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Just happened to come across this older thread tonight. 6 years later...yeah, I think we can all agree this all worked out OK for Bloo. A gold, a silver, two bronze and maybe the most creative and entertaining shows during this time period. Yeah, it's worked out OK. And some great additions to the team as well! And in a couple of weeks they will get together to begin work on the 2019 Session. :-)

I was surprised to see that there were only 6 show reviews for the whole Summer. Those are my favorite threads to read on DCP. So, with that said, what are your reviews of the corps you saw this summer (live or online) and how their shows and seasons went? HERE IS MINE... SCV - WOW! Complete game changer. That horn line? When they aren't poking you in the eye, they're shoving you in the chest. High, loud, and long.... Just how drum corps brass fans like it. Guard? Amazing! Staging? The guard coming into the middle in the ballad was the simplest and one of the most memorable moments of the summer. BD - Nobody knows Saturday night better then them. I just wish the end of the show wasn't so obvious from second one of the show. BLUECOATS - Amazinly amazing performers that were consistent from the very first show of the summer with this beautiful and trendsetting show. CROWN - (Disclaimer: I have history here) By far the best show title of the Summer when I heard it. Horns never let down, percussion was their best in their history, and the guard is coming into their own after the change of designers. Crown never disappoints with their precision and quality. BOSTON - No one could say they didn't get their show. They spelled it out for you. Fun ending. The guard is a proverbial fireworks show. CAVIES - Interesting concept. Lots of new mixed with old in the show. It gave the long time viewer plenty to wrap their mind and heart around, the new viewer something to talk/think about, and had amazing musical concepts. CADETS - (Homer review here - beware) For nearly 30 years I stayed away from the corps, because I did not feel welcome. This year was different. Nods to both the old and the new. They played well, marched well, and if you saw the video of the z-pull to the end with the maroon and gold uniform coming out, you also saw that the guard was freakin' clean. They came a long long way over the course of the summer and should be very proud of their growth. My pride for this organization and the past 5 months is both wide and deep. #marchstraightandtrue BLUE STARS - (Disclaimer: I have history here) Always a fun and entertaining concept. I wonder what would happen if you get a little darker and edgy, while mixing in some entertainment.... Hmmmmmm? Think Tarpon Springs "Paranormal" show. BLUE KNIGHTS - A few years back when you did the show with the mirrored props on the field, I fell in love with you. I guess I have been waiting for that same sort of connection again. You always march, play, spin well, but I want to "feel" when I watch you, like that show a few years ago. MANDARINS - Welcome to Finals! Fun and unique show. Great brass line. I hope you mix more staging with drill next year. I am sure you will. REGIMENT - (Disclaimer: I have history here) - WOW! You guys certainly stepped out of the norm for you the past two years. Regiment without helmets some how seems odd to me. Such an iconic look that was missing this summer. The guard and sets/performance environment were fun and a great foundation for the future! When I think of Regiment, I think of opera, passion, big, huge, almost over the top, then subtle and inviting. My only wish this summer was when you got to the final wedge in the show, that the musical arrangement modulated back to the original. Somebody called this the Windam Hill version of New World. I don't know about that, but sometimes you just need to leave the classics alone. CROSSMEN - Another team that I love to watch because of so many people that I know that teach there. It's so hard when you are good at a particular genre of music (jazz). If you do it too long, you get pigeon holed into it and sometimes when you get away from what you are good at, your audience scratches their head. I hope in the future you can find your roots and move into the future at the time. SPIRIT - I was hoping for a tie on Friday anywhere in the top 12 that would have made you a Finalist. If you keep doing shows like this year's you will attract more talent and make it harder on the Top 12 to not fall out. Good for you. Keep knocking on that door... better yet... go kick it down next year! I got to put your uniform on for one parade in Nov of 1983 after Garfield won DCI when I visited a girlfriend that was in the corps. Freddy Martin handed me a uniform and a baritone and told me to get into the arc. When I said I didn't know the music, he said, "You will learn it as we go, but play LOUD!" LOL Sage advice and I am glad to still call Freddy a friend and mentor. I guess that makes me a Spirit alum, huh? LOL ACADEMY - Fun show. You took us to school... and you did it well. You made the case for Finals having 15 corps instead of 12 and I would have to agree that I would have loved to see you again on Saturday night. You deserved it. COLTS - Another team that should be a shining example of why there should be 15 corps in Finals. Fun show. Done well. Good for you. MADISON - I don't get it. I really don't. I sincerely enjoyed your show this Summer. The judging community kept you out of Finals a few short years ago with more standing ovations on that Friday than any corps that made Finals that night. Last year, you were unique and different, while still keeping your trademark "machismo." I love this year's show, but I did find myself craving that classic Madison long, loud, high, make me want to stand up and pump my fist in the air moment. I hope that next year you can find the balance between the two. TROOPERS - Two sunbursts in the same show? One in the traditional and the other in more of a costume? You literally pointed yourself into the future. I can't wait to see what comes out of Casper in 2019. PAC CREST - What you guys do on a short season always seems to amaze me. You do World Class drum corps on an Open Class length of season. You should be proud of all your accomplishments. Every year I love what you put on the field. MUSIC CITY - Welcome to World Class! Fun show. I have a few people there that I know from over the years and could not be happier for how they are contributing to our activity. Keep being you. What the Hell?! Give us an all out Nashville show next year. I bet that would be fun!!! OREGON CRUSADERS - Another corps that does not play the tradition role and not only loves to be "out there" but craves it. Keep exploring what you are digging into. Who knows? Maybe somebody notices you and rewards you for it real soon. (The remainder of the top 24 world class corps I really did not see enough to comment, so I will not) A couple more that I saw this summer... SCVC - SHUDDUP! NO SERIOUSLY... SHUDDUP! What the world corps was to their championship, you were to yours. Game changers in the Open Class. You always live up to your name... VANGUARD! BDB - Another corps that looks more WC than OC. WOW! LEGENDS - Your hornline always sounds like a Finalist to me. You certainly know how to train a brass line and then unleash them on the audience. LOUISIANA STARS - This corps has some serious talent and performers with grit and determination. I hope you stay and make that corps something really special and if you don't... There will be some World Class corps with some new members that will probably outwork their vets. ENCORPS - Fun... Entertaining... and you put a corps together in what seems like 6 months and did it as well as any other Sound Sport group... or better. Who said that the NJ/NYC/PA area couldn't have another drum corps and it be successful? You stomped on that theory with some NJ attitude for sure!

Thank you for having the courage to post on Reddit and here. The honesty and bravery of people who bring these things to light is an important part of finding solutions and preventing atrocities in the future. DCP (obviously) isn't perfect, but I think there are many good people who read the posts here and would do whatever they can to help.

You could definitely say that things like the example picture are more in really bad taste than something to be considered a crime. It is a weird thing to do and just reminds us of the natural immaturity of people in that age bracket. It just comes with the territory sometimes. We all make mistakes. Having said that I also don't have a problem with corps handling it like the Cavaliers did in a story posted earlier.

In 2009 as I recall the retelling of the incident, a member of The Cavaliers absconded on his bus with a full uniform from the Blue Devils who had just beaten them at Drums Across the Rockies. The two corps went separate directions after the Denver contest. Other Cavalier members turned their brother into Cavaliers corps director Bruno Zuccala who had to decide what to do with the member and the return of the uniform. It is said that when Blue Devils director David Gibbs learned from Bruno of the theft, Gibbs wanted lawyers and cops involved to prosecute the Cavalier member to the full extent of criminal action. Cooler heads prevailed. Bruno gathered his corps members and had them discuss and vote what to do with the member. His Cavaliers corpsmates voted to send the young man home for the rest of the season. The Cavaliers did exactly that and made sure the uniform and apology was returned to the Devils. Since then and most recently this paragraph appears in the Cavaliers member handbook...2017 version given here, page 14. "Theft Theft of personal, public, housing site, school, or other property will not be tolerated. The Corps Director or a designated member of the Management Team will address issues with theft. If a theft is found to have occurred, actions may include dismissal from the organization and/or involvement of local authorities if the situation warrants. If incidents of theft are witnessed or suspected, they should be immediately reported to the Corps Director or a member of the management team for investigation and resolution."

after reading the first 5 paragraphs, i'm pretty sure I disagree with you on multiple levels. I felt lots of groove, i was moved emotionally, and I cant stop humming the ballad and closer. so your 1-3 towards the end of your dissertation i disagree with every one 10000%. And this from a guy who has #####ed about DCI arranging for years

No.

Stockholm Syndrome: A heavy metal lover (who hates Abba) is somehow forced to move to Stockholm, Sweden. Once there, the only music played anywhere is, of course, Abba. After an tormented middle section (Abba in a minor key), the individual embraces Sweden, and becomes Abba's biggest fan.

The ability to change scores in the intermission blocks should help in large part with that issue, but it does have some effects.

I think the Cadets should do a show entitled "The Cadets Present THE CADETS" Back to the old M&G classic uniforms, crazy whiplash drill, top 3 guard & contemporary American-composed symphonic style music! Talk about revolutionary!

BD moved their ##### off this year. Not always the case from year to year. But they've also shown that moving the most doesn't equal difficulty (or a championship for that matter). That said, if you think Gaines is in the HOF for all the easy drill he's written over the years, please send me a couple grams of whatever the hell it is you're smoking.

He only mentioned Troopers, so hopefully he's back with Music City. He's done a great job with Troopers. His first season with them in 2013 produced a wonderful show.

As someone also studying for his BM, I’m confused how someone could go to Juilliard and come away with such a two dimensional sense of what good music is. I’m Confused with several of your points, especially the one concerning tempo as it changes about maximum 5 times, a pretty average number for a full DCI show, which are rather short in comparison to other musical compositions. The show follows a standard form of Fast, Slow, a Dance section, and a triumphant finale; a tried and true musical journey if there ever was one. The music takes you through chaos (Metropolis), Loneliness and Sadness (ballad) and finally resolves in the finale. It’s pretty self explanatory. As far as melodies, I could probably sing almost the whole show for you. Not trying to come down to hard on you here, but frankly, when you come down on a show trying to use your credentials in order to establish an opinion as a factual analysis, it makes you seem pretty elitist. Sorry you didn’t enjoy. I’m gonna go listen to Babylon again!

Perhaps a bit late to this thread, but I think that people that criticize these corps for not moving enough are missing a lot. The sense I get is that people somehow feel there's less challenge and less accomplishment involved in what these corps are doing versus more traditional show designs. I don't agree with that at all. This is the first year that Vanguard fully gave up dot-to-dot designs and of course they have now - very deservedly IMO - won a championship. I'm quite sure Vanguard didn't choose this design approach because they thought it was easier. Vanguard has never been one to do easy shows. They did this because it offered the ability for them to be more creative than a traditional show design would allow. When I watch all these corps I certainly enjoy watching more traditional shows. The Cadets, with the exception of their uniform, were in IMO the most traditional of all the top 12 this year and I enjoyed their show. But there's also no question in my mind that the top 3 deserved to be the top 3 and that when I watched their shows it felt more modern and fresh than any of the ones that came before them. The other corps were all great, but many of them looked like - sorry - just very good marching bands. The top 3 corps looked like something else entirely. Something more creative. Something very fresh. Something very fluid. I expect a lot of people felt that way and I'm sure next year even more corps will move the direction of BD/SCV/BLOO. But this thread springs from the criticism that some corps don't march enough and more to the point that some people feel that makes such corps less deserving. I don't see it that way at all. Now, I'd need to listen to all the shows more carefully to say for sure, but it sure seemed to me like the top 3 corps all had very difficult music books - more so than the other corps. If you just sit back and listen every section of these corps was challenged like crazy in what they were playing. Not only that, but all the corps were mixing in sampled music as well that had to be synchronized. Whether you like that or not it's hard to do. Now when I watch these corps I also see all kinds of movement and a lot of the time they are playing. There's actually still a lot of marching in these shows, but in a traditional show most of the time there is more or less one giant drill that is evolving throughout the show. In these modern shows there are a bunch of smaller sets of drill playing out all at once. The members are also doing all kinds of body movement, and oh BTW they even climb props, jump off of props, etc. That's all very hard to do. Yes there is some "pose and play" out there and you notice it in Vanguard because they do it on top of those props. But seriously very few corps have members with the skills needed to do all this variety of stuff. So, IMO, the right corps made the top three and for that matter they finished in the right order. I do believe that not only were their shows the most entertaining of the night from a GE perspective, but also that their members were likely challenged at least as much if not more than the members of all the other corps. I personally hope these corps stay with their modern designs because they are insanely cool to watch and I think the embodiment of the future of DCI. Times change. Tastes change. I believe the marching members of today thrive on these modern shows and that is awesome in my book.

Harmonium...someone seriously needs to do an entire show to this work. Could be beautifully done by Blue Knights, Phantom Regiment, Crown...

When is the last time they played Malagueña or anything like it. And how were the past two seasons anything like the past. This year had no resemblance to the Scouts of old. They were trying to look and move "forward" and look what happened.....16th place. I agree, let's tear down and start over, but let's do it top to bottom so we can first hire people that know how to fundraise, manage money well, hire the right kind of people who know how to put together a winning team, put winning as the single focus (what BD has done for 40+ years), then start programming shows that blend high artistry, excellence, and entertainment and you have a winning combination. Quit looking to the past, but also quit trying to be everybody else.

I think it's going to be awesome... back to our parade roots, finding outlets in indoor arenas (WGI), and longer lives for band directors. :-D

True or not, WTF with the pic? I thought BD was feeding the kids.

Same response as the previous four years. A new addition would be the Trooper's doing Dances With Wolves.

I'd love to see Jamie Thompson go back to PR...Turandot show comes to mind and so many others as well...well one can only dream..

My favorite drum corps venue I might add...absolutely LOVE this place...and the great acoustics it provides...

Well they certainly brought out the sledgehammer this year.

I do agree in part. As a brass musician my personal draw to drum corps was because it was EXCLUSIVE avenue and unique experience that was different from that of marching band, symphonic band, wind ensemble, jazz band, orchestra and others that I belonged. I was attracted to the fact that the "brass" elements created a different texture and timbre then that of other groups. If woodwinds or saxophones were included that basic attraction would have been lost. A summer job would have been more attractive. My red line has always been the inclusion of woodwinds (on a large scale) in this activity.

'99 was Jim Wren's final year. Klesch arranged '00 and '01. He ran a fantastic ensemble rehearsal. Loved having him on staff in '00 and enjoyed the '01 show, immensely.

I was at the Indy airport on Sunday after finals and awaited my flight home. I was seated at a table with three open chairs and offered one to a jacketed Cavalier laden with luggage. He mistook the dark green (Jets) shirt I was wearing as a Cavies alum-wear. He sat down anyway, tour tired and all that. We chatted about people we mutually knew in the organization while he was soon joined by four other Cavie mms and new age-outs. By the end of the time, ten Cavies had passed through the table conversation and Evan from Box 7 ministries had also joined. It was a most worthwhile hour or so which I wished I had taped. After the backstory season admins at all corps have had this summer, they should relish in what I heard. Unprompted except for the question I asked: "what did you like best about your season?," all ten readily and immediately chimed in about how each had grown as a man from the beginning of ST to banquet, how they felt changed and challenged, how they felt obligated to keep the growth moving forward and how that obligation had to echo in their community generosity at home, at school, and in the larger community. (I am deliberately here choosing words which they used and echoed often, not scripted but pivotal from the heart.) They joked about putting up Kevin LeBoeuf for canonization for his leadership with humor, how they learned White Heat Playing techniques from the Martins, how they were pushed to maxim by the percussion staff. In the end it wasn't about placement or rings but maturity and being a gentleman. Several spoke about how the first four days of ST and afterwards challenged their spirituality or lack of, their attitudes about others, and their respect for family and authority. As an educator who has worked for churches and schools as well as drum corps, I heard the life-long lessons any teacher dreams will be the success for our students. Well done, Cavaliers. May this be repeated in 2019. Isn't it one of the major goals of drum corps? And as I said to the Green Team mms as we parted, thanks for their candor, their enthusiasm, but mostly their honesty and self-searching. They are better men for it. Move it forward.

I am such an old timer that the visual is developed from the music. If the music does not grab me then there could be a 3 ring circus going on and it would not phase me.

I need to do mine don’t I? :I

Scott has a looong resume of arranging for marching bands and concert bands. I hardly think the key of the brass makes a difference, given his position as director of bands at Western Michigan U.

As a moderator, I tend to stay out of commenting on these "hot" topics, but this one I simply can't... What will it take for DCI to ACTUALLY DO something? Does a member have to get actually raped, seriously injured or God forbid KILLED before DCI as an organisation pulls their collective heads out of their backsides??!! And don't give me this BS that DCI "is the individual corps"... THAT is half the bloody problem! They are at MINIMUM a $10+ MILLION a year organisation. The organisation needs an INDEPENDENT board that is not made up of yes men that are so closely involved with the individual corps. As the organising body for the junior corps activity in America, they have a moral responsibility and obligation for ensuring member health and safety. At the end of the day, no student (if we are an educational activity... that's what the members are.. students)should have to expect that they will be physically endangered or abused in order to take part in this activity. If that means that Pioneer is made example of then so be it in my humble opinion. I'd rather have one less corps than one dead kid.

I really enjoyed the stint with Robert W. Smith arranging a few years ago. Empire State of Mind is an iconic moment, IMO.

First: I apologize in advance because I didn't have time to read 14 pages of replies. I literally have 15 minutes to try to reply coherently, and I feel compelled to do so now because this topic is of great interest to me, but my time the rest of this week is very limited. (inservice days and preparing my materials for day 1 next week!) second: I have a BM and MM in Music Theory with a minor in music history. I am a choir director, band director, and I teach general music as well, all in grades 3-12. I also teach an 11th grade human aesthetics block called "History Through Music." I'm starting year 20 this year. That said, I disagree with the original post on several fronts. 1) Music's "quality": It is well known in music theory circles that many researchers attempt to codify music for "quality." Schenker, for example, was a German theorist who attempted to prove the "quality" of music based on its underlying harmonic principles, and music of "German" styles were, by his measure, meant to be seen as better in "quality." I won't go into the details, but spending a year in grad school working on Schenker graphs taught me that this method of discerning "quality" was often arbitrary and sometimes highly contrived. MY POINT: Music's "quality" is not something that we can codify completely by any particular system. 2) Musical "taste": I generally have a distaste for Mozart. Mozart's music is high in "quality" but low on my "taste" measure. I can hear the quality of it but I don't have to like it. Many people have difficulty recognizing or ascribing quality when music doesn't fit their taste. The more educated a person is about music (self educated can be just as good, IMO) the more they can accept this difference. I also don't like the Carpenters much, but I recognize the harmonic beauty in combination with creative melodies that sometimes suspend and resolve in unusual ways. So, the Blue Stars show wasn't as interesting to me from a musical standpoint (except for the more esoteric piece by Carpenter), but I recognize the value of the music. 3) Regularity of rhythm is NOT a measure of quality: I'm not sure if I missed a detail in the OP, so I may be off base here. Regularity and irregularity of rhythm have certain effects, and neither is a requirement for "quality." The intentionality of the rhythm is what is important. Shostakovich, Stravinsky, and hundreds of other modern composers will play with rhythm in jarring ways for effect. Entire pieces are written without a sense of beat - "Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima" by Penderecki, for one very important example. Webern and others of the serialist style intentionally avoided beat. (and I struggle with taste in regard to those pieces, but their historical significance can't be overstated - the emancipation of music from long-evolving rules of harmony and form was needed, and that purpose was served by the work of serialist composers) Now, to address SCV's show: I find most DCI shows to have the same problem of "chopped up" musical examples that flow somewhat poorly. SCV is no exception to that problem. It is very rare that I feel that a show flows so well as a whole that I am swept away into a musical landscape that feels whole. 2007 Crown (Triple Crown) is one example, along with 2009 SCV (beautifully rendered Appalachian Spring show with clear thought as to the original music and movement), and I forget the year but SCV's recent Les Mis show all fit those examples for me. FOR ME. And that brings me to my last point: it is good that people attempt to discern their measure of quality. We should all do that. But for hundreds of years music theorists have argued over musical "quality" and nobody has discovered a magic formula. Music's effect on the brain is simultaneously well documented and mysterious. But drum corps is about the whole package - visual intrigue, movement, showcases of individual groups, etc. I think it's clear to many of us who have followed the activity for decades that the days of "audio only" enjoyment are becoming rarer. Is that a musical "fail", or is that the nature of how shows must be designed to suit boxes evaluated by judges? I'm not sure I have an answer to that one. My 15 minutes are up. Hopefully I'll have time to catch up on this discussion late this evening.

I guess all other corps wish they could musically fail so epically.

A limit on the number of seconds a show can use pre-recorded singing as part of the musical score. If singing is key to an arrangement, it should be done live, just like any other soloist.

My BELOVED VANGUARD has poked the bear...

We come from park and bark to pose and play. But you must have an awful short memory considering just last year BD won with a show that had absolutely zero individual visual difficulty and very, very little ensemble visual difficulty. There was a 10-15 second run in Flight of the Bumblebee that was the only time in the whole show the entire ensemble was moving and playing at the same time. The other 11 minutes were "Run to these stairs! Pose! Play! Run to your next set! Pose! Play!" They were handed 20s in visual just for... good staging, I guess? The Blue Devils have very effectively codified THEIR visual style into the visual sheets, so in that the ONLY way to get good visual scores in DCI is to do it the Blue Devils way. Don't get salty because Vanguard is beating them at their own game this year.

It is supposed to be but there are delays due to legal issues and some controversies around the development of downtown. If the development is to move forward YEA is in a strong position to be bought out of their lease (for a significant sum). This would be dependent on finding suitable facilities for the organization moving forward.

No...and as I said, I prefer a new division for any instruments and any size...if no corps wants to participate there, fine. If all do, fine....if some do, also fine. That is my answer to the OP's original request. It is MY rule change if I were able to make one.

What a great read !! Thank you

Random internet troll (easily identified by the use of terms like epic fail) proclaims he is an expert. Said troll teaches us the rules for good music (source: himself, the expert) Troll baits unsuspecting users to defend music based on his rules. Troll replies with even more "truths" about internet law and evolution. Makes cocky remarks about how no one has proved him wrong. Wow. One of the best troll bait threads I've seen ever. Either that or you really are a dbag. I mean I really hope you are a troll, for your own good. This is not an acceptable way to make arguments or express your opinions.

Thanks for letting us know at least there was a face to face meeting.

I don’t think Beast was a bad concept. If part 2 hadn’t fallen a bit short I think they would have medaled. Bur wandering a bit early in the show is very hard to recover from. Props weren’t clutter at all; they were mood / environmental vs active. But they most definitely did NOT clutter the stage. While dragging props all over the field is de rigeur I don’t think it’s a requirement.

the brushes were what caused Bluecoats' perc downfall this year -- judges hate brushes -- pro tip: if you don't want to get tanked in drums - DO NOT use brushes at any time in your book.

You should feel most welcome to express your opinion, but it really is just that, no matter how many theories you cite. Plenty of music now considered great was panned by the public and/or the critics upon its first hearing, and plenty of music once admired is now dismissed.

You should demand a refund from Juilliard.

Better be careful. Taken to its logical conclusion, this is G7-talk.

no, there's a lack of inertia

All about the speakers... can't be out on the 15s when the speakers and mics are 30 and In.

No they can't

I will restate my belief that in terms of visual design as it relates to actual drill, The Cadets and Boston Crusaders move more than anyone else..and move extremely well. Are we seeing an emergence of an "East Coast" visual style? In terms of "staging" instead of real visual design, BD, SCV, and Bloo all do this to the extreme. But, notice who occupy the top 3 spots right now...in DCI, that which is rewarded is perpetuated. As a visual design/drill writer of four decades, I fear I am becoming obsolete. I give myself 5 more years.... :(

This is funny, because over the last decade BD has helped revolutionize how drum corps are scored when it comes to visual design, and this is evident in their dominance since 2007. Yet in this instance, I feel like SCV is beating BD at their own game, and other corps are getting pretty darn close as well. So to complain about SCV in regards to a perceived lack of visual demand is funny, because that absolutely acknowledges the fact that this entire “game” was created by BD. For the record, I have ZERO issues with how BD and now SCV/other corps decide to utilize this visual concept.