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BAC has their first and last full corps camp this coming weekend, and as of then, we will be only four weeks away from Spring Training in Castleton, Vermont. This year, they will only be up there 17 days, with the rest of pre-season on locations closer to the Boston area. Along with several local performances, many of us are thrilled to have the corps closer to the Hub. Can't wait for the start of the season!!!!

West Coast Inflation!

How many times do people have to explain this? These people aren’t all doing massive stints on the road. Most of the great instructors have other commitments in the summer time. The larger staffs allow coverage all summer by tagging in and out. This isn’t hard, y’all.

There's a lot of pain when your corps folds. I know this personally. But my anger is directed at those individuals who committed the malfeasance that killed it. And, the enabling that went on. My Mom asked me why it was all happening, and I told her, "People were willing to go along and ignore all of the red flags because the corps was gunning for a championship and didn't care about the long-term future of the organization." On that tangent, What Keith discussed and what Brian Tuma discussed on another thread as well as SG recently: I've given a lot of thought about this. It's definitely the culture that exists and has existed. The activity is very result and win driven. Why are some of these people on board? They're perceived to get things done and that they're effective staff members, and there's an attitude with some people that to make an Omelet, well, a few eggs are broken, and well, those broken eggs aren't really corps material. There's also a very in house Good ole Boys' network in place. "Oh, X has a problem, well we can keep X under control here and they're great staff people, we'll give them another chance with our corps. We can keep an eye on them." Why? they figure they can win with this individual on staff or as a performer, just keep a lid on it. People who turtle up about the dark secrets or shun those who speak up for fear it'll wreck their corps are playing into the hands of the abusers and enabling them. It's one of the tools of their trade. "Don't say anything or you'll be blamed when the corps gets sued and goes under." To me, that's evil incarnate. One can't knuckle under to that mindset. Lord, I've got my dander up. And everything in the second paragraph has happened somewhere. Some of it, I've seen personally. You want to turn your back from it, shame on you. This (insert colorful noun here) has to stop.

My favorite is: they want to destroy the corps / they want the corps to fold. One need look no further than the screed of a statement from CAE as they exited the stage. A case study in victim blaming.

I was just trying to get the whining and crying started early. Lol. But now that I think of it, I screwed up and went out of order. First thing that is supposed to happen is to overreact to BDs Community Performance in Wyoming, when the show is literally bare bones and nothing of substance has been added yet. THEN I am supposed to cry West Coast Inflation after the first show. And I think the third thing is then make threads about performers sitting out like five years if they change corps to keep them from going to BD. Sigh, maybe I will get it right next year.

Yeah, saying that DCI knew the end was coming and "gave" Cadets the 5th place finish was conspiracy theory, clueless, and just plain stupid. The Cadets came in 5th because they were better than everyone beneath them, including this woman's beloved Regiment. They deserved their placement, and I say this as a Boston supporter.

I'll preface this by saying I agree with the spirit of what this person posted in general. But, as somebody who was there, they do not know what they speak of with the Cadets regarding Hop. Of course the abuse was there before him, because lets face facts: the abuse was, and is, everywhere in the activity. No corps is immune from it. The cycle didn't start with Hop, but he codified it there. He was dug in like a tick. His grip, an ironclad stranglehold. He was in charge for 34 years, more than one third of the corps' existence. He enabled the abuse there for those years and directly took part in it. Once he took over anybody who marched there can tell you: Hop's culture was the corps culture. Outside the abuse, that culture generally was "work yourself to absolute death if you have to in order to succeed." The work was literally all that mattered. Not people, not physical health, not mental health, not nutrition, not safety - work, even at the expense of all of these things. That was the lesson he wanted us all to get. With that culture, they won 6 out of 11 years with incredible performances. We all bought into that culture. We were flat out treated like dog sh** - and we lived for that experience. Looking back on it I see the absolute insanity. I would never let anybody treat me like that here in my adult life now. But I let them do it back then. Because they were the champions when I showed up for my first audition and I was not. I was a kid. I knew nothing. They're the adults. They must know. This is how you succeed. I must be wrong. I'll just take it. Removing Hop drastically altered the organization and the culture. Immediately. The members from 2018 - 2023 were genuinely supported and taken care of to a degree we never were. It was a valiant effort. It was imperfect. But it was far better. Abuse is everywhere in the activity. Hop made the corps an even easier place for abusers and perpetrators to thrive. I hold him directly accountable for that.

I will be right next to you cheering for BAC as well. If another corps is better than BD, I have zero issues showing them love and support. 2018, I cheered SCV all the way across the finish line. Babylon has one of my favorite closers ever. 2016, You best believe I was all aboard the Bloo hype train. And that was a sweet train to be on. 2013, Crown was here in SoCal housing at my kids Alma Mater Vista Murrieta High School. BD was also housing a few miles away from my house as well. Guess what? I went to more Crown rehearsals than BD. I can support my favorite corps (BD), be a Mandarins Dad and fangirl their historic rise..................but also show love to other corps without tearing them down, spreading lies and false narratives because I don't like some scores and placements.

Yes. absurdity.. I don't what gets into us social media Drum Corps fans. Its seems like every preseason starting almost without fail on April 1st we're .. Constantly Risking Absurdity .😉

Nah. If Boston did that they'd be looking through classic literature to figure out which book had been adapted. If Bloo did it, they'd say, "Finally, the agriculture show theme has arrived! Composting for fertilizer!" Now do it for other corps

Sid & Nancy?

I doubt it. Drum Corps isn't special and immune from the realities of the world. Sexual violence is sickeningly common in American life in general: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html "Sexual violence is common. Over half of women and almost 1 in 3 men have experienced sexual violence involving physical contact during their lifetimes." This is only based on what is reported, let alone the unknown unreported (it's vast). But let's put that aside and go with the data for now. So to math out some of this data (i'm open to any corrections): Just shy of 42% of the USA population has experienced sexual violence in their lifetime based on that stat. A little over 14% have experienced rape. 80% of reported rapes happen before the age of 25. Choose any random 5 drum corps members. 2 of them already have, or are likely to, suffer sexual violence in their lifetimes. Now choose 7. One of them is likely to suffer rape in their lifetime. Choose any corps. Current capacity of 150 = 63 will suffer sexual violence in their lifetime. 21 of them will potentially suffer rape their lifetime. 17 of those people will experience it before the age of 25 according to the cdc page. I don't know the actual membership numbers, but let's say 15 of the corps are at max capacity. That's 945 people marching this summer that will or already have in their lives suffered sexual assault. 315 of them will or already have in their lives suffered rape. 255 of them will experience it before the age of 25. Extrapolate it back over the multiple decades many of these corps have existed, I'd be shocked if there is any corps where this has never happened. And even if a modern corps does everything absolutely right to protect their members, it will still happen. The sickness is in society at large. We'll never change what is commonplace by pretending it is exception.

Oh I wasn't referring to you brother. We know who they are lol. They'll be here in about a month or so, spew their nonsense, then if BD wins in August, they'll say they are done with DCI and never supporting the activity ever again..............only to show back up next June regurgitating the same crap from previous years lol.

If it was any other corps, I would think somebody screwed up. However, this is the Blue Devils, so it is probably them being all crafty and subtle. Like I have been saying for decades, if they were to go out in their opening set and take a poop on the 50, DCI judges would say they were making a statement on the futility of one man's struggle in a byzantine society. If Boston or Bloo did that, they'd say "get a shovel!" LOL! But seriously, good luck in 2024 BD!

I wish there was an intelligent, mature, informed podcast that discussed the art form and the business of drum corps, one where the folks who actually know what's what would be willing to go on and discuss the activity and provide insight and clarity to listeners. Something very different from DCAF, in other words.

There's no reason for his comment at the moment.

You know, alot of this reminds me of that famous Hollywood director who raped a 13 year old girl, WAS charged and found guilty, and fled to Europe before he was due to "turn himself in". There were tons of Hollywood actors and other elites who were saying he should be excused because he was an "artistic genius". The ME T00 movement ended that. Just recalled his name...Roman Polanski.

Reviving this thread to post a segment of Rand (MAASIN founder)'s statement regarding the end of the Cadets. Thank you DCAF for giving them a platform to say the right thing to a wider audience. Emphases, bold, italics, are mine: "You don't also get to claim simultaneously all the history and victory of the Cadets while washing your hands clean of the abuse that happened. The announcement statement from the Cadets regarding the corps folding essentially says that the corps folded because of the recent lawsuit from an alum who was sexually assaulted in the 80s. Blaming the recent lawsuit as the sole reason the organization folded, knowing the kind of environment survivors in marching arts deals with is deliberately opening up that person to further abuse. Further abuse because I was already seeing a bunch of disgusting, vitriolic comments directed at them before the corps folded, I can only imagine what those people are saying now. This sets us back. Many of us, obviously myself included, have diligently worked to make drum corps a safer place. We should be past the fear that reporting will make people think that you just want to see the organization fold, and you just want to see drum corps burn, and you'll be blamed for the uncaring actions of boards and admin. This statement from the Cadets remastered that fear in 4k for hundreds if not thousands of people. I'm also seeing a lot of people blame George Hopkins. I understand where they're coming from and obviously you all know I'm not going to be George Hopkins defender, but this isn't solely his fault either. In my opinion, looking at George as a the sole downfall of the Cadets is likely how the board landed in this situation. Removing George from the organization didn't solve the issues inherent to the organization because George was part of the problem, not the whole problem itself. The actual problem is that the Cadets organization became an environment that enabled abuse for many people, not just George. Obviously I've never been involved in the Cadets organization, so please take this with a grain of salt, but if any iteration of the Cadets truly cared about survivors as much as optics or finances, they would've handled this differently starting in 2018. Disclosing being a survivor of sexual violence is difficult. People have a lot of reasons for choosing to step forward or not to step forward. But for every survivor that stepped forward, there are probably at least as many that chose not to. Even more difficult is choosing to initiate a lawsuit over it. No one has a good time in a lawsuit and the courts are not kind to survivors. Choosing to sue or engaging with law enforcement often just retraumatizes people. From my experience as a sexual assault counselor, and also being on the MAASIN support team, lawsuits are usually a last resort. When someone gets to a lawsuit, it's likely that the organization failed in a lot of steps in making amends first. Imagine in 2018 if people in our community, but especially in the Cadets board and admin, put as much effort into support survivors as they did in trying to distance themselves from George. Imagine the idea if we took a corps fundraiser seriously and we crowdfunded for counseling for survivors. Imagine if organizations facilitated gathering feedback from alum and survivors on what meaningful change in the organization looks like. Teasing out what's tradition and what's trauma can be difficult for some people but it's a worth endeavor to invest time into. I can't predict the future but if survivors are adequately supported, they are probably less likely to resort to suing to get their needs met. The lawsuit cannot be the only reason the organization folded. There's always more than what's the statement and we know that the economic conditions that we're living in present a huge challenge to drum corps across the board. The person at fault for an organization folding is never the survivor. This is a natural consequence of a board and admin that chose pride and profits over the people the organization is built on. ... Just remember, it was not the survivor who did this."

Ok, I think we have BD’s 2024 show figured out. Like 1998 (Romeo & Juliet / WSS) it is a mash-up. Bonnie and Clyde and Sid and Nancy. Uses music from the musical Bonnie & Clyde (which is a real thing) & the Sex Pistols. Note that the four names are alluding to a four-peat. Glad we figured this out. Good work everyone.

One month away from move-ins! Getting more and more excited as the season grows nearer!

Yes we don't want to jinx it at all.. But i am truly looking forward for that season of pure brawl battle between BD and BAC with Boston coming out on top.

Yeah.. I am quietly cheering for BAC to beat my fave and take that trophy Lol... I meant that. If i see that they have the show to win it all, i will be cheering loudly, but until then GO BD!

BD losses in 08/11/13/16/18, the other corps was better, and earned their titles. Plain and simple. No excuses.

You should have been in a Senior corps. 👍 Had one snare drummer light a cig just before he was told time to do warm ups. Muttered “I ain’t wasting this” and smoked it while warming up with rest of the line. When done he just turned his head and spit it out about 5 feet. Never missed a beat the whole time.

I hope BD does something out of the box so people can scratch their heads 😁

pretty easy to pick out 3 or 50 conventions that every other top corps uses every year. i could do it for boston and bloo, but i'm an adult. i'd love to see the top 3 from last year all change things up. the formulas have gotten alittle stale to me even though i've liked the products.

the Jojo's meledy was good but good lord, Tank! the year before was supreme. I still think a Seatbelts + Stan Kenton show would be amazing for this BD team to work with while they're on this idiom.

April is a time for absurdity in this activity.

Oh! Let me play! 1. BD is finishing fourth this year! That show is so weak! 2. Judges are ALREADY slotting BD in first because of last year's performance. 3. We should kick BD out of DCI, they're already basically professionals.

I've gotten to work with two groups. Both times I was only available for a couple of weeks, as were the majority of the staff. I showed up, worked with them when I could, then went home. Same with everybody else. We generally had 5-6 guard instructors in front of the students on any given day. That breaks down to a dance person, 1-2 weapon people, 1-2 flag people, and someone in the tower. About the same as what it was when I marched and had the same five people on the road with us all summer long, minus the burnout.

Aren’t there other forums where you can twist yourself into a pretzel to make a lame “ oooooohhh scary George Soros” post? DCP ain’t it

I'm saying this only half tongue in cheek, but most of those types of folks are too busy actually running drum corps... Mike

Somethings really are, unfortunately, as simple as "boy grows up watching dad abuse mom, grows up and abuses his partner." Drum corps is no different. It takes work to find a different path than the one you were brought up in. Any time I have been involved in marching education I have been keenly aware and focused on not letting how I was originally taught be how I put things forward. Those old behavior pathways are always there, worn into the brain, and available to travel if I am not cautious and mindful.

This is the raw sentiment that most closely resembles my own. I don't wish the end of the honorable portion of any legacy, but when you've experienced firsthand, and been told numerous accounts of, a legacy of abuse that has never been compassionately or honorably addressed by leadership anywhere, I believe such sentiments are warranted. If anyone wants to hear Rand's full commentary, which I cut down in my previous comment, they can go listen for themselves at DCAF. It includes their well wishes to the Cadets alum and community in addition to what I included. So does the rest of the commentary by DCAF. Otherwise, I encourage those who clearly wish to do otherwise in my thread, to remain survivor/victim centric. I won't be responding to known trolls, enablers, or apologists here. Rand offers real solutions that I'd never dreamed of proposing on DCP because the voices of apologists, enablers, and flying monkeys always get honest discussions shut down. I reposted Rand's commentary here in hopes of giving it greater visibility. Same with the commentary I quoted above. Even if OP has changed how they feel, which is understandable, the sentiments in this commentary are fair and shared by others.

Had to look up ‘Buddy Rich’ That is the Google of shame for a Drum Corps fan ….😎

Oh I said something to them. It was something like WTH is wrong with you? Those are 16 year old girls.

IDK if BD will four-peat. But I am confidently predicting that if there is a four-peat in 2024, it will be Blue Devils.

Honestly the ballad was meh for me all summer

I think the biggest question coming into 2024 is can BAC/Bloo/Crown separate from the other two and challenge BD. Last year, we saw the auto racing effect. Second place moves into position to challenge for first, but then here comes the third and fourth place car, so second now has to defend his spot, which allows first place to pull away. Those three corps (All freaking phenomenal btw) canceled each other out. We saw pretty much the same thing as well in 2022. Can one of them break away from the pack? If not, then yes, another "DJ Slap" courtesy of BD is upon us.

Four is a foregone conclusion in my mind. They have the same staff and won in 2023 with a young corps. The only thing to wonder about in April 2024 is will they make it to five.

See the trial through to the end, by paying whatever legal fees and fines have accumulated along the way. Obtain the rights to the brand. Purchase all new assets to replace what was sold.

Yep and that's part of the problem. Everything costs money and having 15 guard instructors is just unnecessary. Spend that money on getting a better product.

Bravo to this thread & all of your comments! 🙌

To be honest, the REAL low bass sound (not enhanced) has been missing ever since the move to Bb. I don't know if it's a byproduct of the move or arrangers simply don't arrange in a way that produces the low bass sound.

When I was in high school, I thought and said the same thing, that I would laugh if some "military dude" yelled at me. Until I went to boot camp and this Chief who was built like a Winnebago got in my face. I did a lot of stuff......laughing wasn't one of them.

No comment.

Jay Bocook is listed as a design consultant on BK 2024’s staff page 👀

I will list my favorite years here in a minute. But first, want to mention something I have admired that may have been overlooked…. In high school, my marching band took a few cues from Cadets in how you approach the field, as well as how to stay disciplined and act at retreat. That said, can I say here about a tradition I always saw of them that I really loved? Coming onto the field in that sharp, disciplined look. The block, for many years, always impressed me. Also, standing at retreat in attention and parade rest. No clapping, yelling, or otherwise….disciplined, crisp, and classy. I also watched them at retreat in amazement of their discipline. But here is the thing- while being so strict and disciplined ….there was this completely ironic thing about them too. They were the most willing to be different and take risks. Let’s start with some of the basic things ….marching with the right foot first. If you also looked at their marching style, you will notice this thing they did with raising their elbows on angles, and marching backward on their heels during slow sections, ( instead of their toes). Then, of course, raising the bar as to how fast they could take their trademarked and owned mantra of music equals movement. Those parts of the the show in 1986 and 1987 where for 3-4 minutes straight the tempo is soaring at 150- 175 bpms, you feel like you are soaring with them. More recently, we saw them taking a risk to innovate voice. So much so, it polarized them for several years. In particular, a year where they would be further west then they had ever been for finals, and you hear how polarizing their show was in the crowd at their Finals performance. All this being said, I think it’s worth mentioning that these things have been influential to a lasting legacy. My favorite shows: 1. 1985 2. 1986 3. 1988 4. 1991 5. 1993 6. 1998

Last time the Cowboys were relevant, Microsoft was launching Windows 95.............in 1995. LMAO.