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Meanwhile, in Santa Clara:

A corps wearing their classic uniform would almost be innovative at this point.

First: I apologize in advance because I didn't have time to read 14 pages of replies. I literally have 15 minutes to try to reply coherently, and I feel compelled to do so now because this topic is of great interest to me, but my time the rest of this week is very limited. (inservice days and preparing my materials for day 1 next week!) second: I have a BM and MM in Music Theory with a minor in music history. I am a choir director, band director, and I teach general music as well, all in grades 3-12. I also teach an 11th grade human aesthetics block called "History Through Music." I'm starting year 20 this year. That said, I disagree with the original post on several fronts. 1) Music's "quality": It is well known in music theory circles that many researchers attempt to codify music for "quality." Schenker, for example, was a German theorist who attempted to prove the "quality" of music based on its underlying harmonic principles, and music of "German" styles were, by his measure, meant to be seen as better in "quality." I won't go into the details, but spending a year in grad school working on Schenker graphs taught me that this method of discerning "quality" was often arbitrary and sometimes highly contrived. MY POINT: Music's "quality" is not something that we can codify completely by any particular system. 2) Musical "taste": I generally have a distaste for Mozart. Mozart's music is high in "quality" but low on my "taste" measure. I can hear the quality of it but I don't have to like it. Many people have difficulty recognizing or ascribing quality when music doesn't fit their taste. The more educated a person is about music (self educated can be just as good, IMO) the more they can accept this difference. I also don't like the Carpenters much, but I recognize the harmonic beauty in combination with creative melodies that sometimes suspend and resolve in unusual ways. So, the Blue Stars show wasn't as interesting to me from a musical standpoint (except for the more esoteric piece by Carpenter), but I recognize the value of the music. 3) Regularity of rhythm is NOT a measure of quality: I'm not sure if I missed a detail in the OP, so I may be off base here. Regularity and irregularity of rhythm have certain effects, and neither is a requirement for "quality." The intentionality of the rhythm is what is important. Shostakovich, Stravinsky, and hundreds of other modern composers will play with rhythm in jarring ways for effect. Entire pieces are written without a sense of beat - "Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima" by Penderecki, for one very important example. Webern and others of the serialist style intentionally avoided beat. (and I struggle with taste in regard to those pieces, but their historical significance can't be overstated - the emancipation of music from long-evolving rules of harmony and form was needed, and that purpose was served by the work of serialist composers) Now, to address SCV's show: I find most DCI shows to have the same problem of "chopped up" musical examples that flow somewhat poorly. SCV is no exception to that problem. It is very rare that I feel that a show flows so well as a whole that I am swept away into a musical landscape that feels whole. 2007 Crown (Triple Crown) is one example, along with 2009 SCV (beautifully rendered Appalachian Spring show with clear thought as to the original music and movement), and I forget the year but SCV's recent Les Mis show all fit those examples for me. FOR ME. And that brings me to my last point: it is good that people attempt to discern their measure of quality. We should all do that. But for hundreds of years music theorists have argued over musical "quality" and nobody has discovered a magic formula. Music's effect on the brain is simultaneously well documented and mysterious. But drum corps is about the whole package - visual intrigue, movement, showcases of individual groups, etc. I think it's clear to many of us who have followed the activity for decades that the days of "audio only" enjoyment are becoming rarer. Is that a musical "fail", or is that the nature of how shows must be designed to suit boxes evaluated by judges? I'm not sure I have an answer to that one. My 15 minutes are up. Hopefully I'll have time to catch up on this discussion late this evening.

As someone also studying for his BM, I’m confused how someone could go to Juilliard and come away with such a two dimensional sense of what good music is. I’m Confused with several of your points, especially the one concerning tempo as it changes about maximum 5 times, a pretty average number for a full DCI show, which are rather short in comparison to other musical compositions. The show follows a standard form of Fast, Slow, a Dance section, and a triumphant finale; a tried and true musical journey if there ever was one. The music takes you through chaos (Metropolis), Loneliness and Sadness (ballad) and finally resolves in the finale. It’s pretty self explanatory. As far as melodies, I could probably sing almost the whole show for you. Not trying to come down to hard on you here, but frankly, when you come down on a show trying to use your credentials in order to establish an opinion as a factual analysis, it makes you seem pretty elitist. Sorry you didn’t enjoy. I’m gonna go listen to Babylon again!

No.

The ridiculousness of this all is just plain silly. Should we censor all the DCI championship videos of Cadets too, because you can see GH pacing the sidelines? What a waste of time and energy this is. Sweeping GH under carpet and erasing him from history doesn't do anything to move the conversation FORWARD.

In the interest of getting some actual facts out there (albeit dated, in some cases), I've downloaded the financial reports from Guidestar (the free version, not the premium version), and below is a chart of the 40 corps from this year's championships, their 2018 placement, the year of their most recent Form 990 on Guidestar, their revenues reported for that year, and any "Loans & Notes" listed under liabilities. This is all publicly available data, and can be obtained for free by anyone. Caveats: I am not an accountant. To the extent I may have misstated anything herein, or to the extent the below does not present an accurate picture of a corps' current finances, I welcome any corps (or anyone more knowledgeable about these) to offer corrective or updated information. Mostly, I did not review the individual 990s for each corps, but took the info from the Guidestar report of the 990 data Most of the 990s are 2-3 years old, and some corps have undergone substantial changes in that time With regard to the Loans & Notes, those numbers sometimes fluctuated greatly from year to year, so the numbers may not be representative of a corps' present situation Many of the 990s are for the parent organization, which may encompass several different programs, each with their own separate revenues and expenses (eg. - Santa Clara, Blue Devils, Cadets, Colts, etc., have more than one corps; Cadets' also includes the USBands circuit; etc.) some corps may have additional sources of revenue that are not reported on their 990, such as an alumni or "friends of" group that may buy things directly for the corps' benefit (eg. they might buy food and supplied for the corps on the road; Shadow is supported by a school district, in addition to the Oregon Band Boosters; etc.) Corps 2018 990 Year Income Loans&Notes Santa Clara Vanguard 1 2016 $4,586,872 ($518,614) Blue Devils 2 2015 $3,341,991 $0 Bluecoats 3 2016 $2,073,202 ($621,091) Carolina Crown 4 2015 $2,314,264 ($379,719) Boston Crusaders 5 2016 $2,855,336 ($1,676,811) Cavaliers 6 2016 $1,221,329 ($168,668) Cadets 7 2015 $5,442,229 ($430,741) Blue Stars 8 2016 $1,318,407 ($367,353) Blue Knights 9 2016 $1,644,938 ($72,412) Mandarins 10 2015 $819,467 $0 Phantom Regiment 11 2016 $1,313,707 ($46,224) Crossmen 12 2016 $1,279,912 ($66,752) Spirit of Atlanta 13 2016 $924,113 ($170,868) Colts 14 2017 $1,560,621 ($290,034) Academy 15 2015 $887,181 $0 Madison Scouts 16 2017 $1,206,904 ($253,167) Troopers 17 2016 $905,448 ($368,174) Vanguard Cadets 18 see above Blue Devils B 19 see above Pacific Crest 20 2015 $1,020,506 ($10,430) Music City 21 2016 $483,964 ($25,000) Oregon Crusaders 22 2016 $864,067 ($113,063) Gold 23 2015 $316,056 $0 Genesis 24 2016 $575,100 $0 Spartans 25 2017 $629,834 ($21,746) Legends 26 2012 $464,945 ($198,743) Seattle Cascades 27 2016 $580,836 $0 7th Regiment 28 2016 $258,923 $0 Guardians 29 could not locate Jersey Surf 30 2015 $612,791 $0 Louisiana Stars 31 2016 $318,032 $0 River City Rhythym 32 2015 $296,473 $0 Southwind 33 2015 $199,985 ($13,820) Jubal 34 n/a Golden Empire 35 part of Bakersfield College Foundation Pioneer 36 2016 $381,126 $0 Shadow 37 2016 $305,379 $0 Colt Cadets 38 see above Raiders 39 2016 $253,755 ($23,500) Heat Wave 40 2015 $74,271 $0

I don’t think Mandarins are named after the orange…

This thread, along with other threads and posts I’ve seen inspired me to do the following retrospective. Enjoy! Common DCP comments on SCV during 2012-2016 timeframe: They need to take more risks, c’mon your name is vanguard for darn sake They need to do pieces that haven’t been done in DCI before - let’s hear something new vanguard! They need to develop more complex show concepts to be a medal contender They need to truly integrate props into their show and not have them solely as decorative pieces 2017-2018: vanguard takes a new direction, takes more risks, plays new source material, fully integrates props into drill, and creates more complex show designs. Medals for first time in 13 years (2017). Wins championship for first time in 19 years (2018). Common DCP comments in 2017-2018: Your music feels cold/sterile and overly aggressive - I miss the melodic SCV Your integration of props is awesome, but devils and coats have already been doing this. You perform at a high level, but you’re not innovating Dang you’re a tough crowd DCP!! I thoroughly enjoyed, connected emotionally with, and was in awe of the performance I saw in person this year. I certainly don't expect everyone to feel that way, but the audience reactions throughout the summer, and the judge assessments of the program suggests they were doing something right musically for many listeners.

There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.) It's clear that DCI audiences are suffering from this effect in a big way. Witness what DCI judges considered the pinnacle of shows in 2018 by awarding it a championship (SCV). Now I get that drum corps is more than just music—it's "art" (though I could make a case for why it really isn't, even at the highest levels). Drill, choreography, difficulty, etc. are all part of the activity. But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot. I've spent countless hours of my life studying, listening to, and performing music of all kinds. I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music—and what distinguishes good music from bad music. Contrary to popular belief, music isn't "in the ear of the beholder." It's entirely possible to judge it objectively and even place it (roughly) on a universal scale from bad to good. (If you're someone who believes the quality of music is entirely subjective, you're a hypocrite—because you logically must say the same about everything in life—which I'm sure you don't.) So on to SCV's show: I've watched it several times. Not dozens or hundreds of times—because remember the mere-exposure effect? I'm not going to destroy my judgement by watching it every day for the entire summer (like the corps members and staff do). The first criterion for great music is that—on the first listen—it moves you. If it doesn't, then it could easily be argued the music has failed. Some might argue that it's not just the music in drum corps that should move you, but the collective experience of music, drill, and choreography. Fair enough. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music. I watched SCV's show with an open heart and mind. I love SCV! I always have. And I give every show the benefit of the doubt because I want to be moved emotionally. When I watch a drum corps show, I want to have tears in my eyes. I don't give a flip about how cleanly a difficult move is executed. It's interesting, but that will never move me to tears. (That's a bit like trying to be moved to tears by a brilliantly-designed coffeepot—it ain't gonna happen.) While watching (and listening) to SCV's show, I paid attention. I focused on the melody (or absence of it), the harmonies, the transitions, the tempo changes—I sat back and let it wash over me without judgement. It left me cold and feeling completely flat. After hearing it the first time, I thought "Okay, I'm just not familiar with it." (There's that principle again!) So I watched/listened again. And again. And in what is a testament to the absolute sterility of the show's music, familiarity didn't help at all. Every time I listened to SCV's show, it was just as pointless and unemotional as the previous listening. Here's what I noticed, repeatedly: • There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—and by melodies, I mean a sustained melodic line lasting at least 8 bars (at the same tempo) that very clearly moves from point A to point B in an emotional arc. (Think of just about any Beatles song, any Rodgers & Hammerstein musical, or any Beethoven symphony.) Even after repeated views, I couldn't sing along with 2 bars of this show (and I have a good ear for remembering melodies). • There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—by this, I mean a chance to get into a groove—to feel the pulse of the music and actually have a chance to tap your foot or rock gently along with it. Tempo changes were so frequent they suggested a kind of musical schizophrenia—arrangements driven entirely by the drill and perceived difficulty. NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction. • There was no overall sense of continuity—no feeling of going on a journey from the beginning of the show to the logical conclusion. Despite the flowery descriptions creative staff come up with to justify their shows, SCV's show was quite literally like a long series of 1- or 2-second cuts in a video, each one jarring, seemingly designed to be as abrupt as possible. This was, plain and simple, an epic musical fail. (And therefore, a fail of a show—in spite of winning.) Some of you reading this will think I just don't get it. Okay—I'll humor you: I get cubist paintings. I get architecture by Frank Lloyd Wright. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. I have a very sophisticated musical ear. My favorite composer is Charles Ives—I've listened to his Concord Sonata hundreds of times—and every time I hear something I didn't hear before. (And trust me—Ives' Concord Sonata is light years ahead of any DCI show in sophistication.) Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago. When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it: 1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen. 2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings. 3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen. SCV's show had NONE of these qualities on the first hearing (or second, third, or fourth). which is why I call it an epic fail. What disturbs me even more than SCV performing this show (who has a long history of connecting emotionally with audiences through great music) is the fact that DCI judges apparently reward this "music" that is devoid of any characteristics of good music. Yes, I know—they're judging more than the music (I already acknowledged this), but the judging community has lost its way. Clearly judges are more focused on difficulty (in the form of chaotic, disjointed shows packed with tempo changes and 32nd-note runs) than they are on emotionally connecting with audiences. --- In many ways, I guess we've gotten what we deserve. It's widely acknowledged that young people today have an average attention span of seconds. Maybe show designers are catering to this? Maybe we—as an American species—have lost the ability to focus on something more than 10 seconds without needing an abrupt change? Listen to pop music today and it's clear that it exists on a level far lower in intelligence than it ever has in the past (just look at all the hit songs about nothing more than partying). Even the Academy Awards have officially decided movie audiences are dumb–they've created a new Oscar for "Best Popular Film." (Because a popular film can't be intelligent or have depth.) If anyone out there disagrees with my premise that SCV's show was a musical fail (and I'm sure hundreds or thousands do), feel free to explain (hopefully in more than single-syllable words) why you think it was great. Tell me how this show moved you emotionally. And as proof, record yourself singing some part of SCV's show and post the MP3 here. :-) (Corps members and staff who performed/arranged the show aren't allowed–your impartial judgement is long gone). Scott

Of course the title of this thread caught my eye - and obviously a lot of people's eyes based on the pages and pages of responses. (which I am still reading). The above part of OP's post is all I agree with. The rest of it just sounds like sour grapes to me. Considering OP's opinion, it is rather ironic that Vanguard's rendering of 'My Body Is a Cage' affected me emotionally more deeply than any other!. It is the earworm that is the most lasting.

Check out this fantastic article published today by the Silicon Valley Voice on SCV's victory and the Vanguard organization's historic week. https://www.svvoice.com/nearly-two-decades-of-santa-clara-vanguard-drought-ends-in-indianapolis/

1. Music City 2. Cadets 3. Bluecoats 4. Crown 5. BD 6. Tie SCV and Troopers I had to make a tie because I couldn’t leave either of them off my list.

OH MY GAWD!

Tens of thousands of fans stood and cheered as the 2018 Bluecoats ended their season at the Drum Corps International World Championships in Indianapolis on Saturday night. The show – Session 44 – was about the performer’s journey. It came to a fitting end as 154 Bluecoats performers came face-to-face with a roaring crowd. Bringing […] View the full article

No one here attacked you. Your emotionally charged post included misleading statements and additional questions were required to figure out what you were referring to. People were, under the circumstances, quite patient with you. No one circled the wagons either. I myself sent a message to their YouTube contact to call their attention to the situation, partly because after being asked twice if you had done so yourself, you failed to say that you had, referring instead to Instagram.

hold on there scout. i think you don't realize who you're talking to as one of YEA's BIGGEST critics on here since, oh, 2002 when DCP launched. Now...do i disagree with you it should ave been an easy fix? Yes, i do in many ways. I also realize since April, they've been short staffed more than normal, no formal ceo for the company just two corps directors, and their role now is just about the corps, not the entire organization. so while I agree, yes it needs done, i do realize they have had a few FAR MORE pressing issues to deal with, and their social media team was most likely on the road all summer. sometimes a simple phone call accomplishes a lot more than a nasty email or complaints on a chat board

Why are people harping about others making comments on what they notice and accusing them of trolling or stirring the pot. Maybe this thread should be closed down if everyone is going to be so sensitive. I just see it as some people trying to share their two cents. This thread is already proving from real staff member posts that perhaps we as a forum are crossing the line. I think we can be civil about it, but when we jump on each other, it's no better than the speculations that are being made in this thread about staffing next year.

I think the worst part about this yearly post is when you find out you're being let go through rumors before youre actually notified. Im still gonna read it every year lol.

The ovation Cadets received was more related to their show than to anything they went through. Sure, early in the season I felt many in attendance were pulling for them for what occurred in the off-season. But, truly, the crowd reaction late in the year was a product of the tremendous show they performed. The Cadets show drew in audience members and generated an organic response. It was great to see and a show I won't soon forget.

1) It was amazing for more information, see #1

after reading the first 5 paragraphs, i'm pretty sure I disagree with you on multiple levels. I felt lots of groove, i was moved emotionally, and I cant stop humming the ballad and closer. so your 1-3 towards the end of your dissertation i disagree with every one 10000%. And this from a guy who has #####ed about DCI arranging for years

Nothing special here, just after all of the shows performed in Indy and the overall amazing quality of the performances, which 6 were your favorite? Not necessarily Best, just your favorite. Mine: Cadets, Bluecoats, Mandarins, SCV and Music City. Special recognition for Troopers and the Sacramento Vanguard Cadets!

By the way, hat's off to the 7th Regiment. They were the first corps of the day at prelims where it was evident they were a step above the earlier corps in performance. Not the biggest corps, but you could tell they must have a pretty good instructional staff and a dedicated group of marching members. We really enjoyed their performance.

1. SCV 2. Cadets 3. Cavaliers 4. Bluecoats 5. Pacific Crest 6. Blue Devils HM: Boston, Blue Stars, Music City, Crossmen All in all one of the most entertaining seasons this century...

SCV Bluecoats Mandarins Cadets Cavies Spirit HM: Genesis, SCVC, Southwind, Music City (whose rendition of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah was more heartfelt than Crown's)

http://www.wfmz.com/news/lehigh-valley/allentown-cadets-compete-in-world-championships/781875229?fb_action_ids=10213834011458420&fb_action_types=og.comments Nice to see this story on the Allentown TV station!

I'm fine with a lot of the costumes, but sometimes the spandex... yikes. Not exactly flattering. As one of my family members says... spandex is a privilege, not a right.

1.Boston Crusaders 2. Bluecoats 3. Cadets 4. Pacific Crest 5. Music City 6. Troopers Toyed with a Blue Stars, Blue Devils, and Spirit. Open Class 1.Spartans 2. 7th Regiment 3 River City Rhythm 4. Louisiana Stars 5. Legends 6. Guardians

I appreciate the second post. Thank you for that. Re: the bolded part, you're not deficient, you sound like a drum corps fan who just doesn't 'get' a show. A lot of us don't get some shows, and even some corps in general, and that's ok. Me liking one thing and you not liking that thing makes no difference, which is cool. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it just makes us us. I will say, I have no knowledge of music outside of what I learned in school/drum corps and that's been well over a decade. I also have no interest in learning more, it's just not something I want to pursue. This summer I've been to one drum corps show live, three live jazz shows of varying quality, a few well known bands from the 80s and 90s, and far more drum corps shows on live stream than my wife would care to admit. I can tell you absolutely nothing about the hows and whys, but I can tell you I enjoyed them. And I enjoyed SCV a ton this year. I like the visual a lot, I liked the parts that gave me goosebumps, and honestly I liked the music, which I haven't stopped whistling for a few days now. If I was hard-pressed, I could probably figure out why I like those things, but at the end of the day, I'm not too interested in the why. I gravitate toward what I like, and that's good enough for me. It sounds like you enjoy/appreciate the music side more, and probably have a different pallete for what that entails. For that reason, there's a real chance that you and I are going to have different enjoyments from drum corps. So, to round this out, I have absolutely no way of defending SCV's music or discussing much of the pieces you mentioned, because they're in your wheelhouse. But I can say that, for what I go to drum corps shows for, I enjoyed SCV, including the music, and that's enough for me. Again, thank you for the second post.

we/I will miss your humorous take on various posts. You have a way of making us laugh and think at the same time. Now go rest your back so you can move those 2019 props.

I don't disagree with you. I've pointed out as such that the OP has a lot of insightful and detailed points but where he falls short is that he does not realize his comments are opinion rather than fact.

AMAZING video of a finals rehearsal 2018 week run by Vic Firth

Edit: posted in jest, but to be honest, layer that over cream pants, and do some sort of collegiate/athletic retro show ... wouldn't look bad.

i think you think way too much about a chat forum about drum corps.

"said the guy whose home corps wears Adidas and sweatpants"

I agree fellow Cadet! (Cadets 82)! Not all, but some of these people are throwing gossip around! Like a knitting circle of old women! Wait, that would be a tarnish on old women! Read my post above...these dudes go into full on attack mode! Some were more concerned about this years show and told all to wait after season to worry about getting Hops image off main youtube page!!! I disagreed! I wanted it off immediately so no one he harmed could still see that face! As I said above...I mentioned it to whoever runs their Instagram and YouTube and never got a response....and that was over 6 weeks ago and image is still there! Not one person he harmed should be worried about going to a cadets site and seeing him on main pages! I get he is so throughout 30 some years of cadets and would be very hard to get rid of his image in everything, but wish they could! Never could stomach him the year I marched and more sickened by him after past spring!!! We had Doc Santo as our C D and that filth was waiting in the wings!

I'd like to see Cadets in a more athletic M&G uniform. One of their strengths is that they've historically let you see how hard they're working during a show - that would accent it. I would prefer Phantom to also go more activewear, but in all white. Mike

You could say this about most championship shows for the past twenty years. Where have you been?

I was not at finals so I have no clue who got the best crowd response. I am sure all the corps did well. It was such a strong top 12. As for the comments about Cadets perhaps getting more applause due to sentimental reasons, I honestly think that might have been more true for them at the beginning of the season. However, from a pure show and performance perspective, just go read my early review of Cadets from the Akron show. I was probably a little harsh on the corps. They really started sluggishly, did not sound too good, the show was not complete nor did it work from top to bottom, and I was not a fan of the uniforms. I didn't take it easy on them, despite off field issues, because I didn't think they would want that. I focused on the show and performance...not the off season. They did get a sentimental welcome at Akron, and elsewhere, as they should; but once the show starts DCI fans can be tough critics. I certainly was. As the season progressed the Cadets found magic in this show. They rewrote all kinds of stuff, become better players and marchers, tweaked the music to perfection, and really put together a killer closer to the show. The marchers and staff did a brilliant job of finding the right mix of complexity, emotional, and and exciting music; and the drill was killer. They really marched a wicked hard program and their drumline in particular really threw down later in the season. So yes, their ovations at East and Indy were more for the excellence of performance and the fact that the show was REALLY good. I don't think people were jumping out of their seat because they felt bad for the corps. The audience response for corps like SCV, Bluecoats, BD, Boston, Mandarins, etc., I am sure were amazing...and likely due to great show design and incredible performance.

It still baffles me that a few people on here continue to whine about staff moving from corps to corps. Whether it be for money, staff chemistry, creative freedom (all three in the case of some of the BAC staff), this has been going on for years. Star of Indiana, anyone? Also, as I said in another thread somewhere recently, Boston's payroll is still less than BD. Are our friends from Concord "buying" success as well? For literally decades, BAC lost staff and members to other corps. Everyone was fine was that. Like all Boston staff in the 80s, I taught the corps without pay of any kind for 6 years. It was what we alumni did (gladly) to maintain the corps' survivability. Now, many of those 80's kids have become extremely successful, both professionally and financially, and are applying their talents to giving back in a different way...raising funds for the current and future members. You make it sound like poor Crown is destitute and has no means at their disposal to staff their corps. Really? Dude, get over it.

it's all about the $$. it's been said on here by people in the know that the more DCi draws, the better the deal is for them. They won't get that deal going to cities like LA, Dallas, etc. it's the same reason DCA is going to an average at best PA HS stadium for the next 2 years....the deal. Plus, they can basically keep the same tour schedule year in and year out.

I should be more explicit. DCI takes west coast drum corps fans for granted. I don't give a f#ck if they stay in Indy, but they need to change the tour so we can see something closer to a complete show. Now you will all tell me how harrowing it is for east coast corps to change what they do, which only reinforces my point. DCI takes west coast fans for granted.

I'm not buying the "Cadets got an ovation because of the CRAP they had to endure" at the start of the season. If that was really the case WHY did the ovation start well before the end of their show? I stated in another thread that I would have been standing for Cadets for that very reason, BUT prior to finals week I stated I would be standing "because they had become soooo dammmm gooood." They performed at a higher level each night of the championships and their closer became MAGNIFICENT and most worthy of the thousands of fans I saw standing well before the show was over. From my seat the most "crowd love" was sent to Bloo, SCV and CADETS....because they were all sooo dammm gooood.

Maybe this will answer the OP questions. (Apologies for formatting - technology is not cooperating today.) Summary - all corps pay and other funds paid out from DCI to individual corps Rates listed are the standards in place for the 2017 season. Appearance Fees – corps are paid for event performances based on the following scales: World Class: · Standard rate: $2,600 per event. · Standard non-member rate: $1,800 per event. Used for a corps who is participating on the World Class tour but is not a full voting member. · Standard rate for events designated as “Tour of Champions”: $5,000 per event. Open Class: · Standard rate for contracted tour events – mixed events with primarily World Class corps: $1,100 for Open Class Finalist and $700 for Non-Finalist. (Non-finalists include locally based groups that do not travel to Championships.) New or re-emerging corps receive $0 in their first year. · Standard rate for contracted tour events – Open Class events: appearance fees vary. Pay is based on a pool of payout dollars generated from the specific contracts (Total contract value less Admin fees) and is shared by the corps appearing in those contracted events. All Age: Standard – a mixture of rates, some of which are grandfathered in from old pay scales – typically ranging from $0 to $500 but may be as high as $1,700 for a top DCA level finalist. Allocation pool – Pool created out of DCI revenue distributed to World Class member corps based on a formula (see below). All active World Class member corps receive a portion of the pool. The amount of the pool is determined during the annual Budget & Planning cycle and approved by the Board. The stated intent of the Allocation pool system is to reward both historical contributions of individual corps as well as “marketability” based on recent results. A summary of the steps in the formula: · The formula includes all placements from 1972 to the present. o Eligible placements are: current World Class, former Division I or original Open Class Top 25. Corps that are temporarily inactive continue to be included in the pool calculations. o Not included: Any placements for corps outside of the Top 25 or any Class A/Class A-60/ Division II & III / new Open Class or any All Age groups. Also not included: any World Class corps who have gone inactive or move out of the World Class for an extended period of time. · Based on the placements, points are awarded on scales that combine similar competitive ranges. For 1972 through 2001 (30 years), a placement of 1 – 6 earns 40 points, 7 – 12 earns 30 points, 13 – 17 earns 5 points, 18 and above do not earn points. From 2002 to the present, the points were expanded at the lower levels so that 13 – 17 earns 15 points and 18 – 21 earns 5 points. 22nd + remain at 0 points. · Each year’s placements are weighted. 1972 = 1; 1973 = 2, 1974 = 3 and so on. The most recent 3 years are “super weighted” at a rate of 100 / 150 / 150. · A cumulative number of points are calculated for each corps. The ratio of the number of an individual corps’ point total compared to the grand total of all corps is the percentage used when paying out the total pool. For example: if a corps’ point total equals 5% of the total of all points, then that corps will receive 5% of the funds in the allocation pool. Championships – pay based on final placement: Finalist (1 – 12) $8,500; 13 – 17 $6,500; 18 – 21 $4,000; 22+ $2,150 Note: if an Open Class corps places higher than a World Class corps in a mixed event such as Prelims; the World Class pay is not reduced; it is determined by placement within the World Class. Championships – mileage – a pool of $50,000 allocated based on the number of miles from a corps’ home base of operation to that year’s Championship location. Payout eligibility: World Class member corps.

“Impressive. Every word in that sentence was wrong.” – Luke Skywalker

I guess all other corps wish they could musically fail so epically.

I know nothing, but... 1) Bloo 2) BD 3) SCV 4) BAC 5) Crown 6) Cadets 7) Cavaliers 8) Mandarins 9) Stars 10) PR 11) BK 12) Spirit 13) Xmen 14) Academy 15) Scouts If I had to bet money, I'd wager that BD's winning pattern is over. Of course I could be wrong, but it's so competitive at the top that the odds seem more against them than ever. Other than that I don't really feel confident in any "predictions," except for (possibly) Cadets gaining some momentum back and Mandarins retaining or improving on theirs. Whatever happens, I think it will be another great year for drum corps.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

I’ve thought the DC area would be ideal for the Cadets. Lots of schools, plenty of money, access to major airports would make a rebuild much easier.