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Stu

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Posts posted by Stu

  1. It took me 32 pages to get the What Happened thread closed by posting stupid stuff. Thought I could do it in half of that! And for pete's sake y'all when a redundent thread like that pops up again, lighten up and let loose a little 😋

  2. 2 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

    It really should be purged. It’s become a dumpster fire thread with nothing of value.

    People claim they believe in freedom of speech, and censorship is a bad thing; that is until they disagree with what is being said, call it nothing of value, and then want it purged. So it goes, so it goes.

    • Like 1
  3. 21 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

    the Madison issues are covered in the existing thread. This was derailed, and I admit, i fell for Stu's bait for a bit, but i haven't since. this should be purged

    Typical. You don't agree, you dont' like it, you think it is inept, and you, Mr. DCP Jeff, want it purged. Typical.

    • Haha 1
    • Confused 1
  4. 1 hour ago, LabMaster said:

    Why would a fee be needed?  What would it matter. An MM should be able to go wherever they want to go so long as the have all debts paid or resolved in some manner with the corps they are departing.  And they audition successfully with the new corps as well.  It isn't NCAA or pro soccer.  It is a youth activity run by adults but they should still make it so a participant can easily participate and no corps should ever pay another a fee of any sort.  Is that so hard to understand?

    Sure it is easy to understand. A 17 year old used to stay and age out with their corps, loving their corps, helping make their corps better. Now a 17 year old spends one year with the Troopers, two years with Spirit,  (both providing great experiences but no ring) then ages out with BD (or SCV, or Crown, ...) to hopefully get that ring. It has nothing to do with love of others, love of corps, but love of self.

    As for the fee, even though BD has capital, it would help deter them from pulling talent away from other WC corps.

  5. 17 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:

    Stu, you are out of touch.

    And out of debt!!! And so are my kids!!!! And so are my grandkids!!!! Not because we are rich in financial wealth, far from it. But we live by the creed of reap by work, live by and within your means, if you can't get your desire that way do not go for the immediate gratification which yields delayed massive debt.

    Most people today could live that way. They just choose the quick for now route. And If others want to live the play now pay later life, just do not ask me or my family to bail you out when overloaded with debt.

    • Sad 1
  6. 1 minute ago, Jake W. said:

    You're being incredibly naive about this, Stu. All available sources state around 70% of students graduate nowadays with student loan debt. It's a huge problem facing our economy and every generation other than yours. If you gatekeep marching corps to kids without student loan debt, then you cut out 70% of college kids in America, and our activity would be gutted.

    I did not say prevent. I said it was stupid and irresponsible to go massively in debt  with student loans and pay for corps instead of for that debt.

  7. 24 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

    This is called an anecdote, gramps. But even if it's true (and I don't believe it is, but let's go with it for the sake of discussion) then your 3 grand children are exceptionally high achievers who were lucky to receive generous financial aid packages.

    Most kids will not have that option available. Your grand children are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of young people will not be in that position when they graduate high school. You can't just ignore the plight of the masses because a handful of exceptional individuals can make it work.

    Not ignoring plight. There are a lot of other means of securing an education than going massivly in debt. It is just far far better to work at a job and pay for a smaller less expensive school than to go over 100,000 in debt for a piece of paper to hang on the wall with a supppsed prestigious name on it. Moreover there are colleges and universities which take needs based youth and their education is provided in excange for working on campus. Yes here in 2019. Look it up!

  8. 3 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said:

    It’s not feasible to just “make excellent grades work nights and weekends” to pay for college in 2019. It hasn’t been for quite a while now. Maybe 1-2% of people will get full ride or close to full ride scholarships from academics. That still leaves a huge amount of young people who have one path to a college education — student loans.

    But screw them, right? You got yours. Back when it was easy.

    I have three grandchildren currently attending university. Did they take out loans? Nope. Is anyone in or out of our family paying their way? Nope. Are they each on scholarship and working jobs to pay for university (just like gramps did)? Yep. And last time I checked this is the year 2019. So.....

  9. 55 minutes ago, LabMaster said:

    So what if the corps the MM wants to go to is further down the totem pole and has less money, to the point they cannot afford a transfer fee to the possibly more well off corps the MM is departing from?  Say an MM wants to depart a financially stable top 2 corps for a less "wealthy" 15th place corps.  Specific reason notwithstanding.  Are you saying that MM sits out for a year?  Well that is what you are saying and that is not fair to the MM.

    IMO the only obligation the MM has to the corps they are departing, is that all monies owed are paid & all equipment returned,  whether they go to a WC or OC corps.  The corps the MM is going to,  cannot not allow the MM to march a competitive show during the season unless the MM is clear of the debt.  The debt can be cleared any number of ways but it should be cleared.  That would be my stipulation for a kid moving from one corps to another.  Oh and a MM cannot move once the season starts.  A transfer fee is not needed.  It is not servitude not is it the NCAA school athletics transfer situation either.

    As far as pilfering an MM?  How does one pilfer a person?  Is that like kidnapping?  Is can any OC corps not directly part of another WC organization be thought of or used as a "feeder" corps? 

    WC to OC no fee paid by OC. Unrestricted Free Agency.

    OC to WC no fee paid by WC. Unrestricted Free Agency.

    WCx to WCa, no matter what placement, WCa pays a commission fee. Restricted Free Agency.

  10. 1 hour ago, exitmusic said:

    How wonderful for you! Must have been nice. This is simply not achievable today, thanks largely in part to the boomers' gutting of the economy from about 1981 - 1992. You got yours. Now you're out here telling us how we need to march at one band because REASONS.

    YOu're a walking Old Economy Steve.

    QwjGGRQ.jpg

    I wasn't talking about how much student debt you owe, I was talking about how much you profit off of the student debt of the kids you bemoan in your earlier posts. (Spoiler alert: You own a lot more of it than you think you do.) You're welcome for the free money!

    If a teen wants to make excelent grades, earn an academic scholarship, work nights and weekends to pay for higher education an drum corps that is fine with me.

    If a teen wants to place a heavy debt burden on himself, that is his prerogative. But he better not take my hard earned money to pay it off (as in using my taxes, which the government confiscates, to relieve him from getting in over his head).

    By the way, if I happen to profit from their financial stupidity, well I am fine with that

    Moreover, it is the most narcissistic fool of fools who takes on massive student loan debt, and instead of paying down that debt, pays 3k to 5k per year to march corps.

    • Like 1
  11. 1 hour ago, ftwdrummer said:

    SO the rule you're putting in place tells the performer "if you join this corps for one year, you can only spend your money to perform at the highest level with this one corps. If you have any interest in ever performing with another corps at this level, you will be forbidden from performing at this level at all for one year, which could potentially include your last eligible year to march. And if we decide that you're not good enough for us to take your money anymore, you still won't be allowed to try and sign on with another corps at this competitive level for a year."

    Just to make it clear, this is your position on the matter, yes?

    Also, I find it interesting that choosing to spend next year differently than you spent this year constitutes "immediate" self-gratification. It's not like members see that the corps they signed on with is coming out of the gate slow and are leaving the last week in June to march at surprise-corps X.

    Nope. You missed the option which would in fact allow direct season to season WC to WC transfer. If a member transfers from WC-x- to WC-a- the very next season, WC-a- would pay compensation to WC-x-. It is called restricted free agency. It deters WC-a- from pilfering talent from WC-x and using WC-x- as a feeder.

  12. 43 minutes ago, ftwdrummer said:

    Shows what I get for not proofreading...

    I'll revise and extend here with the note you pointed out corrected, in the hopes that you won't dodge the rest of the post this time.

    Demonstrate to us how being forced to sit a year to change corps is not a significant impedance to members' ability to march, especially in an activity with a mandatory retirement age.

    Also demonstrate to us that members would be guaranteed slots if they returned, instead of having to audition the following year, at which point they might be cut but are unable to move to another corps while their "reserve" year is in place.

    Members commit to march at a corps for one year. That's what's contracted. The contracts you're stipulating would basically be equivalent to implementing the old MLB reserve clause--which, if I recall correctly, you quoted yourself as being firmly against. I fail to see why something that got pushed out of sports where the performers (which, let's face it, professional athletes are) are compensated for their time and effort should be applied to an activity where the performers compensate the activity for their time and effort.

     

    Impead desire for immediate self gratification and a life lesson in you can't always get what you want? Yes. Impead actually performing with a corps each season? Nope.

    As for guarenteed spots. There are no guarentees anywhere in life. Another life lesson.

    • Haha 1
  13. 2 hours ago, PamahoNow said:

    I hate to jump back into this topic, but I agree with this completely.  And I would expand on it, even if the staff were great, the foot succulent, and the rest plentiful, they should have the opportunity to go wherever they wanted the following year.

    I am a boomer (one of the first, born in 1946).  What I see now in Drum Corps is exciting and I enjoy much of it. And I think youth of today are a mixed bag, some great, and some not so great.  As were kids in my generation.  

    The kids (young people, yadda yadda) today all sign a contract (or their parents do).  I fully expect them to live up to that contract.  And if during the season, the going gets rough, I fully think that they should endure it, give it their all, and even suffer through it.  And from what I have seen, they do for the most part.  That is part of learning commitment and honoring your obligations.  But once their contract is over, surely they have no legal or even moral obligation to continue to march with that same group the following summer (assuming they want to).  

    Now if someone (say Stu) wants to start or take over a drum corps, and he wants to initiate a policy that require contracts that stipulate that if you march here, you must march here the rest of your career, I have no problem with it.  But I predict that he will get few takers.  I am also sure that any such contract would not stand legal muster should someone "violate" it.  And there is no specification in the ByLaws of DCI requiring it.  (There is a requirement that you pay your financial obligations to a former corps, which is understandable, and which does teach marchers you honor commitments.)

    Now, where would Stu find any moral requirement in requiring a current marcher being required to march the same corps in succeeding summers?  I'm not sure where to look.  Just because, historically, when drum corps was (mostly) local, kids marched the same corps year after year and got dedicated to that corps, I see no moral argument arising.  (Philosophers among us would complain the this is attempting to get an "ought" from an "is".  Doesn't work that way.)  Bringing in the "Little League" example does not work either, since it has specified restrictions in their ByLaws. So, by joining, a kid (or more likely a family) is agreeing to those restrictions.  So you cannot find a moral requirement here either.

    Long ago (in 1998) after his first year in HS, my son marched a Div 1 corps and had a great time.  But he had a dream corps (also Div 1) he wanted to march with, so he tried out for that corps and marched a second summer with his dream corps.  I guess Stu would have forbidden that. My son never marched again in his next 5 or 6 years of eligibility for a number of years.  But as he continued his music education, he stayed interested in drum corps, and for the last dozen or so years, he had been on staff of his dream corps.  

    Similar requests to the one I proposed to Jeff.

    A) Show where I posted that required contracts would stipulate if you march here, you must march here the rest of your career.

    B) Show where I posted that it would be 'forbidden' to change corps.

  14. 1 hour ago, exitmusic said:

    Who do you think buys the things that result in your shares of stock having more value? 

    What do you think the yield of your bonds is based on? How much student debt do you own? (Probably quite a lot.)

    You know nothing about me.

    It's MARCHING BAND. MARCHING BAND. Kids should be in the band they want to be in.

    What happened to Madison? Failure of management to adapt. (See also: "Cadets, The")

    And you know even less about me. But let me help.

    Gained respect for wise old gents when both my dad and a retired Christian preacher began to council me on the vertue of caring more about serving others than myself. And part of that service was to allow me the opportunity to learn wisdom by accepting failure, heartache, and pain with grace. Both of them died long ago, and I was able to handle that grief with grace. I hope and pray I can now, as an old gent, mentor youth in the same way..

    Oh, and I never had any student loan debt. Recived academic scholarship and worked full time; graduated with a 3.89 GPA. Take care. Back to DCI discussion. And God Speed to ya.

  15. 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

    you want to entirely impede the option of kids going to a different corps, or at least significantly do so. A kid honors their season long commitment, and wants to go. you want eliminate corps hopping. You want to crow about honoring a commitment...well the kid did. they finished the year they signed a contract for. You're trying to make that contract for multiple seasons.

    You still have not showed me where I said they were 'forced' to stay in a situation they hated. That was your claim.

  16. 2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

    and yet again, you duck, doge spin parry and thrust...a kid has a miserable experience...yet you want him forced to stay. What is the logic behind this?

    Show me where I said anyone was 'forced' to stay in a situation they hated without the free will option to leave and go home. If you can do that I shall respond.

  17. 5 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

    and how many corps have the means to hand out 154 of those a year?

     

    You continue to kill your argument the more you fight for it. Someday, you'll learn to quit when you're far, far behind

    Not everyone in a 300 member university marching band receives scholarships either. But I was merely pointing out that many corps did, and still do, offer performers they want to retain some sort of financial help.

  18. Just now, Jeff Ream said:

    psst...kids left corps for other corps 40 years ago. You just didn't have the internet to blather on about it

    True that some left. Mainly drummers who would follow caption heads like ducklings. But it was not the norm. The norm was corps loyality. That begin to change as the activity moved into the new millennium and corps hopping became widely acceptable.

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