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gellio

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Posts posted by gellio

  1. Waaaaait a minute here before this thing get hijacked. I am NOT saying that the Madison Scouts are the new Star. For one thing, a two time champion with over 30 finalist finishes is not the NEW anybody except themselves. I was saying this staff, most of whom ARE FROM Star (not 3rd cousins), would proceed in a fashion similar to how Star proceeded. I did not mean that there shows or styles would be Star-like, just that they know how to move up STEADILY.

    I agree with you. This team knows the formula to win. They took Star from nothing to a world champion in a matter of 8 years. That's impressive. Will they duplicate that at Madison? Who knows, but I believe they know what they are doing. I expect they will take what they learned from their experience at Star and apply it here, without changing the identity of the Scouts.

  2. I wasn't saying that in view that their success and failure this season is based on this penalty just that I thought the issuing of an 8+ penalty because your truck broke down or whatever happened is a little ridiculous.

    I don't know why people are making such a big deal about a penalty at a show, that for intents and purposes is meaningless. It would only matter if it happened at semis and knocked them out of finals.

  3. 1. Cadets. I have a feeling this show will be cleaned up immensely come finals night.

    2. Cavies. I think it'll be really close between them and Cadets but Cadets edge them out.

    3. BD. As good as their show is, I really think they will be overtaken by both Cadets and Cavies.

    4. Crown. IMO, not enough GE and the drumline holds them back.

    5. Bluecoats. I think they'll peak early.

    6. SCV. I just don't see this show getting higher than 6th.

    7. Phantom. I can't make any real predictions on this show because I haven't seen it.

    That's all for now

    I think you're going to be 100% accurate. Cadets have the best show overall this year and Cavies are the second best, IMO. I expect both to pass Crown as Cavies have really made strides. Cadets show is perfect IMO. I also am surprised people are picking Madison over Blue Stars. I think Madison is a lock for 11th.

  4. I love the show this year. I think it is awesome! I'm not sure what people's gripes are with the drill. I think it's very well designed. I think the whole show is, and I'm very happy. I do think this show has the potential to beat Boston and Blue Stars, but as long as they make finals I'm happy.

  5. I believe only corps that have shows that can compete with Crown are BD, Cadets, Cavies, Bluecoats and SCV. I do not see SCV beating anyone forementioned. They are just too far behind. That's what happens when it's mid-July and your show isn't done. Everyone else is cleaning and adding touches, while they are learning. You'd think the powers that be at Vanguard would know that if you give BD an inch, they take a mile. As far as Phantom goes, I see them solidly in 7th. They have a great percussion line, but the guard definitely offsets that. The music is beautiful, but the visual aspects of the show still leave something to be desired. It's not well designed IMO and is demand for the sake of demand. I will be stunned if Phantom finishes higher than 6th.

    Phantom in '08 hardly started in the middle of the pack, and the win wasn't as shocking to me as it was to others. It was the best show on the field that year, in terms of design and execution. I was very happy they won. It was an amazing show.

    I think surprises we are more likely to see are Blue Knights possibly beating Boston, Blue Stars, Vanguard and Phantom at finals, or Madison beating Boston or Blue Stars (or both).

  6. Ya know, I've mentioned the Czapinski bias before and was mocked. But I can say I've heard this from more than a couple of people, including someone who knew them personally from judging WGI. I remember staff being concerned about them being on panel in 2005 during finals week because of their history of scoring the Scouts low on virtually every read. This was at a time when the corps was trying to hold off Bluecoats who eventually passed the Scouts on finals night to finish in 5th.

    There definitely SEEMS to be something going on there.

    I don't know if I agree with that. Looking at the recaps from finals week 2005, it doesn't look like Czapinski's Visual Ensemble score on finals night was out of line with the rest of the panel that night, or throughout the week. I'm not a judge, but I do have faith in the judging system and hope someone wouldn't have a personal vendetta against any corps.

  7. Cash brother CASH. It's fundraiser day! Some corps wouldn't get through the summer without a full day on the Fourth!

    I'll say this Mr. Boo - i loved doing parades. When I first began marching in high school that's MOSTLY what we did. When Bluecoats were a Class A corps we did parades all the time. It's Americana & drum corps heritage for sure! Wholesome fun ending with FIREWORKS and usually an evening off!

    Some parades are REALLY fun - especially if there are four or five REALLY good drum corps involved (BRISTOL!). It's a day when you get to do drum corps in a different way - get off the field for a day and MARCH and PLAY and LAUGH with your friends - and see people who aren't in a truck stop. It's nice to be outside and not have that ###### Dr. Beat piercing your eardrums.

    I HATED parades.

  8. <Am I the only one that doesn't really like this show...?>

    As others have pointed out...you're not alone. No show is universally enjoyed. That's why we go to a drum corps (plural) show...not a drum corps (singular) show -

    Go for that hot dog...it's your right!

    Truth be told - I like Regiment's show a lot more than Bluecoats - musically. Musically, PR's show is gorgeous. I'm just stating that I think Bluecoats show is stronger across the board than PR's. I like classical music, and in all reality I'll probably listen to the '10 Regiment much more than the '10 Bluecoats on the CD. Still, Bloooo has one heck of a show this year.

  9. we still have over a month of the season. Phantom is in the same spot as they were in 08 on this day.

    Um....they are not even remotely close to where they were at this point in 2008. In 2008 they had one of the most brilliant shows ever written - musically and visually. It was epic and had all the tools necessary to be a winner. This year isn't and doesn't. I love Regiment and I love the show musically but it is terrible visually. Demand for the sake of demand. Keep in mind I hate Myron's drills. The drill reminds me a lot of past SCV drills in the same way as Madison's 2006 drill did.

    Bottom line, I don't see them finishing any higher than 8th or 9th. They are going to suffer the same fate '06 Madison did at the hands of Myron. Drill that can't look clean even if it is clean.

  10. First,I marched 'coats in 88 then on to Cadets in 89...(so I'm NOT knockin COATS)with that said...same old tune...I LOVE THIS show from BCoats this year...it is OLD Drum Corps with a bit of this Body Movement not overly done...but no chance...won't finish...sorry...too much in front of it, if you havent heard DEVS CADETS or CROWN...I was just chatting with a Star Alum...same old thing they aren't doing anything new and forward thinking they are a Corps that REACTS to the times and that's about it...but man is their horn book is HOT and fan friendly!...they have managed to come out of the gate smoking...but CAN they Finish...likely Top 6 corps...but I'm betting they will be behind. CROWN, DEVS, CADETS and PHANTOM by end of season, SCV and Cavies are questionable... at this point.

    You make good points re: Crown, Cadets and Devils. Those are going to be some tough corps to beat. However, I disgree with you on one thing - that being that we'll see Bluecoats behind Phantom at the end of the season. No way, Phantom's visual is too debilitating. It's too cramped so even when it is clean, it is going to look dirty. In fact, I would be surprised in the Bluecoats finished lower than 4th and Phantom higher than 8th.

  11. Did you hate it when they played Bartok in 2000 and 2007, or when PR played Bartok in 2001 and 2003 (Harmonic Journey--a show that people tend to gush about on here)?

    Actually, no. I quite like SCV in 2000 - especially the opening and closing. The rest wasn't bad at all. Even though I hate Glass, The Canyon is one of my favorite pieces thanks to SCV. See they thought me. 2007 was ok. 2001 PR only liked Festive Overture. 2003 Phantom was beautiful.

    I didn't mean to imply that all modern classical music is terrible, but as some above said - the music SCV has chosen this year is awful. It was almost painful to listen to.

    Like I said above, I'm not done with this show, and I will give it time but man the average audience member is likely not going to like this one.

  12. Let me be the first to congratulate the Bluecoats for being in first place

    for the second time this season (June 24th and June 30th)!

    You kids have a great show and an amazing staff and wish you nothing

    short of the best year ever for all of you! Keep up the great job, and

    know you're "rockin' the boat" with your show!

    GO BLOOOOOO!

    I'm confused. How can they be in first place when they haven't beaten Crown yet? Cadets yet? BD yet? I think if anyone has claims to be touted as the first place corps it's BD and Crown, because they haven't lost yet and Crown has beaten Bluecoats.

    Don't mean to sound like I'm ragging, but it is funny. I will say this Bluecoats show is fantastic and I will not be surprised at all if it ends up in the top 4 come finals. I do not see Phantom, SCV, Cavies or Boston beating them all year, but what do I know?

  13. I still get really confused every time I see people saying that they don't like things because they don't recognize tunes. How would music in any genre ever progress if there weren't any tunes that one had not heard before? This opinion gets to me more than any others.

    That being said, Bartok (along with Mahler, Copland, Stravinsky, and many, many others) all wrote music that is considered quality, and at times includes the "pops" you mention and some other things that some may hear as strange. We may not like all of what a corps plays, but I for one do not want every year to be a medley of Appalachian Spring, Malaguena, and Westside Story, even though I LOVE all of those.

    As far as the younger generation having no interest, perhaps it is because they haven't been made to really listen. In the band programs I work with, the kids play shows consisting of symphonic, wind band, and various other types of music. We have them listen to different settings of it, similar pieces, other works by the composers, and whatnot. All of them end up liking a good portion of it. Not all like it all. Interestingly enough, the "younger generation," as described most often in relation to being disinterested, seems to be down on the slow ballads, while the students I work with almost always end up with the ballads being their favorite movement (except for the overzealous low brass players, lol).

    A little bit of time dedicated to learning about what you're playing/listening to does wonders for "interest."

    For me, it's a problem of a lack of passion. Not a lack of passion on the part of the performers, but a lack of passion on the part of the composers. I love Copland, Prokofiev and some other composers that may be deemed "modern" to an extent. This show though. Wow - I have been the biggest SCV homer since I first saw them in 1984 and I can honestly say this is my absolutely least favorite SCV show. I never thought I'd see a show I liked less from SCV than their 2003 show, but this one blows that away. By and large, I feel most modern composers have sucked the passion right out of classical music. I know that's broad, but that's how I feel.

    I just don't understand for the life of me, with all the wonderful classical music out there, SCV would pick this. I'm not the biggest fan of 1993 Star, but I did like that show better. Every year doesn't have to be Appalachian Spring, Malaguena and Westside Story, especially when we are talking classical music. SCV does Russian well, and Russian classical composers did passion so well. A perfect match. They could play years worth of exciting shows by Russian composers alone and never repeat themselves. Throw in Beethoven, Mozart, Rossini, Verdi, Wagner, Berlioz, Puccini (to name a few) and there are thousands of shows there. I've never been a fan of Bartok and this show certainly will never make me one.

    Maybe like Star 1991, it will grow on me....I hope so. I will give it several chances, but really wish SCV would get back to the Romantic period composers, or dive into the Classical period composers.

    At the end of the day, the job of any artistic group is to engage, entertain, teach, and challange your audience. While this show certainly challenges, it does not entertain me in the least, and I believe I will be in the majority here.

  14. 1986 was the year that a handful of Madison Scouts alum from 75 came over to the Glassmen and built them into a top 5 Corps. For that matter Sal is still with the Glassmen. The positive influence the Madison Scout brotherhood has had on the Drum Corps Activity over the years can never be understated. For that I say THANK YOU to all the MEN OF MADISON.

    I left this Activity in 75 and did not come back until 2004. The last live Show that I seen before 04 was the 75 DCI Finals at Philly. So it goes without saying that this years Madison Scouts Show is very special to me. I just love the 2010 version. What a great, great balance between old and new school. The 20 contras are great. I love the spin move they do spread out over the field. There for a min. I thought the Corps was going to sway in R in B. I know this may sound crazy but I love the look of the white belt. Now all that is needed is the spats.

    Anyways, the Glassmen and the Scouts go head to head tonight after some good days of practice. The Corps that had the best practices over these days will score the highest tonight between the two Corps. Nothing but the best.

    Dean

    It's too bad you weren't at 2001 Finals. Glassmen were awesome. Quite possibly my favorite show of the year and quite possibly the best Glassmen corps ever.

    Thanks for the kind words......but I hope Madison whoops Glassmen :)

  15. As a fan who came in right about that time, I honestly can't put a hair of separation in the top 3. If you'd told me that SCV was the champion that year, I'd be fine with that. Or Blue Devils - yup, they look like champions. Or Madison - with that closer, yup - looks like a 1st place corps to me All three pass the eyeball test, and I've got no beef with how the judges saw it.

    And looking at Gregg's scores at http://www.fromthepressbox.com/ - Madison was steadily moving up in the late season, passing Phantom and closing the gap on SCV (they just didn't face BD in the late season - another reason why the regionals now are so cool!).

    Mike

    I agree. It was a great season. The top 3 were HOT. I have such fond memories of travelling with SCV that year. Such a class act they were/are. I still have so much respect for them. Was happy to be on the field with them when they took it in '89.

  16. You're right. And most people that attended 1988 Finals would agree, except former Scouts members and Scouts homers. Almost everyone else is in agreement SCV should've won that show. Going to Europe in 1988 [just going...forget about any rehearsal advantage it may have had], along with the fact that it was Madison's 50th anniversary year, added to the CI [tug the heart strings, mystique] in a big way. I don't blame you for telling yourself that you were awesome and deserved it...I'm sure I would too! Congratulations on your win in 1988. No one can take it away from you.

    I love how you say, "No one can take it away from you" right after you try and take it away from me. Who is everyone else that agrees that SCV should have won that show? Almost everyone else is a broad statement, and it sure as heck didn't seem like the 40,000 in the stands did based on the eruption when BD was anounced in 3rd and even bigger eruption when SCV was announced in 2nd. People are entitled to their opinion, but we were awesome in '88 - so were SCV and BD. Had either of them won, I would not be on here proclaiming we got screwed. The numbers fell in our favor....numbers given by qualified judges, but I always forget that everyone on here is qualified to judge every single caption from a video performance no less. It doesn't matter what anyone says on here, I am World Champion, I have a ring, and it was given to me by a set of people who certainly know a heck of a lot more than any of us when it comes to judging.

    I can't believe people think there is some conspiracy behind that win (like the judges purposely robbed SCV) when the finals judges had NO IDEA where the semi-final judges placed everyone. I think it speaks volumes about the quality of the judging that there were only two changes in placement from semi's to finals (Garfield hopped Cavies and VK hopped Spirt). I think the blind draw created a level of fairness in judging never seen before or since. Not that I disagree with judging much, because I have no qualifications to judge.

    CI had absolutely nothing to do with our win, nor did any "tug the heart strings". It was a magical year, and unexplainable forces did seem to be at work, but the Scouts were generally a 4th - 7th place corps years before '88 and years after '88. Everything that a corps needs to have happen to win did for us in 1988. The fact that Madison won in 1975 had no barring on the judges awarding us first place, nor did our 50th anniversary, or going to Europe. Speaking of Europe, you were not there. I was. We had a lot of free time on that tour as the staff wanted us to experience Europe rather than just rehearse and perform.

  17. I think the 1987-1989 Scouts completely debunked this competitive inertia theory. The corps was coming off a narrow 6th place finish in 1987 (a few tenths from being 8th), 7th in 1986, since 1976 they had only been in the top 3 once (1981) and the top 4 three times(1978, 1981 and 1985). Hardly cometitive inertia. I would venture to say that no one in their right mind would have every thought we would have won prior to the start of the 1988 season, or even late into the 1988 season. We had ZERO "competitive inertia". What we had was a solid program, a great staff, an excellent design and a talent corps. 1989, we did not have all those things. IMO the program was lacking in design - the corps was talented, the staff was good.... it just didn't work. Had we had "competitive inertia" we should have then finished 4th (I thought the top 3 that year were far above those beneath them). We finished 7th.

    Corps success depends on experience, staff, design and talent. That is why corps move up and down the ladder, or stay where they are. Let's look facts in the face - people are competitive by nature. We want to win. It is a different world today. Back in the 70's a lot of people were local (a lot were in our '88 corps). Nowadays, it is different. People can and do march with top tier corps because not only do they want to be the best they can be, they want to win.

    Do I think Bluecoats will win this year? No. But, they do have one heck of a show, so who knows.

    I think the "proof" for competitive inertia is explained by the simple fact that it is harder to move up in the ranks than it is to fall down. Crown has been doing EVERYTHING right since the 2006 season (and before) - that is why they are now in a position to challenge for a title. Not because they finished 2nd last year.

  18. SCV 1999 and 2000 would like a word with you.

    You have a point, but I agree with the original poster. I loved SCV 1999 and 2000, but as a classical music lover, they picked pieces that are actually beautiful those years. I really hate 20th century classical music. By and large, the composers of that area (and yes, I am generalizing a bit here) have sucked the passion out of classical music. I just don't understand, with SO much wonderful 17th, 18th and 19th century classical music out there, the Vanguard continually chooses passionless 20th century pieces. Where is Mozart, Beethoven, Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, etc....? Prokofiev and Shostakovich, IMO, are the best the 20th century has to offer.

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