without judgement. It left me cold and feeling completely flat. After hearing it the first time, I thought "Okay, I'm just not familiar with it." (There's that principle again!) So I watched/listened again. And again. And in what is a testament to the absolute sterility of the show's music, familiarity didn't help at all. Every time I listened to SCV's show, it was just as pointless and unemotional as the previous listening. Here's what I noticed, repeatedly: • There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—and by melodies, I mean a sustained melodic line lasting at least 8 bars (at the same tempo) that very clearly moves from point A to point B in an emotional arc. (Think of just about any Beatles song, any Rodgers & Hammerstein musical, or any Beethoven symphony.) Even after repeated views, I couldn't sing along with 2 bars of this show (and I have a good ear for remembering melodies). • There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—by this, I mean a chance to get into a groove—to feel the pulse of the music and actually have a chance to tap your foot or rock gently along with it. Tempo changes were so frequent they suggested a kind of musical schizophrenia—arrangements driven entirely by the drill and perceived difficulty. NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction. • There was no overall sense of continuity—no feeling of going on a journey from the beginning of the show to the logical conclusion. Despite the flowery descriptions creative staff come up with to justify their shows, SCV's show was quite literally like a long series of 1- or 2-second cuts in a video, each one jarring, seemingly designed to be as abrupt as possible. This was, plain and simple, an epic musical fail. (And therefore, a fail of a show—in spite of winning.) Some of you reading this will think I just don't get it. Okay—I'll humor you: I get cubist paintings. I get architecture by Frank Lloyd Wright. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. I have a very sophisticated musical ear. My favorite composer is Charles Ives—I've listened to his Concord Sonata hundreds of times—and every time I hear something I didn't hear before. (And trust me—Ives' Concord Sonata is light years ahead of any DCI show in sophistication.) Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago. When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it: 1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen. 2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings. 3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen. SCV's show had NONE of these qualities on the first hearing (or second, third, or fourth). which is why I call it an epic fail. What disturbs me even more than SCV performing this show (who has a long history of connecting emotionally with audiences through great music) is the fact that DCI judges apparently reward this "music" that is devoid of any characteristics of good music. Yes, I know—they're judging more than the music (I already acknowledged this), but the judging community has lost its way. Clearly judges are more focused on difficulty (in the form of chaotic, disjointed shows packed with tempo changes and 32nd-note runs) than they are on emotionally connecting with audiences. --- In many ways, I guess we've gotten what we deserve. It's widely acknowledged that young people today have an average attention span of seconds. Maybe show designers are catering to this? Maybe we—as an American species—have lost the ability to focus on something more than 10 seconds without needing an abrupt change? Listen to pop music today and it's clear that it exists on a level far lower in intelligence than it ever has in the past (just look at all the hit songs about nothing more than partying). Even the Academy Awards have officially decided movie audiences are dumb–they've created a new Oscar for "Best Popular Film." (Because a popular film can't be intelligent or have depth.) If anyone out there disagrees with my premise that SCV's show was a musical fail (and I'm sure hundreds or thousands do), feel free to explain (hopefully in more than single-syllable words) why you think it was great. Tell me how this show moved you emotionally. And as proof, record yourself singing some part of SCV's show and post the MP3 here. :-) (Corps members and staff who performed/arranged the show aren't allowed–your impartial judgement is long gone). Scott

I guess all other corps wish they could musically fail so epically.

Well 777, now you have a lot of stuff lumped into a growing pile (in this thread) of "I heard..." and "long ago ______ happened". There is a lot of hearsay being insinuated to be truth in a lot of the commentary in this thread. If you have facts that's all we'll and good but if you don't have factual knowledge of something, it can be dangerous to make it appear so, and public in a forum swirling with innuendo, assumption, supposition and so on. Few posters here are actually close enough to know an entire back story or have a good factual grasp of a variety of situations. A number of posters here would very much like others to think they are that close to all situations or have the facts. The "insiders" so to speak. I have difficulty believing some posters are that tuned in to so many corps inner workings.

We have a service where a truck drives by and picks up post season MM laundry at the curb. So far though, none of it has ever come back...

When it was announced who won the Zingali Award for Best Guard at the DCI Championships, that got a lot of " love" by the Finals audience there it appeared as well.

And it must be great to have that for over 20 years in a row. And I'm sure you understand why those of us from other parts of the country feel like DCI doesn't give a crap about our experiences.

This is about the dumbest thing I've read on here...and I've read some pretty dumb stuff...

after reading the first 5 paragraphs, i'm pretty sure I disagree with you on multiple levels. I felt lots of groove, i was moved emotionally, and I cant stop humming the ballad and closer. so your 1-3 towards the end of your dissertation i disagree with every one 10000%. And this from a guy who has #####ed about DCI arranging for years

Don, I am sorry you are having to defend yourself in this forum. This kind of thing represents the worst side of this Forum. People who, anonymously for the most part, spread half-truths, idle gossip, and dirty laundry here. People who think they know something and mostly don't. As Don said in an earlier post; these are real people you are talking about. A good friend of mine described drum corps as "Politics for Peanuts." Outside of the 10-12 people who can actually support themselves through this activity, the rest of us do it out of love for the activity, an honest desire to give young people the best possible experience doing something that is incredibly difficult mentally, physically, and spiritually. That applies to staff people as well. It really sucks that people can be so thoughtless and reckless. For the meager wages that DC pays, you too can have your reputation damaged, have a bunch of dilettantes say really nasty things, and call for your public firing. The people who do this go into it with the best of intentions. In 34 years of doing this, its my observation that very rarely the case that people do it for any other reason than the love of it, period. Sometimes things work out great sometimes they don't. That's life. When people put themselves out there and enter the arena its always a gamble. That's the nature of what this is. Its unfortunate that people who post stuff with qualifiers like, "I heard....", "Someone told me....", etc. are allowed to do so. People who teach drum corps are mostly poorly paid public educators and teach because its their passion. People who teach drum corps sacrifice a great deal to follow their passion. Believe me, the price tag is high on every possible level. With the advent of forums like this, part of the price tag is to have people "who heard" or think they have some juicy gossip say, publicly, some really awful things. Part of the price tag is to deal, on the road, with things that are said here. It's seriously the ugliest and most unpleasant part of this activity. It's a real shame. For the people who so easily call for people's public firing and shaming; I hope it happens to you. You deserve to know what that feels like. J. Buckingham

Maybe this will answer the OP questions. (Apologies for formatting - technology is not cooperating today.) Summary - all corps pay and other funds paid out from DCI to individual corps Rates listed are the standards in place for the 2017 season. Appearance Fees – corps are paid for event performances based on the following scales: World Class: · Standard rate: $2,600 per event. · Standard non-member rate: $1,800 per event. Used for a corps who is participating on the World Class tour but is not a full voting member. · Standard rate for events designated as “Tour of Champions”: $5,000 per event. Open Class: · Standard rate for contracted tour events – mixed events with primarily World Class corps: $1,100 for Open Class Finalist and $700 for Non-Finalist. (Non-finalists include locally based groups that do not travel to Championships.) New or re-emerging corps receive $0 in their first year. · Standard rate for contracted tour events – Open Class events: appearance fees vary. Pay is based on a pool of payout dollars generated from the specific contracts (Total contract value less Admin fees) and is shared by the corps appearing in those contracted events. All Age: Standard – a mixture of rates, some of which are grandfathered in from old pay scales – typically ranging from $0 to $500 but may be as high as $1,700 for a top DCA level finalist. Allocation pool – Pool created out of DCI revenue distributed to World Class member corps based on a formula (see below). All active World Class member corps receive a portion of the pool. The amount of the pool is determined during the annual Budget & Planning cycle and approved by the Board. The stated intent of the Allocation pool system is to reward both historical contributions of individual corps as well as “marketability” based on recent results. A summary of the steps in the formula: · The formula includes all placements from 1972 to the present. o Eligible placements are: current World Class, former Division I or original Open Class Top 25. Corps that are temporarily inactive continue to be included in the pool calculations. o Not included: Any placements for corps outside of the Top 25 or any Class A/Class A-60/ Division II & III / new Open Class or any All Age groups. Also not included: any World Class corps who have gone inactive or move out of the World Class for an extended period of time. · Based on the placements, points are awarded on scales that combine similar competitive ranges. For 1972 through 2001 (30 years), a placement of 1 – 6 earns 40 points, 7 – 12 earns 30 points, 13 – 17 earns 5 points, 18 and above do not earn points. From 2002 to the present, the points were expanded at the lower levels so that 13 – 17 earns 15 points and 18 – 21 earns 5 points. 22nd + remain at 0 points. · Each year’s placements are weighted. 1972 = 1; 1973 = 2, 1974 = 3 and so on. The most recent 3 years are “super weighted” at a rate of 100 / 150 / 150. · A cumulative number of points are calculated for each corps. The ratio of the number of an individual corps’ point total compared to the grand total of all corps is the percentage used when paying out the total pool. For example: if a corps’ point total equals 5% of the total of all points, then that corps will receive 5% of the funds in the allocation pool. Championships – pay based on final placement: Finalist (1 – 12) $8,500; 13 – 17 $6,500; 18 – 21 $4,000; 22+ $2,150 Note: if an Open Class corps places higher than a World Class corps in a mixed event such as Prelims; the World Class pay is not reduced; it is determined by placement within the World Class. Championships – mileage – a pool of $50,000 allocated based on the number of miles from a corps’ home base of operation to that year’s Championship location. Payout eligibility: World Class member corps.

You should feel most welcome to express your opinion, but it really is just that, no matter how many theories you cite. Plenty of music now considered great was panned by the public and/or the critics upon its first hearing, and plenty of music once admired is now dismissed.

I'm big... very big... on protecting individual rights, and am no ally on Big Gov't or Biz, Universities, snooping on private citizens without their consent, nor denying them their Revolution won, blood spilled, Rights of Speech, Religion, Peaceable Assembly, Press, Right to Bear Arms, etc. However... when its a balancing act of Rights between applicants for Employment, and protecting the most vulnerable among us, ie the Children, Minors, I fall on the side of protecting the most vulnerable. No applicant is required to forceably make Application to any Corps that might ask them these questions. They can freely opt out of making Application to such Corps if they believe this is too intrusive for them personally to participate here in such questions, and demand for afidavit signings. When one makes application, for example, for Life Insurance, or Health Insurance, Companies are legally authorized to ask on the Application all manner of personal questions, including prior convictions, hazardous or risky hobbies, marital status, travel plans, exercise or lack thereof habits, prior ( and current ) drug useage, and dozens of other personal assessment questions. This is done to protect the Companies Rghts to properly evaluate the Risk to them, and to assign appropriate premiums to be paid for approving the Risk to them. So if Companies can be legally allowed to ask sensitive and private questions to protect their Companies and Shareholders, I see no reason at all why Drum Corps can not ask similarly private and sensitive questions to protect the Children/ Minors in their charge.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

On page 6 of this thread, MarimbaManiac suggested that composers like Persichetti, Sessions, Cage, Stravinsky, etc can't be considered avante-garde anymore. I disagree! - That's fine. You're allowed to be wrong. Maybe they aren't considered avante-garde in music schools, but (in case you didn't notice) the general public never got as far as any of those composers. So in that sense they absolutely are (still) avant garde. - Ok, so facts and definitions of terms are now predicated on what the majority of the general uneducated public knows about those terms? Am I being trolled, are you actually Donald Trump? You think John Cage is "old school?" Try performing his Third Construction flawlessly. - Level of difficulty of performance has nothing to do with whether something is avant-garde or not (also I never said old-school, that's your term). And what about a piece like Frederic Rzewski's Les Moutons de Panurge? You think that's old school??? It's every bit as "innovative" as anything with that label today. - You're allowed that opinion, but again you would be wrong. Sorry—forgot to add: I really don't think my Juilliard degree means much... - This I agree with. I only mentioned it to show that I'm not a musical amateur, but someone with somewhat high-level musical training and professional performing experience. - Dude, you have a Bachelors degree in (I'm assuming) Percussion Performance. So you have a lot of experience playing and interpreting a narrow swath of orchestral rep, and a general knowledge of music history and theory up through the second world war. That's about it. Whether you got that degree at Juilliard, Indiana, North Texas, or any other accredited public program doesn't matter, the curriculum is the same. Not super swayed by your appeal to authority. Your knowledge of contemporary music is limited. Your understanding of the term avant-garde, and everything that happened after post-modernism is lacking. Take a listen to Brian Ferneyhough, Beat Furrer, Georges Aperghis, Luciano Berio, Helmut Lachenmann, Harry Partch, Unsuk Chin, Alvin Lucier, Pauline Oliveros, Jonty Harrison, Grisey, Saariaho, Haas....SO MANY OTHERS. People who are alive today, or who have contributed to actual avant-garde music in the last 50 years. Because of your attempts to appeal to your authority, and your lacking of understanding of these basic musical ideals, and subsequent dismissal of the Vanguard's music based on your wildly fallacious assumptions, your entire argument is moot.

That same article also admitted the exact opposite: "It would be extremely difficult to replicate these systems since many states utilize unique networks and custom-built databases with new and updated security protocols." And more importantly, these websites are only places where results are reiterated for the public. They are not voting machines or official vote counts. These election hacking stories need to be read carefully. Gloss over a few words, and you could end up believing Russian 5th-graders pick our entire government for us.

He does have plenty of insight. More than me or a lot of posters who post their opinions on here. Where he falls short is he doesn’t realize what he is writing is his opinion

I think you'd agree that the love for Cadets was also because they were very good.

I'm not going to take the time to respond to the content of your post, because frankly it's subjective, however let me point out a few fallacies that you've committed: I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music—and what distinguishes good music from bad music. - False. A Bachelors degree means you have a basic overarching understanding of music. As someone with multiple advanced degrees in music I can tell you that you don't actually dig into the deeper questions in music until you get further along in your education. Maybe you should consider going back to school if you would like a more robust understanding of music. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music.- That's your opinion. Some would argue it's to cohesiveness of the audio and visual that makes drum corps compelling. It left me cold and feeling completely flat. - Cool story, others (myself included) would agree. There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—So? It's 2018. Melodies have been out of fashion for several decades in contemporary music. Get with the times. There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—Again, so? Following themes in contemporary music, consistent tempos (or time signatures/tempos/coordinated events in general) have been on the way out for a while. Composers that can create cohesive threads that hold pieces together without using a gridded pulse are praised. NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction. - It's time to update your definition of avante-garde man. Even the Cage is 80 years old at this point. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. Seriously, you're looking very silly right now. Do you actually consider these composers 'challenging?' IT'S 2018, NONE OF THESE COMPOSERS CAN BE CONSIDERED CONTEMPORARY OR AVANTE-GARDE AT THIS POINT. Maybe if you had continued your education past a B.M. you would be more up to date with current trends in contemporary music. Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago. - Oh really? You sure about that? When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it: - Yes you can, it's called innovation and experimentation, and it's what composers have been doing for the last century. The elimination of tempo, pitch even-tempered tuning systems, time, form, and space; the eschewing of traditional instruments, the creation of purely electronic genres (both popular and academic), the creation of purely graphical scores that require interpretation and improvisation, are all strategies that compsoers and artists have employed that fundamentally change the way music is created and experienced, and evolve the art-form beyond common practice structure. 1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen. 2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings. 3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen. Your narrow definition of what constitutes musical expression is limited and fallacious. It ignores 100 years of experimentation and creation by a plethora of composers and the achievements that have been made in Spectralism, Flux, Electroacoustics and Acousmatics, Microtonality, Improvisation, Mixed Media, Non-Syntactical Vocal Music, New Complexity, and countless other sub-genres and movements. You are more than welcome to your option, but this diatribe that tries to leverage your supposed experience in music is ignorant and insulting to those who have spent their lives researching and creating new modes of musical expression. Take your Bachelor's degree and hit the road man.

My perspective is from being present at LOS for all 3 performances and being seated higher up (prelims 436, semis 640 at the 50, finals 640 at the 50.) Cadets ovations were stronger in the more adult populated areas than in the group sales teenage areas. Kids didn't have the same sentimental reaction to Z-pull or Rocky Point insert or the traditional uniform. Adults had a greater sense of the repercussions of what the corps went through this season where kids tend to deal more in the present moment. (Not condescending comment by motive, just an observation as an experienced high school teacher and college lecturer.) Many off the thirty-five yard line seating could not see the person wearing the traditional uniform. Allentown ovation had greater emotional impact due to being closer to the audience than in the LOS canyon. There also may have been more alumni present in person. It also was the first time for the three changes; Claire as DM on the podium wore the traditional uniform...it was her birthday and the staff fulfilled her birthday wish. Many of LOS crowd knew the "surprises" were coming as they had been marched for a week already.

While your theory is interesting, it fails to include one simple ingredient: personal taste. I'm not a fan of The Beatles, Elvis Presley, or Michael Jackson. Personally, their music falls flat and does not stir me at all. But they have millions of fans who totally disagree with me because of taste. I saw SCV one time all summer. I didn't understand the show, but I liked it. It grooved, it raised up and down, and it sounds brilliant to me.

D E N V E R

A limit on the number of seconds a show can use pre-recorded singing as part of the musical score. If singing is key to an arrangement, it should be done live, just like any other soloist.

Why? What if the Corps mission is to provide an education via musical performance? It's not always about placements and medals.

I saw SCV only one time this season, on the Thursday cinecast. For me, they had one of those "I'm not familiar with a single note they're playing, but they're pretty cool and really good" types of shows. Honestly, I enjoyed Blue Devils' show more... I found it more fun and easier to follow... but SCV hardly was a "musical fail." LOL. They were relentless, from the first note to the last, and a deserving champion.

Totally off topic but thought you guys would enjoy

My two highlight crowd moments: The SCV encore was extreme bliss. The crowd that remained were all who were completely smitten with the show and we were banded together in nirvana. That moment was truly a highlight of my life. Crazy magical when they performed send in the clowns afterwards... The other awesome moment was Thursday night Cadets; the crowd leapt to their feet during the zipper at the end in pure happiness. My personal thrills were the color guard performance of Boston Crusaders and the leg gal of Phantom Regiment. Have I mentioned yet just how GREAT great great this year was? Every corps was just awesome....I am still high from three days of awesomeness.

I'm not buying the "Cadets got an ovation because of the CRAP they had to endure" at the start of the season. If that was really the case WHY did the ovation start well before the end of their show? I stated in another thread that I would have been standing for Cadets for that very reason, BUT prior to finals week I stated I would be standing "because they had become soooo dammmm gooood." They performed at a higher level each night of the championships and their closer became MAGNIFICENT and most worthy of the thousands of fans I saw standing well before the show was over. From my seat the most "crowd love" was sent to Bloo, SCV and CADETS....because they were all sooo dammm gooood.

and they aren't even all there: Where's P. Dunk??? Funny true story. While I awaited my flight home Sunday in the lobby, there were 4 BAC mms at the next table conversing with us back and forth as we downed lunch. They lost their's in laughter when I was giving unofficial names to each of the finalists' shows. They agreed and said a tee shirt should be made: "Leon learns to spell!" All in good, clean fun. Great show, great performance. Crowd and I loved it.

"He's still salty" Crown lost their staff

I actually think SCV deserved the win believe it or not.

As someone with a formidable number of gold stars from fourth grade piano lessons, I really liked the mellophones.

Hey all, now that the season is over I thought I'd share what they were playing with back in March/April while they were still developing the show. Interesting to hear what was used and later cut. Personally, I wish they extended the Laura piece like you'll hear below. You can also hear how some of the Metropolis 1927 piece still survived after many rewrites. Intro Intro cont. Harlem Laura Unused snippet Metropolis

I think a lot of us are just glad to see SCV finally win another one. And did you HEAR THAT MELLO SUSTAIN? Perhaps you turn up your nose at such things as a highly trained musician with BM from Juilliard. Me, I'm just a cretin. I like things that make my pulse go up. Like THAT MELLO SUSTAIN DID YOU HEAR THAT ?!?!?!!!!

By “new music”, I mean seeing the group perform repertoire they have not previously performed. Playing sections and quotes from historic Cadet programs of old was appropriate for 2018. A smart and compassionate programming choice to unite alumni and fans. That having been done, I want the design team to look outside past rep and compositional techniques. It’s good to push the walls back of the box that the audience thinks you live in and explore a greater variety of musical content and effect.

Thanks, SWriverstone, for letting me know how misguided I have been! I will endeavor to un-love SCV's show, starting right now!

What you think should have happened and when you think it should have happened is not as simple as you put it. Alum have been walking away from the corps for years during his tenure, and it took for something like this to happen for him to leave because of how egregious and illegal it was. I don't remember him committing any crimes other than what was reported in the paper so I suspect that's probably why he wasn't ousted a long time ago. Regardless. He's gone now, alumni have been very grateful and supportive of Scott Litzenberg, and I am confident that the new director will do what he can to get alumni to rally around keeping the organization for another 80+ years.

There is no "civil right" to hide a history of sexually or otherwise inappropriate behavior from an employer whose business could be jeopardized by having you work with them. Those who, for whatever reason, don't feel confident that their past stands up to scrutiny would likely take a pass on signing the form, in which case it would already have done its work. In either case, it'd be their choice.

It was a deliberate strategy back in the tic era to keep the judges away.

They work with kids, many of them underage. So yes, screw their “civil rights.”

kids see DCP, forums and Facebook, as the grumpy old men society

We also need these back: that’s right...it’s a Buick.

On a lighter note I hear John Williams will be scoring original music based loosely on the Indiana Jones series for a drum corps yet to be named. Spielberg and his crew will build the set pieces and direct the stage production (for field). ILM will use blue/green screens to capture images and video against the corps, and the music and marching staff are yet to be determined. Bill Gates is handling the negotiations. Stay tuned! :)

OPEN CLASS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCORES. moving them back to Open Class takes away a HUGE chunk of their income. you move them there, you kill the corps.

Proud Dad of a 2nd Gen Devil

I think you overestimate here. 1st drum corps people can be the best and support just because BUT they can have no mercy. Just look at some posts that claim " Oh we aren't talking about the kids" I call that BS. it's an excuse for bad behavior most of the time. With that said Cadets earned every bit of the reception. I have always said a thick skin is needed. Look at the thread with some tearing apart SCV. Man their Gold medal isn't even cold yet. Liahona pointed out with BAC that their guard win was still in its 1st moments and there were those who plainly said they actually didn't win guard the night of finals and even pointed out the weird averages. I've have been involved a very long time and if the crowd didn't think Cadets deserved the overwhelming support for their show it wouldn't have lasted even a quarter of the season. Maybe at 1st it would have but people have very short memories. When Cavies dropped a bit there were all the armchair designers BUT as they start to climb and support comes back. Boston was the darling dropping to almost not making finals, they get a new staff and tons of critics, Again a darling last year for sure and many loved them this year, watch what happens as they get closer to a top spot. I do get what you are saying BUT it can be asked then in 2008 was PR great enough to win with their show OR was it anyone but BD ( which some said ) Blue C. same can be said Did people really love BAC in 2017 or was it that people love an underdog making a jump that most never do Cadets 2011 was it the show or BD losing ( that can be said any year I guess) This year. SCV all the same questions could be asked I say corps earned their spots...JMO ( no need to nitpick any of these examples, it's not about the corps used ,just example of a point) There are many examples of this so was it these things? or emotion. Could be a little of both BUT I can say Drum Corps fans can also be brutally honest sometimes so if it were just emotion I think that would have faded very fast. Championships are over and I also find it interesting the renewed and outrage on certain issues which literally went quiet as soon as the season started. Oh well, human nature I suppose.