Bsader

In 1975 three of my friends and I walked into a a local cinema thinking we were about to watch a serious, historically based movie about the search for the Holy Grail but, as you may have already guessed, we had in fact walked in on Monty Python and the Holy Grail having no clue as to who Monty Python was and what we were about to experience. We arrived late, just after the opening credits, so my first visual was that of what I took to be an English Knight riding a horse but......what? Fast forward 43 years and my four Brothers and I, along with a few hundred other die-hard MP fans, had the privilege of taking in a night with John Cleese this time at a local auditorium. The night started with Mr. Cleese showing the movie which was then followed by a discussion of it's making along with a few anecdotes on his experiences being a member of MP.

And just where do you conceal this skewer? If it's where I think it is then that would mean the joke is on you. The joke is on you? Is that what I meant to say? The joke is on you? I just can't figure out what I meant to say but since you are so clever I'm sure you will be able to figure it out.

Wow you really skewered me! Comments have been made for the last 9 hours on this topic so...I wonder how I could have missed the fact that the earlier posts were made 10 years ago. Everyone skims through this ####. You must be one of those guys who carries a skewer around with him everywhere he goes.

Yes, because everything must be totally under control or the world will descend into chaos and we will all be left on our own to fend for ourselves against the wild beasts!

Scopes, as in John Thomas Scopes... the Scopes monkey trial guy? He didn't show up tonight? Maybe it's because he's not happy with the way Drum Corps has evolved.

I know I was just being a bit of a wise ###.

I still think they have a good chance of going undefeated this year despite losing in Clovis.

You what?

They let themselves fold while Boston did not despite undergoing many more hardships compared to that other Boston area Corps. Having said that I wish they were still around as well.

It's possible because I don't really consider myself a Drum Corps person and I hate hotel waffles!

Is it possible that your positive thoughts regarding Flo may be the result of their past dismal performances creating low expectations.

NCAA baseball/softball is based on meritocracy. If a young woman can prove herself to have the necessary baseball/softball skills that makes them capable of performing to the level of the young men then they would most certainly be allowed to play. If they are not allowed despite this skill level I would think then I would think it would only be because of the misguided prejudices of those making the selection and that would most certainly be wrong. If you follow Woman's collegiate sport then you would believe, as I do, that their will be more and more instances in which young women will be performing with the young men. They will not be denied. It is my understanding Drum Corps auditions and acceptance are based sole on capability with the exception of two. These two Corps continue to deny young women to be able to perform with them no matter how exceptional they are. If this were 1976 and Bonnie Ott, that years Mellophone soloist for the Blue Devils, chose to audition for the Cavaliers she would have been denied based solely on her gender and that would have been way back in 1976 or forty two years ago.

I wish them well also. I also wish them future clarity from their continued cognitive dissonance.

You are playing the game of cherry picking everything that is not relevant to the point. You also seem to be purposely overreacting as if you are the victim in all of this. You replied here "that may not have been you but it was insinuated...." Your the one who is doing all the insinuating.

Agree in part though I believe that the the Cavaliers and the Scouts are uniquely wrong compared to other Corps that make up DCI. I suppose this is irrelevant but two of my favorite shows in the history of Drum Corps are '75 and '78 Madison. I also would like to add that, and I maybe wrong on this, but I don't recall saying that the Cavaliers should be force by law to accept young women into their Corps and that they should be sued if they don't. If I did then I was barking up the wrong tree. But it is my opinion that just because the Cavaliers may have the right doesn't make it's right.

This is all about the hypocrisy of selective outrage for me. Why are so many bending over backwards to excuse behavior that would be considered inexcusable given somewhat different circumstances. So I'll say it....if a member of the gay community was discriminated against for any reason many of you responding in favor of the Cavaliers continuing to discriminate against Women would be outraged and rightly so as that can not and should not stand. Many, if not all of you, believe in what I will refer to as the inclusion movement. What I don't understand is how one can choose to believe in and promote the need for our country, and the people of Oklahoma, to stop being so close-minded and be inclusive while, at the same time, decide to turn a blind eye to the practice of exclusion. In a reply to this post one spoke of his outrage regarding the reaction of a man to the end of the Cavaliers show. The man was a Father and was attending the show with his young Daughter. The writer of this reply spoke of his outrage as to the Fathers statement to his Daughter telling her "You will never march in that Corps." Again, I don't understand how the writer could not see the hypocrisy in his outrage because, in fact , the Father was right because the young girl will not march in the Cavaliers because the Cavaliers are purposely not going to let her. I am sure that many who read that Fathers remark were outraged by it while, at the same time, somehow continue to think that it ain't no big thing that the young girl will be denied the right to perform with the Cavaliers even if she rejected her Fathers closed-minded view of the world. To me I find it sad that this young girl is stuck between the views of her Father and the policy of the Cavaliers. I believe that if the Cavaliers truly want things to change then they should look in the mirror and realize they need to do some changing themselves. They should cut this Girl a little slack and give her some hope that maybe, one day, she can prove her Father wrong and perform with the Cavaliers. If anything it may help the Father begin to view the world with a more open mind because, if you know Fathers, they usually become big fans of what their daughters choose to participate in.

I am so glad you brought up the Boston Crusaders. So, you say you're looking for the Boston Crusaders to save you? O.K., maybe taking a look at the Crusaders history could truly save you. During the '60's and '70's when many of the Corps across the nation were choosing to evolve by allowing young women into their Brass and Percussion and young men into their Color Guard sections the Crusaders refused claiming that it went against their traditions. They claimed that, during the entire history of the Crusaders no young Women were allowed to perform in their Brass and Percussion sections and that was the way it was going to stay. They believed tradition was all important as tradition was what was helping to keep the Crusaders alive despite all of their epic struggles. So, the Crusaders were using their history and traditions to justify the exclusion of young women? Sound familiar? The Crusaders were receiving considerable criticism for their intransigence at the time and, in my opinion, rightly so. But what I did find more than a little interesting is that the same people who were being critical of the Crusaders for not allowing young women into their Brass and Percussion sections were very supportive and fans of the Madison Scouts and the Cavaliers. Some people continue to argue to this day that no comparison can be made between the Crusaders policy of the 60's and 70's and the current policies of the all-Male Corps. Quick question..are their anymore all-Female Corps? I should point out that the Crusaders Color Guard refused to allow young men to perform with them. I suppose one could choose to echo the argument put forth earlier that the Crusaders Brass and Percussion section were merely choosing to be a fraternity of brothers and their Color Guard a sorority of sisters. Though it took the Crusaders too long to evolve they did finally realize in the early '80's the absurdity of this policy of exclusion and began to allow young women into their Brass and percussion sections. In doing so the Crusaders received much praise for finally evolving and choosing to no longer be so close-minded. Of course many of the same people who chose to praise the Crusaders for finally evolving continue to be supportive and fans of the Cavaliers .

Ask yourself this. Why are so many working so hard to justify keeping young women out of the Cavaliers. It's not a big deal....their just women...they don't have cooties.

Dude? Is the caterer a dude? Who cares? Isn't that the point of the Cavaliers show...that we are suppose to care and be inclusive?

So the Cavaliers only accept a specific amount of audition tapes?

Feelings? #### feelings!

I wasn't aware of this. Are you aware that the Cavaliers Drum an Bugle Corps continues to practice gender discrimination?

Universal victimization? I believe in meritocracy for all which means everyone should be given the chance to compete for a coveted spot in the Cavaliers. If you don't make the cut then you just suck it up, practice your ### off, and try again next year. Their is that pesky question regarding ageism though.

So we are suppose to be careful now...is that it? Why should we have to be careful? Seriously...are you concerned for me? That is a bit of an ambiguous statement that is leaving me somewhat confused. I'm sure a lot of people do want to move on because this is a tiresome subject for many of them but I'm sure their are others who want to move on because they get uncomfortable when their hypocrisies are laid bare.

The Couchmen are freakin' awesome!