GMichael1230 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 (edited) ...and remember, what was done "back then" was done paying attention to the marching program. They/we had to actually wear something on our feet, and we, heavens forbid, had to wear a uniform with a hat or headpiece..and still maintained execution, clarity and demand......... Guards today wear costumes, and dont tell me some dont worry about how they look and feel in those, umm.....awful deisgns. Guards just meander ontot he field, place their equipment down, and walk to their spots, half the shows they run to their positions, and NOT while handling any equipment, and must incorporate their dance maneuvers to be effective....... ~G~ Edited April 23, 2003 by GMichael1230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I don't really recall those ill fitting wool outfits to be particularly flattering on the thinner girls. Sure, maybe the heavier gals felt comforatble because all their sins were hidden under heavy wool, but I'd say about 90% of the people out there looked horrible in them as well. Look, the same arguments that are made for old school can be made for new school. It's like comparing apples to pencils. They're really two different things. Show me one form of entertainment, active entertainment, don't point me to the paintins in the Leuvre (sp) , and also besides kabuki (sp) theatre that is exactly the same today as it was in 1970. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 had to wear a uniform with a hat or headpiece.. we used to call it a maxipad. Guards in the late 70's and early 80's would use these hat forms that were a long slender white thing (looked like a maxi pad) and had sequins and or feathers or whatever. hahahha...Thanks, G~ you just brought back some good ( ) memories.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 (edited) Ok, so lets say you're right. Let's say you have more check marks on your "Who had the harder job" score card. What's the point? Unless you start your own successful guard unit...color guard is going to be the way it is.... Color guard today is what color guard instructors today make it. Funnily enough most of these color guard instructors marched back in the day. oh and... rest periods. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The first few minutes of our show this year is 200 beats per minute. While doing extremely difficult and extreme clean flag work. REST PERIODS??? I wish I could do drum corps in the 70's just so I could stand in one place for almost an entire song. SHEESH. Of course, I'd hate the shin splints from pile driving my feet into the ground. Edited April 23, 2003 by LisaLisaMoMeesa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Ok, so lets say you're right. Let's say you have more check marks on your "Who had the harder job" score card. What's the point? Unless you start your own successful guard unit...color guard is going to be the way it is.... Color guard today is what color guard instructors today make it. Funnily enough most of these color guard instructors marched back in the day. oh and... rest periods. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The first few minutes of our show this year is 200 beats per minute. While doing extremely difficult and extreme clean flag work. REST PERIODS??? I wish I could do drum corps in the 70's just so I could stand in one place for almost an entire song. SHEESH. But, Im not trying to be right, I was just responding where someone wrote one is harder than the other. In reality....BOTH eras have their difficulties......I have great appreciation for the physical limits that are pushed by topdays top guards. The guard of yesteryear had other limits pushed also. I respect and value both, I only have a gripe witht he lack of execution of todays guard and the over empasis on dance and self expression in an idiom that is designed by unity and toghetherness. If I had to choose between 1994 Blue Devils or 1981 27th Lancers...I couldnt, they both ave distinct features that are appealing, and both excell in different areas....... That..is..all !!! LOL ~G~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 rest periods. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The first few minutes of our show this year is 200 beats per minute. While doing extremely difficult and extreme clean flag work. REST PERIODS??? I wish I could do drum corps in the 70's just so I could stand in one place for almost an entire song. SHEESH. Of course, I'd hate the shin splints from pile driving my feet into the ground. Oh and...that may be your show (which I am looking forward to see) but I am talking about all guards, alot of them have rest periods..... ~G~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Lisa, I really respect your opinion on this, but I don't agree. My experience with the Cavaliers was anything but boring blocks, angles, slams and marking time for a whole song. We did dance, tumbling, all kinds of tricks, exchanges and tossed everything including the kitchen sink. So there was nothing really EASY for me in those days. For me it is not dance in particular, but the variations you get from performer to performer. I mention the Seattle Imperials colorguard from 78 frequently because you can freeze frame their performance in ANY frame, and you will find every performer in exactly the same position, every piece of equipment in the same place with the same hand placement, every kick in phase, every ballet movement done in complete clean unison with an air of professionalism unequaled even to this day. Every girl in the guard could audition for the Oakland ballet and make it. But they also had superior equipment skills and did an incredibly difficult book. However, the equipment never left their hands except to toss. Every dance or ballet movement was accompanied by a integrated equipment move. The equipment, and the movement were one. That is not the case today. It seems that there is a definate disconnection between the body and the equipment in todays performer. The last three WGI contests I attended look more like drill team contests when I was in high school. Alot of dancing, a little equipment work, alot of clutter with props, major lack in the precision and cleanliness area. Being military was our time. Dance is what they are doing now. Precision and cleanliness should be timeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsBusDriver Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 (edited) So maybe, as a new idea, perhaps the NAME Color Guard should be considered for modification to suit its style and its current role in drum corps - "visual team," "dance group," "artistic interpretation squad?" I thought they got rid of the name "Color Guard" and started calling them "Auxillary" (yuck). Anyway, A story. I learned Color Guard the '70s way. With one piece of equipment and all work being judged on the tic system. We had to spend hours and hours on our spins, present arms, right shoulders, slams etc. this encluded hand positions, angles and timing. Everything, every movement was broken down to the nth degree and cleaned. It was different then but it was still hard and we were exhausted at the end of the day. We also had the burden as the Guard to be the "goat" if the corps lost by 1 tenth of a point if a piece of equipment ever fell to the ground (they called it a penalty). I could never understand why it would be "our fault" we lost when a horn player blatted a note and got a tenth of a point tic too! Lots of pressure there. Now it is 2003. Last year I picked up a piece of equipment for the first time since 1975. I was a part of the SCV Alumni Corps. The first rehearsal I went to practically blew my mind. There was so much flag movement, spins, behind the head, helicopters, money hands, kris kross stuff, satelite dishes, over under inside out Oh...my...God... I never thought that I would ever be able to "get" this stuff! My 70s brain was just not wired for it. It was hard but once I started to get it, it was fun. One thing we didn't have to do though was really worry about our hand positions (too much). We still cleaned timing and angles so that was still the same. But the rest? Nothing like I've ever experienced before. I thought to myself "and they add dancing and running to this stuff too?" I came away from last year with a new found respect for what the kids are doing out there today. I watch it differently too since I'm now "in the know" of what goes into that kind of equipment work. I will always miss the old style. But I have plenty of tapes to enjoy the past. I would however like to see less "emoting" because it gets pretty cheesy and some of those "costumes" Hoo Boy. And it would be nice to if they would take the time to really look at what their guards are doing and decide if their talent level can handle all that stuff. If they can't, I would rather see simple equipment work that is "clean" and "together" than sloppy "frenetic" work done just to fill in the music. Edited April 23, 2003 by MsBusDriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_another_fanatic Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 (edited) For all you pro-old schoolers out there, I have a quick question for you: If, say the Blue Devils colorguard, came out in 2003 with the old school outfits and did the whole, "stand in place for a whole movement and spin the rifles" gig, you would be geniunely content? happy? entertained? screaming for more? Personally, I woud laugh myself to death (and so would alot of others) if we see anyone that pulls that off, clean or not. You want the new schoolers to be old schoolers, but in reality you have a firm realization that if such stunt occured, it would be SEVERELY unsuccesful, If they was a guard as clean as 27Lancers out, doing old school moves in the modern era, I think they wouldn't be even close to winning a guard caption. You might argue that all you want is CLEAN and EFFECTIVE color guard work for the modern guards. All I'll say is..ARE YOU EVEN WATCHING THESE COLOR GUARDS? I know plenty that are very very clean, at least one from each year since 1989. I don't even have to think to list them 1989: Phantom, Cadets 1990: Blue Devils, Cadets 1991: Cadets, Cavies, SCV 1992: Cadets, Cavies, Blue Devils 1993: Cadets, Star of Indiana 1994: Blue Devils 1995: Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavies 1996: Blue Devils, Phantom, Cadets 1997: Cadets, Blue Devils 1998: Blue Devils, Cadets 1999: Blue Devils, Cavies 2000: Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavies, SCV 2001: SCV, Cadets, Blue Devils, Cavaliers 2002: Cavaliers, Cadets, Blue Devils, SCV yea..they are all basically the same, but they're still clean, precise, and VERY MUCH NEW SCHOOL. Where does the old school guards end and the new school guards begin? With that in mind, I believe that the old school guard ended around the late eightees. So, when anyone discredits "modern" guards, I often think that they are displeased with amazing guards from 1989 to 2002 that I have already mentioned. Just one lesson to learn, I guess: GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE!! Edited April 23, 2003 by just_another_fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 (edited) I thought they got rid of the name "Color Guard" and started calling them "Auxillary" (yuck). Anyway, A story. I learned Color Guard the '70s way. With one piece of equipment and all work being judged on the tic system. We had to spend hours and hours on our spins, present arms, right shoulders, slams etc. this encluded hand positions, angles and timing. Everything, every movement was broken down to the inth degree and cleaned. It was different then but it was still hard and we were exhausted at the end of the day. We also had the burden as the Guard to be the "goat" if the corps lost by 1 tenth of a point if a piece of equipment ever fell to the ground (they called it a penalty). I could never understand why it would be "our fault" we lost when a horn player blatted a note and got a tenth of a point tic too! Lots of pressure there. Now it is 2003. Last year I picked up a piece of equipment for the first time since 1975. I was a part of the SCV Alumni Corps. The first rehearsal I went to practically blew my mind. There was so much flag movement, spins, behind the head, helicopters, money hands, kris kross stuff, satelite dishes, over under inside out Oh...my...God... I never thought that I would ever be able to "get" this stuff! My 70s brain was just not wired for it. It was hard but once I started to get it, it was fun. One thing we didn't have to do though was really worry about our hand positions (too much). We still cleaned timing and angles so that was still the same. But the rest? Nothing like I've ever experienced before. I thought to myself "and they add dancing and running to this stuff too?" I came away from last year with a new found respect for what the kids are doing out there today. I watch it differently too since I'm now "in the know" of what goes into that kind of equipment work. I will always miss the old style. But I have plenty of tapes to enjoy the past. I would however like to see less "emoting" because it gets pretty cheesy and some of those "costumes" Hoo Boy. And it would be nice to if they would take the time to really look at what their guards are doing and decide if their talent level can handle all that stuff. If they can't, I would rather see simple equipment work that is "clean" and "together" than sloppy "frentic" work done just to fill in the music. You and me both my friend. (On the frenetic flag work). As you know, Kathy Pearson is one of our instructors this year. (performed in SCV "back in the day" as well as in SCV alum and taught SCV a bunch of years) So you KNOW that we are either going to be clean or dead. Those are the options she's given us. :P Seriously, tho, we do the modern flag work, but every hand position is definted, the plane it is on, your body position, everything. Mark Metzger is writing our flag work. He's new school to the nth degree. Carol Abohatab is writing the dance and weapon work. Between Mark, Carol (who taught this years' champion Raiders world guard btw) and Kathy, we're going to be clean, we're going to be innovative, and we're going to entertain. Period. Because it is possible. BTW....when am I going to see you at a Renegade rehearsal? :P Edited April 23, 2003 by LisaLisaMoMeesa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.