The Kids work hard, but I still don't like it.

[gimpy]

Good question, WOOHOO. I guess I'd like a little more diversity in music genres played, ie more rap, more country, more marches, more rock, more alternative, more pop, and so forth. There's lots of genres that some show designers must think they'll burn in hell if they incorporate more of these music genres into their shows.Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the dead for 50-300 years composers works... even some of the comtemporary obscure composers stuff that was dusted off from the bottom of the composer's bottom drawer. But there is SO much more interesting music out there that can be both appealing to the " folks " and also to the hoi poloi among us, as well as to the judges if done in a creative way, imo.

I'm with you. I've got a head full of stuff I'd love to hear a corps do, and probably never will. (jethro tull is one example, got lucky on that one!)

[Tekneek]

It really just doesn't seem logical to expect things to change in DCI by complaining about it on DCP, as this is just a place to vent. I would hope no one on here thinks that any of the things said on here have any impact on DCI administration.

Of course not. I expect my comments here to be part of the discussion. Nothing more. What part about it made you think it was a plea to DCI to make a change?

[BRASSO]

I would hope no one on here thinks that any of the things said on here have any impact on DCI administration.

No. As a matter of fact, we are not responsible for any of it.

[WOOHOO]

Way to be dismissive.

God, I apologized. What else do want from me?

[perc2100]

I don't think it's a problem with audience members at all, I think it's a problem with the music.

If you think of ANY other art form which incorporates music and visual, you find (if it's any good) that the music can stand alone just fine. A great ballet is obviously best enjoyed live and "complete", but it's perfectly enjoyable to pop in a CD and listen to the music alone.

I can think of several. Take music score. It is often composed to specifically compliment what's going on in any given scene. Most of the time the music is kind of disjointed, doesn't have a traditional structure, and doesn't really stand on it's own. Later on, if the movie is successful and has a good score, the music will be reworked in more of a "suite" form, or concert form in order to make things work for a different medium.

If you can't pop in a corps CD and enjoy the music, things have gone too far and it's not 50/50 at ALL; rather music has taken a backseat to the visual.

And I believe that's exactly what has happened with corps these days. Beginning with Garfield in the mid-80's, the ever increasing velocity requirements meant that there were less and less "standard" tunes that could be used, since they are generally "too slow". This has led to an increasingly frenetic style of music that is at best unusual, and oft inaccessible to people who enjoy "regular" music.

Here's the truth, if a corps has a visual program that enslaves the music, they should get impressive visual scores but get slammed in the music categories. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. Instead of judges judging corps vs. any other art form, they are judging corps vs itself only. And they've ruined things due to that tunnel vision. If, from the start, they'd judged music appropriately based on ALL music we know of instead of approving of strange bastardizations only to be found in drumcorpsworld, the corps and their designers would've had to find a happy medium between visual and audio. As it stands though, they are free to go as far as they want. In fact, they are REQUIRED to do so if they want to remain competitive.

Sad, but true.

See, again, you are wanting something different than what is being offered by most of the activity. Just about every show has awesome musical moments that can stand on its own (for some reason Cavalier's 06 comes to mind, with the Marsalis tune), and some moments where visual is the forefront (again, Cadets 83 comes to mind). That's just the nature of the beast. Corps were performing music as a focal point, and then marching drill as a secondary. Corps decided they wanted to be different, so they pushed the activity visually and made visual phrases that were at the forefront while the music accompanying the visual was secondary.

I HATE color correction in movies, and I hate the way that hack directors use it as a cheap/easy way to change the color/tint of a scene in order to convey certain moods/feeling. It's overused, and often not done very well. I yearn for days of more natural lighting, and only using color correction to enhance certain moods/scenes (think the use of stage lighting, or Scorcese's remake of "Cape Fear," since that's on cable a lot lately for a great use of natural lighting that uses color to paint/enhance mood). But if I go to my local cinema with the assumption that directors will revert back to trends from fifteen years ago, I'm being naive and irresponsible: that's not the modern trend, and no matter how much I might prefer other trends it's not the going to stop the modern trend from occurring more often than not.

The same applies to drum corps. If you think that somehow designers will all revert back to trends from over a decade ago as far as musical/visual design, you are wrong as that's not going to happen (at least not anytime in the immediate future) and it's foolish and naive to think otherwise.

[Diceman]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. When you said

I thought what you meant is that the most important aspect of a show is music and if the music can't stand alone you don't like a show. If you were instead implying that when revisiting shows after the season the current trends don't lend themselves to standalone CD's as they did ten-fifteen years ago, then I misinterpreted your meaning.

Yes, you did...

(Grin)

I never said I didn't like it; just implied that I wouldn't spend the $$ on the CD - nor would I necesssarily buy the DVD, as I don't usually have time to watch more than I do to listen...

(Watching on even a wide-screen High-Def TV is a pale comparison to sitting in the stadium.)

A good quality audio player beats TV every time, IMO...

I do think there is a problem if an audience is approaching a drum corps performance with different expectations than the current trends dictate: in modern drum corps the visual package is as important as the music (sometimes more, depending on the effect, like Cavaliers stretch drill in 06 or Cadets Z-pull in 83). If an audience member is not interested in the visual and merely only hoping to hear music that can stand on its own (even though it's clearly designed as part of an audio AND visual presentation), then that audience members is not understanding the current design trends and instead hoping to see an outdated mode of drum corps. The refusal to accept the modern design trend is a problem.

Not if you're trying to get the Customer to buy the Product...

You could make the absolute best Buggy Whips in the entire civilized world, but...

Now if you're saying you far more prefer to pop in a CD rather than a DVD (or VHS; I still have more drum corps on VHS than DVD), then I can understand that. I was that way for a LONG time when I spent a lot of time in my car commuting. Now-a-days, I would rather take some time to stream a drum corps show on Fan Network to relive a specific show or moment, and I haven't listened to a CD or mp3 or musical recording in quite a long time. Conversely, I've streamed a lot of VOD drum corps shows in the last, say, five years and the ONLY time I've busted out an audio-only recording was when I wanted to hear a warm-up, cadence, or "old" version of a show that was rewritten before Finals (I have a bunch of Cadets recordings from the 90's with differences ranging from the subtle, like changed battery parts, to the drastic, like pre-Officer Krumpke ending in 94).

Well, again I'm more mobile than some, and don't have the time (or frankly, the inclination) to watch a show online.

(Poor cousin, visually)

I prefer to take my corps with me!

(grin)

I grew up on LPs, 8-tracks and cassettes. I have always enjoyed listening more than watching. The sound of say, 1976 Blue Devils or 1980 Spirit or 1996 Madison - or 2000 SCV! - in headphones just can't be equaled by anything I've heard the past few years.

It's the charts, I guess...

Again, just One man's Opinion...

[WOOHOO]

No. I even said I am not sure I can blame the rules changes for it. It might just be that show designers are putting crap on the field, at least when it comes to my tastes. I suspect it is a combination, though.

What did I really say that was disparaging? I went pretty easy on it, and I was merely commenting on an existing thread (on page 6 of that, even!). I didn't tell them to be boring. I keep trying because I used to love drum corps so much. I keep giving them chances for that very reason. In many circles, that effort would be commended. Apparently, it is regarded with disdain here. I'm glad I don't actually need your approval to post here.

Is this the part where I say, "Good for you!" at? It wouldn't bother me if you did those things. Go express yourself!

I guess I thought that implied some sort of desire that saying something here would bring drum corps to to what you used to love

[HockeyDad]

God, I apologized. What else do want from me?

A couple good tix for Saturday.

[The Other Mike]

In my experience, diversity is the last thing a "legacy fan" wants. Most often when I read a post like the original one in this thread, the author has a specific show or style of show that he would like to see again. It is when something new is attempted that a corps gets blasted for being non-traditional. I think there is plenty of diversity in today's show, but if you close off your mind when listening then of course it's going to sound the same. Speaking for myself, I have a hard time believing that Phantom Regiment sounds anything like the Bluecoats, to pick just two corps.

You make some excellent points however, I feel most "old pharts" really miss the personality of different corps.

As far as diversity goes how about shows in 75 ? Madison, SCV, Troopers, 27th ?

What about 1980 ? SCV, Bridgemen, Spirit, and BD, are these not diverse ?

What about 1990 ? CAdets, Dutch Boy, BD, and SCV ?

I see each of these shows as being very different yet entertaining not just to the musically educated but to the average Joe who walked in off the street and I think for the most part, people not involved in the activity could easily see the difference in each corps.

Forget about top 12 for a second and think back to some of those "moments". Florida Wave - Fool on the Hill, Wave, the sail flags. Comodores and Mariners with the sea going themes. Muchachoes, All very different. Today it "seems" as if the difference between corps rests upon what gimmicks and props are used on the field.

I would just like to see drum corps appeal to MORE people rather than what seems to be a select few.

I hope that the pendulum finally does swing back to a more general appeal before it seperates from the clock and gets embedded in the wall.

[TooMello]

SIGH.............

What I miss most about drum & bugle corps ?

Once upon a time I could bring my administration to shows where they could actually understand why music programs were not only important in the schools, but FOR the school. It was a time when even the clueless could feel goosebumps and the energy produced on the field without needing a 4 hour briefing before viewing. I wonder how many people in the stands only attend because it's "THE" marching event to be seen at ?

Yes, I like and appreciate whats on the field today, However, not all school systems are the type that will support a BOA type band program. I would dare say in most cases the principal/administration wants a band that is more about public relations and support of the football team, not a fine arts program on a football field. They want something THEY can "feel" and cheer about. As DCI has moved to this higher level of artistic expression, I fear we have closed the door on support from some areas of education.

Drum Corps has become something wonderful to behold, but only for a select few. I love and appreciate high brow, but it's not going to help me sell music education to people who are not musically educated. Drum Corps USED to be a great tool for seling the average person. I have given up on bringing band parents and boosters to shows because theres little they can relate to.

While DCI has become the moving billboard for the instrument and uniform industry, it has risen so far above the average, musically uneducated persons ability to grasp and understand in one viewing that "for the most part" it does not help in the struggle we face to keep interest in many band programs.

Once upon a time ( 90's ) a principal could view most of the top 12 and at least have a grasp of what was being presented and a hunger to have a " band like THAT", and with his excitment came funding and approval for many things

I don't think theres an answer that will make anyone 100% happy,

I've made the decision to go it alone and enjoy what "I" get out of it for as long as I "get it".

I could care less about the key of instruments or what type of heads on the drums, I just wish there were more shows I could get the average person to enjoy so that we would have larger support. I miss bringing new people to shows and having them GUSH excitement for weeks after.

Some may say it's not DCI's job to educate the masses, I say DCI is missing the boat to growth and financial future by not appealing to a wider audiance.

How do we make that happen ?

On this thought: People don't care what the time signature is as long as they can still dance.