Jeff Ream Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 can you feel the love tonight.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Kidd Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hung out with Dave at Chris Kilian's bachelor party last Friday. He didn't mention this review at all. The strippers weren't moving either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2ZJ Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 The strippers weren't moving either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigscontrachik05 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I'm a drummer, yet I review all sections of the corps. does make anything i say in my reviews about those sections less valid? Actually, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Hung out with Dave at Chris Kilian's bachelor party last Friday. He didn't mention this review at all.The strippers weren't moving either. "I've seen me a lot of weird stuff in my day, but I ain't never seen a one-legged stripper. I seen me a stripper with one breast. And I seen me a stripper with twelve toes. I've even seen me a stripper with no brains at all, but I ain't never seen a one-legged stripper. And I've been to Morocco. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenorTim Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 But that's the problem: he's NOT been "drawn and quartered" over his comment. Now, it's the "reaction to the reaction" that's getting blown out of proportion. You and Kyle seem to be thinking and saying that "Geez, this backlash is SO over the top" and it's not been. By continuing to hit on this meme, it's your reactions that are perpetuating the idea that Dave's review was outrageous - it was not. Leslie's reaction is completely understandable. His subjective opinion doesn't jibe with her reality, so she got that "Huh?!" feeling and wanted some clarification. Canuck also got a "huh?" reaction because his take is so at odds with Dave's. (Frankly, I did too, but that doesn't bother me so much.)When I do reviews, I very rarely if ever feel the need to say "I had X corps in X place". Fans who didn't attend the show I reviewed can read the recaps or the scores and come to their own conclusions about what happened in the competition. My job as a reviewer is to relay info they can't get from a recap. Maybe there is opportunity for some sort of judging travesty to occur, but short of it happening in Finals, it just doesn't matter, so why belabor the point? Maybe one or two judges get something wrong, but a corps getting royally screwed happens very infrequently. In those instances, a review including that kind of info/opinion is completely justified. (The DCW article about DCA Prelims in 1987 written by Ed Cagney about MBI finishing 11th comes to my mind.) The people who want to argue with the judging can do so, but it's all in the wording, too. A nimble writer can make a point without seeming confrontational. Not that I think Dave necessarily did that in this case. It's just that his comments in context appear to be saying, "ES doesn't move much, therefore they should be fifth". He also seems to be arguing that, because of his "revelation", ES' High Brass trophy win isn't legit. That goes beyond mere disagreeing with the judges. That starts calling the generally accepted rules of competition into question, and it starts smacking of a little disrespect. (See below for more on that thought.) Hey, the judges probably don't agree amongst themselves either, so it's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It's about making statements that can be verified, empirically true or untrue. Saying, "Cabs got screwed this year. That one judge dumped them," falls into the empirically untrue category. As I mentioned earlier, with proper dissection of the drills of the Top 5 or so, we can actually find out if ES moved "enough" compared to the other corps. I don't think anyone actually wants to do that. Opinions are not Zeus' aegis; they are not bulletproof, invisible shields meant to ward off any and all criticism. If one has the intent to make a cutting remark about something that can be verified, one should have some kind of proof to back it up. Notice that no one connected to ES has taken Dave on about his comments regarding the individual members' style, or lack thereof. (ES got 6th in the Field Vis caption, so he may have been on to something.) The retorts have only focused on his comment about the drill, because it has the virtue of being provably untrue. As in your 2006 review of Lewisburg, you replay the whole "ES making it look TOO easy" meme, with which I still take umbrage - based upon the principle that that statement makes no sense ("So, we should suck a little more, so that it looks its 'proper' difficulty?" or "So, if we can make it look that easy, we should have beaten Bucs, no?"), and not because it was directed at my corps. I think on DCP, we on the DCA side do a rather remarkable job of not disrespecting each other, since we are at once both fans and performers. Making comments about style ("I don't like props.") falls into pure opinion, hence completely non-verifiable. Making comments about substance gets a little trickier, because they require some objectivity, like saying, "The sopranos had a bad night; they missed attacks and releases." That kind of statement still is respectful because it is about a transient thing - one particular night's performance. But, telling members of a corps, "you don't move enough," (which is not only a constant week to week, but also is completely out of their control) when they have the "scars" that prove otherwise, starts sounding disrespectful. I know that's not what Dave meant, but this comment also has that tinge to it. PS: Check my prior post on this matter a little more closely; the review I showed getting knocked for not mentioning pits (except one) was pvt_cairns, not Dave's, so your agreement is misplaced. Dude, it's just Dave's opinion and doesn't require a dissertation by you to what he did or didn't do. I'm pretty sure that, if the comment was made about a different corps, you wouldn't be posting as hard. Move on with life ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck DCGroupie Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Dude, it's just Dave's opinion and doesn't require a dissertation by you to what he did or didn't do. I'm pretty sure that, if the comment was made about a different corps, you wouldn't be posting as hard.Move on with life ... Dale's post(s) is not attacking or being hard on Dave. He is just expressing his thoughts on this whole thread. If you actually knew Dale and looked at his past comments and reviews of shows etc., you would know he doesn't favor any specific corps. Yes he marched Empire once but Dale is probably the most honest reviewer I have ever seen on DCP. You in fact are defending Dave because it seems your were together once in the same corps. Thats my opinion. I agree, Dave can express his own opinion but this being a discussion board, all reviews etc. are up for discussion. The original question from the Empire member was not an attack on Dave but actually a request for clarification. Why do you see that as an attack on Dave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 If you actually knew Dale and looked at his past comments and reviews of shows etc., you would know he doesn't favor any specific corps. Yes he marched Empire once but Dale is probably the most honest reviewer I have ever seen on DCP. I will agree with you. I love the objectivity of Dale's reviews. As far as Dale being called out for favoring any specific corps, one thing I've learned is that it doesn't matter how long ago you may have marched somewhere. People will still call you out for favoring that corps. Even if you didn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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