RobH Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 (edited) Thanks for letting me know, Liz! I was beginning to have a "self esteem" issue there for a minute! But Sally has a point - it's a classic "direction of color guard" issue - and it's worthy of further discussion and dissection! Let's keep the discussion going here - even if I AM an old pre DCI snare drummer - the color guard was such an important part of a show! And always WILL BE! oxox Edited April 22, 2003 by RobH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 You will never convince me that what guards are doing these days is "guard". i just cannot understand how people can say this. If you pull out baseball tapes from the 20's, or basketball tapes from the 70's even, they are COMPLETELY different games now. The objective is the same, but the way its done, the rules, the strategies, the participants...they are completely different! YET they are STILL basketball and baseball. Just because guard has evolved doesnt mean its not guard anymore! while i am not thrilled with some of the evolution of drum corps in general, i do accept that it HAS evolved. and you have to take the good with the bad sometimes in evolution. i think there are still alot of guards out there who have excellent technique and work their butts off on the field and on the floor during winterguard season. yes, i do think some guards rely on dance just to have it in there and fill time. but when it is done with the music and with equipment work and done cleanly, it is as good as it gets. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Let's keep the discussion going here - even if I AM an old pre DCI snare drummer - the color guard was such an important part of a show!And always WILL BE! oxox i'm trying - both here and in the other thread B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobH Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 (edited) Liz, I'm sure we all agree that it's not a question of hard work with guard - it's clear that today's guard work their butts off, try just as hard to get a perfect show, and give 120% each and every day! That's not a problem - the issue is the DIRECTION the color guard should be going - and as a d###### former snare drummer I can't help much with this! I approach DCP as an "arena of ideas" so I struggle here with ways to make the drum corps experience better than it was! It's probably a topic for "senior management!" Edited April 22, 2003 by RobH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 no Rob, unfortunately we don't all agree that the guards work their butts off. both here and on RAMD i get the feeling from some people that they have no respect not only for the guard designers but for the performers themselves and the amount of work they put into their respective shows. when i read that there isn't a single guard out there that knows the first things about technique it pisses me off. i know that any guard i ever taught has had hand positioning for every single move of their show shoved down their throats til they are ready to choke. and i know a bunch of other instructors who do the same thing. and when people criticize dance in guard i think that isn't helpful either. as a former performer who started in a military guard and evolved into more dance oriented guard i can tell you it is so much harder as a performer to jazz run across the field doing drop spins in time than to march an 8 to 5 doing the same work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BennyASU Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 well said Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Whelp, here's my two cents and it's liable to #### some people off, but I could really care less (or is that couldn't care less) anyhoo... I, like Liz, got my start "back in the day". I stil have my white boots. I wore the heavy wool skirt. The hat. etc. I never understood how we could be doing a beautiful ballad and be high marking time and doing drop spins, slams and other "flag BASICS" and feel like we were accentuating the music in any way shape or form. I watch tapes from back in the day, and yes, the are clean, buddy. You will not find an error. But I'm thinking, if you're standing in one place, pile driving your feet into the ground, but not moving none the less, and doing flag basics, you had ###### well BETTER be clean. Back in the day, there was like 12 moves you could do within the following Spins Basic tosses (if you had a really avante guard instructor, otherwise that pole never left your hand) Angles slams all while either standing in place for an entire song, or making a box, making a straight line, fall out to a circle, fold back into a box, make an X..... wow...tough stuff there. Each and every guard, doing the same basic work. Ok...so ewwwwww.....yeah it was clean. Great. Yaaaawwwn, didn't I just see this from the last 12 guards....and the same thing the year before that, and the year before that? Think outside the box, will ya? Give me something NEW to look forward to. Now, enter today's guards. It is all up to the instructor the level of cleanliness a guard has. I have seen some guards and judged some guards that just look like a garage sale. I'm thinking "Are they even listening to the same song?????" I taught color guards for 10 years, judged a few shows too. And it was the modern, dancy, jump around like a ballerina spinning a comma type guards, and one comment I always got from the judges and audience members alike was compliments on how clean my guards were. It can be done. Just watch Blast. Clean as ####. Sometimes I just wonder if old school's grumblings isn't just the realization that their youth has passed and its somebody else's turn now. I also wonder if its living with the knowledge that they couldn't DO today's color guard work. I base this on comments from people within my own guard that marched back in the day. They've commented that doing today's guard work is much more demanding, but much more fun. I think since they've done both, that's an opinion I'll value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 while Lisa and i may not always agree on Politics and that type of stuff we are both on the exact same page when it comes to guard B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 no offense, then watch tapes. that isn't what guard is anymore. and it hasn't been that way for a long long time now. and there some incredibly talented guards out there if you took the time to look and not just judge it on the dance/theatrics. Sadly, the talent is being sacrificed for the non effective theatrics and awful, gaudy costumes. What is out there today clothing the guards is cheap, offensive(in some cases) and tasteless. It takes away from what the work could be and enhances the faults...takes away from unity, and creates individuality...... Its a group of people, not one person, or a group of individuals...its a unit supposedly working as a unit. Many guards today are awesome, outstanding and appeailng, sadly....many are not. ~G~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Todays work is not harder than work done "back in the day" Back in the day, you had to be clean, you ad to be in unison, you had to sell your show withy our talent...not your leaping, pirouetting and your expressions.....mind you, many of the dancing guards today do NOT execute or have unison. To see these guards pick up and put down their equipment any which way they want with no regards to unison and clarity is proof that they dont paya ttention to detail......even in the "dance" arena" leaps all done any which way, flailing hands and arms, messy free hands.....laughable. No, back in the day we worked on the little things to the point where they became second nature, then we went forward with the rest of the program. You cant build a house on a shoddy foundation. ~G~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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