WarriorHal

So, how many female members do the Scouts have in their first season as a coed corps?

For many years, what used to be called junior drum corps had coed corps, all boy corps, and all girl corps. In addition to competing against the all boy & coed corps, the all girl corps had their own competitions, including at major competitions like the World Open. Did anybody ever accuse the all girl corps of discriminating against boys? I seriously doubt it. My assumption is that the all girl corps gradually disappeared as the number of girls interested in joining such corps declined and the resulting financial repercussions of that lack of interest. Now we live in a politically correct culture where maintaining a decades long tradition, such as an all boy drum corps, is viewed as discriminatory, non-inclusive, and therefore bad. So the Scouts long tradition is gone. As the last hold out, I wonder if the Cavaliers are feeling pressure to board the non-discriminatory, inclusion train.

Which corps proposed the rule change for allowing any instrumentation (woodwinds) in the first place?

Sure he didn't say 1965? That was the Royal Airs best season. They won everything that year, including both the AL & VFW national championships. Here is their performance at the VFW:

What I took issue with is your statement that there is no difference between 150+ guys and one girl guest performer and a fully coed corps. That is ridiculous. Beyond that, you actually believe that fundamentally changing the makeup of the corps and tossing aside 80+ years of history and tradition is no big deal? You "don't understand the uproar" over the decision and "this is the way of world," so anybody who has a different opinion needs to just "get over this." Got it.🙄

Director Bill Howard's young daughter skipping around the field as Alice in Wonderland in pre-DCI 1971; a trained dancer featured in the Carmen show in 2005; and a featured flugelhorn soloist in the 2018 disaster. A single female guest performer three times in 80+ years is no different than a fully co-ed corps with girls in every section? Not saying the change will be bad, but it's no different than 150+ guys and one guest female performer? That's ridiculous.

Reading a bit between the lines, I believe Chuck is saying in his FB post that this is such a young, inexperienced corps, they were not yet capable of successfully performing a complex, advanced program. He states this pretty clearly: "The priority is to teach and retain so we never have to start at such an elementary level again - which translates into more advanced show design, which fuels the cycle of success." This year, the corps began at an "elementary level" -- which means high school kids and others with little or no drum corps experience. I assume the Scouts have the same situation with their color guard. By comparison, many if not most top-12 World Class corps are filled with young men and women who are college music majors who have a great deal of drum corps/guard experience. And their shows aren't designed for entry level performers.

Parents of kids in this year's corps say there are less than one handful of members with as much as three years of experience -- lots of 16-19 year olds. With such a young corps, Chuck Naffier says that prioritizing being a crowd favorite over "playing the game this first year pays dividends in retention. Is 14th better than 18th if no one comes back? This is our reality." Two more quotes from his FB post I found promising: "Information, teaching, and going through second tour together for the first time are essential to setting a standard for preparation in the fall before camps begin ... These members are hungry for success, and we are in the process of giving them the tools to grow far past August 10th, 2019."

Interesting post by Chuck Naffier on a Scouts FB fan page giving his take on what has gone on this summer. He says the members of the 2019 Scouts have great enthusiasm but "very little experience," and describes the undertaking as a "complete rebuild." He says the strategy was to put together a crowd pleasing show at the expense of "playing the game this first year" because that should pay off in retention. Getting the young members to return is the key, and "kids come back for staffs who come back in this era." He acknowledges that upgrades are needed in many areas and says the approach to programming in 2020 will be different. The first step was letting applause "wash over the guys, and building an appetite" for that kind of crowd reaction. He says there will be a larger recruiting pool next season and the corps will perform better. It took more than one year to reach this point and there are "no magic bullets." Going forward, he says the priority is to "teach and retain so we never have to start at such an elementary level again - which translates into more advanced show design, which fuels the cycle of success." So the good news is that the staff does seem to have a plan. But with 2019 being step one in a total rebuild, that raises the obvious question of how the hell did top management allow a long-time powerhouse like the Madison Scouts to get into this predicament?

You really don't understand why alums of the corps and their long-time fans are more concerned about their favorite corps than the others? It's not "arrogant" and "condescending." It's competition! I don't dislike any corps, but I only root for one -- the Madison Scouts have been my favorite since 1971. It's the nature of any competitive sport or activity. You complain that the Scouts are getting too much attention from their former members and fans. They want their favorite corps to do well. Shocking! I see you started the Troopers 2019 thread, so you must be a big fan/supporter of the corps. Maybe you are upset that the Scouts are getting so much more attention than a corps they currently are roughly equal to competitively? So unfair 😠 Maybe you should spend more time pontificating on the Troopers thread and less here. Until they stop keeping score and hand out trophies to everybody for participating, most people -- not you obviously -- will continue to root for their favorite corps to outscore the competition.

Troopers were great in the 60s BEFORE DCI. They were still an elite corps 1972-74, but never won DCI. They barely made finals in 1975 thanks to whoever turned in the Muchachos, and then became a perennial non-finalist, making finals only five times since then. So no, their place in drum corps history -- especially since 1972 -- doesn't compare to the Scouts. As a 10 year-old, I watched the Troopers win the 1965 World Open. 1999 seems like about 10 minutes ago to me. It's a matter of life experience & historical perspective.

The Troopers 2019 thread is 6 pages long; the Scouts thread is now 142 pages. That should tell you something about the level of interest and expectations for those corps among both alumni and long time drum corps fans. Scouts made DCI finals every year from 1973 - 2001 and won DCI twice. None of the perennial 15-25 place corps you mentioned earlier begin to compare to Madison in terms of their place in the history of drum & bugle corps. Not everybody was born in the 1990s or later. And many of us experienced and remember every year of DCI's existence and many, many years before that. What's happened to the Scouts is indeed sad.

Scouts website lists a BOD of 9 people, including CK. The Boston Crusaders seemed to have figured something out over the past several years. Their website lists an 8 member executive board and a BOD of 35 people! I'm guessing those 43 people have a whole lot of contacts in the Boston financial sector and tech hub -- $$$$ -- and some may be members. It costs a ton of money to successfully operate a top level corps these days and that isn't going to change going forward. Are the Scouts just hopelessly outgunned in this new era?

Agree. Retire the Madison Scouts name and completely rebrand. This is a fundamental change -- 80+ years of history and tradition are over and done with, so bury it. This will now become just another generic DCI corps with no identity that sets them apart from the rest of the crowd. Wear a different theme appropriate costume every year, incorporate lots of big props, play music only college music majors are familiar with and enjoy, design shows for the judges. Apparently, that's what most people want today. Drum corps has evolved into a completely different activity that is unrecognizable to long-time fans. So do whatever you have to do to blend in and compete with the other modern day corps. Just start the new era with a new name.

Madison should start fresh next season by retiring the name Scouts and rebrand under a new name.