TomPeashey Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 let me explain for the umpteenth time... a tick wasn't a tick... it was 1 tick 2 ticks 3 ticks 4 ticks 5 ticks or maybe even 6 ticks based on your tolerance... while there were some individual errors... far more time was spent evaluating a given move and assessing a "unit penalty"... during that period .6 was the worst you could apply... so if you looked at a company front and it had severe bends... the worst you could give it was .6 but then it got real tricky as you tried to control your tolerance... say corps one had 26 horns in that front and corps two had 52 in the same front... crooks and bends wise they were equal... obviously 52 is more demand than 26... so your expectation LOWERS for the 52... therefore - all errors equal you might choose to give the smaller line .6 and the larger line .3 as your expectation was lower... I can't possibly explain how complex this got especially as we left squad moves and progressed into modern drills... I know that the judges in RCA were told to base their tolerance on the best RCA corps they could imagine rather than the best overall corps they could imagine... this would cause a significant increase in the rca score... Thank the Lord we got rid of the tick system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugleboy1048 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I agree the tick system was bad, and I understand your point. As I remember there were some RCA corps back then that if a tick was a mistake you would have to had a box of pencils and a ream of paper. (by the way those were old memories venting after all these years, so please don't get so worked up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 let me explain for the umpteenth time... a tick wasn't a tick...it was 1 tick 2 ticks 3 ticks 4 ticks 5 ticks or maybe even 6 ticks based on your tolerance... while there were some individual errors... far more time was spent evaluating a given move and assessing a "unit penalty"... during that period .6 was the worst you could apply... so if you looked at a company front and it had severe bends... the worst you could give it was .6 but then it got real tricky as you tried to control your tolerance... say corps one had 26 horns in that front and corps two had 52 in the same front... crooks and bends wise they were equal... obviously 52 is more demand than 26... so your expectation LOWERS for the 52... therefore - all errors equal you might choose to give the smaller line .6 and the larger line .3 as your expectation was lower... I can't possibly explain how complex this got especially as we left squad moves and progressed into modern drills... I know that the judges in RCA were told to base their tolerance on the best RCA corps they could imagine rather than the best overall corps they could imagine... this would cause a significant increase in the rca score... Thank the Lord we got rid of the tick system... yep. the tick system was as subjective as any system currently used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 let me explain for the umpteenth time... a tick wasn't a tick...it was 1 tick 2 ticks 3 ticks 4 ticks 5 ticks or maybe even 6 ticks based on your tolerance... while there were some individual errors... far more time was spent evaluating a given move and assessing a "unit penalty"... during that period .6 was the worst you could apply... so if you looked at a company front and it had severe bends... the worst you could give it was .6 but then it got real tricky as you tried to control your tolerance... say corps one had 26 horns in that front and corps two had 52 in the same front... crooks and bends wise they were equal... obviously 52 is more demand than 26... so your expectation LOWERS for the 52... therefore - all errors equal you might choose to give the smaller line .6 and the larger line .3 as your expectation was lower... I can't possibly explain how complex this got especially as we left squad moves and progressed into modern drills... I know that the judges in RCA were told to base their tolerance on the best RCA corps they could imagine rather than the best overall corps they could imagine... this would cause a significant increase in the rca score... Thank the Lord we got rid of the tick system... in drums the judges were told to sample the different sections. so if you did well when the judge sampled your section and did poorly when he left no one knew. they couldn't say just hang out in front of the snares they had to move on. if you had a bad tymp line they couldn't just hang out there and destroy you. it served it's purpose for the time. it never bothered me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanforj Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I agree the tick system was bad, and I understand your point. As I remember there were some RCA corps back then that if a tick was a mistake you would have to had a box of pencils and a ream of paper. (by the way those were old memories venting after all these years, so please don't get so worked up) hah hah!! you are over here doing the tick thing too eh? If a drummer and a brass player are in the forest..and there is no one else around and they agree that they are both important to "DRUM" corps......if no-one hears the conversation..then...oh crapp it didn't happen.....but did the judge hear it ..or was there no sound at all?? What happens in the forest stays in the forest........................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Getting back on topic.... Those 11th/12th place recordings do require a lot of detective work to figure out. Here's what I have discovered: 1966 and 1967 DCA Championships only had ten competing corps. The '66 LPs also included an exhibition by the Marksmen; 1967 just had ten corps on the LPs. 1968 had no pro-quality recordings. 1969 was the first time the 11th/12th corps were brought back to perform standstills for the recordings. You can tell because both Royalaires and Westshoremen hornlines are facing front throughout the performance. Westshore had a ferw supporters cheering their corps on, while Guelph's recording has no audience response. In 1970, the Pittsburgh Rockets recording was taken from Stetson Richmond's recording of the corps from the March of Champions in Baltimore (July 25). Westshoremen were recorded at a standstill again; this time, it seems like supporters were discouraged from making noise until the end of the show. 1971's 11th/12th place corps (Commanders/Rockets) were recorded at the RCA Championship by Fleetwood a week before DCA, and Fleetwood put those same recordings on both the RCA and DCA LPs. DCA had 12 competing finalists in 1972, 1973 and 1974. The 1975 DCA LPs included prelim recordings for the 11th and 12th place corps. Unfortunately, prelim performances prior to 1979 were shortened shows (concert was omitted), so you don't get to hear the full programs of Spirit of 76 and Royalaires. 1976 saw a return to standstill recordings, apparently done in front of an audience. Beginning in 1977, the 11th/12th place corps began performing full field exhibitions at the start of finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) 1976 saw a return to standstill recordings, apparently done in front of an audience. Thanks Ken, as for 1976 the "audience" was non-playing members (NPM) of the corps. IIRC, Guelph was already playing when Westshore wandered over to be recorded and our NPM got in the with Guelphs NPM. When Guelph was done their NPM left so only Westshores were left. Listened to it recently and our audience has a high (IOW femine) tone to it with a few male "Whooos" her and there. Yeah, the idea (at least for Westshore) was to try to sound like a full crowd. Soon as we were done, the gates were open so the Finals crowd could be left in. If fact, we were getting yelled at to hurry up so the gates could be opened.. Edited August 11, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalieguy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Getting back on topic....Those 11th/12th place recordings do require a lot of detective work to figure out. Here's what I have discovered: 1966 and 1967 DCA Championships only had ten competing corps. The '66 LPs also included an exhibition by the Marksmen; 1967 just had ten corps on the LPs. 1968 had no pro-quality recordings. 1969 was the first time the 11th/12th corps were brought back to perform standstills for the recordings. You can tell because both Royalaires and Westshoremen hornlines are facing front throughout the performance. Westshore had a ferw supporters cheering their corps on, while Guelph's recording has no audience response. In 1970, the Pittsburgh Rockets recording was taken from Stetson Richmond's recording of the corps from the March of Champions in Baltimore (July 25). Westshoremen were recorded at a standstill again; this time, it seems like supporters were discouraged from making noise until the end of the show. 1971's 11th/12th place corps (Commanders/Rockets) were recorded at the RCA Championship by Fleetwood a week before DCA, and Fleetwood put those same recordings on both the RCA and DCA LPs. DCA had 12 competing finalists in 1972, 1973 and 1974. The 1975 DCA LPs included prelim recordings for the 11th and 12th place corps. Unfortunately, prelim performances prior to 1979 were shortened shows (concert was omitted), so you don't get to hear the full programs of Spirit of 76 and Royalaires. 1976 saw a return to standstill recordings, apparently done in front of an audience. Beginning in 1977, the 11th/12th place corps began performing full field exhibitions at the start of finals. I feel honored to have been in one of the first 2 Associate Corps to get recorded at Finals to "fill out the records".. Along with our friends from Chi-town, the Chicago Connection..what a great uniform! Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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