jwillis35

Very nice podcast to all involved. Well done, insightful, and respectful. I enjoyed listening to that. Thanks!

I think the current oldest WC drum corps is Madison Scouts (1938). Not sure if there were any inactive years for Madison but in terms of the year they were founded they would be the oldest now.

The Cadets in 1990 were super clean. Very mature show. Subtle, musical, artistic, and the sheer definition of professional playing and marching. That was a tough competitive year. I believe 6 corps all won regionals that season. Top 7 or 8 shows were all fantastic. Cavaliers and Star of Indiana were nothing short of amazing and championship caliber. Not to mention Blue Devils fabulous Tommy show. Phantom and SCV were also outstanding. It took until about a week and a half before finals that it looked like The Cadets might be the lead dog heading into Allentown and then Finals. Great season and one that I will always remember, and on top of it all was that brilliant Cadets show.

Good point. You'd probably have to allow OC to be 14-21 Let WC be 18-22 (23). If you're 17 but will be 18 before May 1 then you can march, and if you turn 23 anytime after May 1 you can still march I'm not sure any of this stops the issues with predators, idiots, or even with bullying, hazing and many other issues. What it could do is really help OC corps in growth and popularity. And though the age limit for OC could be 21 I think most of the kids would be in the range of 15-17. It takes a great amount of oversight and knowledge to work with groups where the age range can be from 14-21.

Sorry. Accidental repost.

I don't think it will happen, but if it did I would not cry. Part of me thinks that might be good. I've not been a fan of the "Association" model for governance (directors of the corps run the show). I think we need something new with a real vision for the future.

I think Crossmen should do something like this. Maybe change the title to "From Pennsylvania to Texas, We're Still Here." Or maybe (and I think you know the song) "We're Still Havin' Fun...and We're Still the One."

I think your opinion here is very valid and I imagine this is how many Cadets alumni and many volunteers feel. This is probably how they should feel. My heart says "NO no no no, I don't want to lose this historic corps!" But my head says it was time for Garfield/The Cadets to be put to rest. Just too many lawsuits, too many mistakes, too many victims. There were likely going to be more lawsuits. The damage by a director, a puppet board, and perhaps a few others was too much for too long. Too many people were harmed by the supposed "adults" in the room. Too many victims...and those victims deserve praise for coming forward and they deserve justice and help. If that means the corps goes away then so be it. As others have said it is complicated because we will miss the shows and all the hard work of the marchers and volunteers and the teachers who did things the right way. We will miss the history. But it was time. Pains me to say it...but it was time. The "adults" in the room had chance after chance and chance to make things right. The SHIP SUNK!!! Too many leaks and a few torpedo shots. In the end the damage from 1982-2017 was too much.

I agree and I think that's how most of us viewed him.

Good luck to Carolina Crown this year. Love them just about every year and I am sure I will love this year's show.

I've been too sad to really consider reflecting on shows and music that I have loved over the years from Garfield. We all knew this was going to happen. I'm going to echo what some others have said: the 2021 exhibition year show stands out to me. Not because it was the best show Garfield/The Cadets ever performed. Far from it. But it was that last reminder of what it felt like to watch the Maroon & Gold take the field. Those traditional uniforms. The fact that they gave us some of those goosebump moments from past shows and they sounded pretty good doing it. Watching the crowd in Indianapolis just absolutely go freakin' nuts at the company front in the Land Race (From Far & Away) was not only amazing to see but in some ways felt like the crowd knew instinctually that we may not see this anymore. Even though the corps managed to compete in 2022 and 2023 I think many knew it was going to be difficult for The Cadets to move forward. That company front is perhaps the last truly magical Cadets moment we will ever experience. The 2022 and 2023 shows were excellent, but the sight of the traditional uniforms and the pomp & circumstance of that company front with the heroic music of John Williams basically summed up what I used to love about this corps. I believe that singular memory may be imprinted in the minds and hearts of many as we grieve the loss of an iconic, historic, and great American drum & bugle corps. I continue to feel for all the good people who marched, volunteered, and taught with Garfield.

This is a good question. I didn't know him personally and heard all kinds of rumors about him, none of which I can backup. To me he was a strange guy. I do not believe he was a business person with a degree in business or management. He seemed more philosophical especially when you would read some of his posts. It seems clear he was a perverted guy who couldn't stop himself from harassing, flirting, and molesting women. The one story that was told by a staff member for YEA who went to the DCI meetings with him (where she wanted to go on her own, stay in her own room, etc) and he forced her to stay in his room is disgusting. He basically rapes this young lady. This is the behavior of a narcissist who thinks the laws don't apply to him. He had no concern for other human life as long as they were doing what he wanted. He wanted to be seen as a God, a figure of high popularity and power. There were rumors that he had attended EST seminars (Erhard Seminars Training). I can't verify that and it's probably not true; but his actions and narcissism made you think it could have been true. "Various critics accused est of mind control or of forming an authoritarian army; some labeled it a cult." - Taken from the WIKI page on Est. At any rate the job he had could have been a fantastic job but he ruined it, abused his power, and made the gig more about him than the corps, the kids, etc.

I will definitely take your word for it. You were closer to what went on, or at least had better insight. I guess I was never impressed with YEA. I knew GH had burned bridge after bridge...but you are correct that the USSBA (and eventually USBands) was a money maker.

Thanks. Yes, I forgot Boston. So Madison, Boston, and Cavaliers. Is that it for the corps that are left from the 20s, 30s, and 40s?

This is very true. In some ways you might say the Garfield Cadets were lucky to not have folded in the late 70s or early 80s. Being one of the older corps they were never setup for modern drum corps travel, education, and funding like many non-profits were that began in the 70s, 80s, or 90s (and this is not to say those groups were all setup perfectly either). The Cadets were essentially a church corps established for parades. Like many neighborhood corps of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s most of those groups do not exist today. I'm not sure if Madison and Cavaliers are the only two left. I don't think Racine Scouts are around anymore...or are they? But there is a reason most corps that were founded in the early 20th Century are no longer around. What kept them afloat (Garfield)? It was not GH as some might say (despite all his criminal behavior off the field). I think they got lucky that Zingali, Sylvester, Hannum, and Jim Prime Jr came in and designed some shows (with the creative help from Cesario) that pushed the activity forward. This brought them popularity and brand name and many of the older alumni started giving again. This is what really saved them temporarily...the alumni/fans/donors and the instructional team. And even with GH robbing Peter to pay Paul (cooking the books) they managed to thrive in donor contributions and also changes in instrument deals and other spnsorships. YEA never really panned out to be the "educational" org they said it would be. To me it was more a front for money collection. But by 2017 and 2018 -- when everything comes to light with GH and others -- we all knew that should have been the knockout punch. As much as my heart is bleeding due to the loss of an iconic and historic drum corps my head says this is the way it has to be. They had chance after chance after chance to make changes. They lacked the whistle blowers who may have known what was going on and who should have stepped up back in the 80s, maybe even the late 70s, and put a stop to the methods of operation and people within (no matter how high their rank) who were commiting crimes and/or who were engaged in behaviors not conducive to safety, education, and a positive learning environment. The Garfield Cades were one of the few corps that somehow crossed the divide between the early days of drum corps in America (the neighborhood corps, Scouts groups, CYO, AL, and VFW days) to modern DCI days; BUT...that transition was frought with error that would make it difficult for them to last unless someone with real forsight and a progressive look at education, funding, safe travel, community involvement and real purpose were to redefine the corps mission statement and not just the design of a show. So even without the criminial ongoings of the corps' leader it was always going to be difficult for a corps from 1934 to navigate the modern DCI environment.