The 150 member increase.

[Buick]

But I'll tell you what. I HAVE done my homework on the 2009 numbers. I promise you, there were only TWO corps at 80 horns in 09. Crown and Blue Stars. Everyone else was in the 70s except Troopers. Troopers had 66. I know this for a fact. I counted all the finalist hornlines TWICE from the high cam last night. I may have a few stats to retract on my 2010 numbers. When my DVDs come in, I'll know for sure. But I KNOW I am right on my 2009 stats. I know FOR a fact!

You should triple check, because Phantom definitely marched 80 brass in 2009. Check the block near the end of the show, A full 8x10 block.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Hansbari

[txpride]

You should triple check, because Phantom definitely marched 80 brass in 2009. Check the block near the end of the show, A full 8x10 block.

You know what, you are right. I forgot that I did count 80 with Phantom in 09. Stand corrected. I'm right about the rest though.

[SkyRyder_FMM]

I HAVE checked the facts (and have provided them). I'm no longer arguing Boston. I've already included them in the list of the 5 or so corps that are making it all the way to 150. My point is that cases like BAC is the exception. NOT the norm.

I'll tell you what, we might be edging closer to more corps making it (or coming closer) to 150. Though I still don't think there are enough corps out there with that many to make it fair to the rest.

But I'll tell you what. I HAVE done my homework on the 2009 numbers. I promise you, there were only TWO corps at 80 horns in 09. Crown and Blue Stars. Everyone else was in the 70s except Troopers. Troopers had 66. I know this for a fact. I counted all the finalist hornlines TWICE from the high cam last night. I may have a few stats to retract on my 2010 numbers. When my DVDs come in, I'll know for sure. But I KNOW I am right on my 2009 stats. I know FOR a fact!

I do not believe you have done your homework. Blue Stars did not have 80 brass in 2009. They marched 72. I believe Cavies marched 80 in 2009.

The point you are attempting to make is not really coming through. There are only 150 spots, and how they fill those spots is dependent on a number of factors. Because Blue Devils did not march 80 brass does not mean they cannot. They chose to have more guard on the field. Could they chose differently and still fill their corps? I'm positive they could.

[hank13579]

Count them yourself: Bluecoats 2009

[mgarside83]

The point you are attempting to make is not really coming through. There are only 150 spots, and how they fill those spots is dependent on a number of factors. Because Blue Devils did not march 80 brass does not mean they cannot. They chose to have more guard on the field. Could they chose differently and still fill their corps? I'm positive they could.

Sure BD could march 80 brass. They could fill their corps if the size limit was 250 too. That's not the point. The point is, most drum corps cannot fill their corps. Only a handful can. The bigger we make the size limits, the more these handful can separate themselves. Today, 150 brass players that are marching Cadets, BD, Cavies, Bluecoats and the other g7's would have been marching for Gmen, Blueknights, Troopers, Academy, Pioneer, Crossmen, and all the other World Class corps, not to mention all the open class corps. IF the talent is more dispersed the more healthy and competitive the activity would be. What you are supporting is a DCI with 7 or 8 super corps and letting every other corps wither and die. That's not the DCI I want to see. I would much rather have a DCI that had some competitive excitement.

But hey, let's just keep supporting all the advantages these super corps keep giving themselves.

[txpride]

I do not believe you have done your homework. Blue Stars did not have 80 brass in 2009. They marched 72. I believe Cavies marched 80 in 2009.

The point you are attempting to make is not really coming through. There are only 150 spots, and how they fill those spots is dependent on a number of factors. Because Blue Devils did not march 80 brass does not mean they cannot. They chose to have more guard on the field. Could they chose differently and still fill their corps? I'm positive they could.

Then I'll ask again...how many guard did they have? BD actually did have close to 80. 76 I think? How about the corps with 72 or less? Did they have 60 guard? How do they get to 150? Think 72 brass, 28 percussion, 36 guard and 2 DM... And that equils??? Your answer is the average size of today's drum corps.

[cage]

See, this is where I disagree. During the 128 years. At least 11 of your top 12 corps always had 128. It wasn't 5 corps with the full 128 and the rest with 110. Almost everyone had 128.

Same with the 135 years. Now with the 150, it's completely different. So no, I don't agree. There have not always been this many corps not making it to the max number.

And the whole thing with a "few more guard". I already addressed that. For a corps with 72 (or less) horns and an average sized percussion (which is the case for most right now), a corps would have to be marching 60 guard (close to that number). Do you see any corpsd out there with that many in the guard? I don't. I see what you are saying. I just don't think what you are saying is really the case.

Really to take your argument all the way is they should find out who has the least amount of members and everyone should have to cut back to that. That is the only "fair" way to make the corps "equal" In the 128 days there were many corps who had well under 128. I don't know, nor am I going to count in all of my video, but If they all weren't at 128 is that fair?

As far as numbers we are looking at 8-10 snare, 4-5 tenors, 5 bass drums, 12-14 in the pit, and 32-40 color guard. If we take the upper end of all of those; as some corps do, there is not room for 80 brass. I am not sure if you are taking into consideration the size of the pits. I think the biggest difference the membership changes have made is the guards have grown with many more male members. Up until what, 8 or 9 years ago only a couple had male lines in their guard.

[mgarside83]

Measuring the health of the entire activity based on how well 8 corps can recruit is ludicrous. Post a picture of Pioneer's brass, or Mandarins brass line numbers. Then tell me there isn't a problem with 150.

[SkyRyder_FMM]

Then I'll ask again...how many guard did they have? BD actually did have close to 80. 76 I think? How about the corps with 72 or less? Did they have 60 guard? How do they get to 150? Think 72 brass, 28 percussion, 36 guard and 2 DM... And that equils??? Your answer is the average size of today's drum corps.

It's more like 72 brass, 30 percussion (some 32), 40 guard (38 to 42), and 2 (or 3) DM. More like 144.

Adding 8 to horn line doesn't make 20 additional spots available for guard (to get to the 60 spots you keep referencing). That's just hyperbole.

There have been posts made year after year, showing actual research done with members and prospects. They show that when someone does not make the corps they want to march with, they generally do not go to another corps to march. So your hypothesis that reducing the size of a corps will cause more members to trickle down to the lower placing corps and Open Class corps is not valid.

[Bruckner8]

I HAVE checked the facts (and have provided them). I'm no longer arguing Boston. I've already included them in the list of the 5 or so corps that are making it all the way to 150. My point is that cases like BAC is the exception. NOT the norm.

I'll tell you what, we might be edging closer to more corps making it (or coming closer) to 150. Though I still don't think there are enough corps out there with that many to make it fair to the rest.

But I'll tell you what. I HAVE done my homework on the 2009 numbers. I promise you, there were only TWO corps at 80 horns in 09. Crown and Blue Stars. Everyone else was in the 70s except Troopers. Troopers had 66. I know this for a fact. I counted all the finalist hornlines TWICE from the high cam last night. I may have a few stats to retract on my 2010 numbers. When my DVDs come in, I'll know for sure. But I KNOW I am right on my 2009 stats. I know FOR a fact!

...and Bluecoats and Cavies.

Again, here is what I firmly believe the top 12 breakdown from 2010 (which wasn't much different from 2009), in TRP/MEL/BAR-EUP/TBA)

Madison 84 (24/16/24/20) [dunno about 2009]

Cavies 80 (24/16/24/16) [same in 2009]

Bluecoats 80 (24/16/24/16) [same in 2009]

Crown 80 (24/16/24/16) [same in 2009]

Blue Stars 80 (24/16/24/16) [same in 2009]

Boston 80 (24/16/24/16) [same in 2009]

BD 76 (24/16/24/12) [same in 2009]

Cadets 76 (24/14/24/14) [same in 2009]

Phantom 76 (24/16/24/12) [80 in 2009, 24/16/24/16]

SCV 76 (24/16/24/12) [same in 2009]

Blue Knights, and Glassmen, I never saw once. In 2009, I'm pretty sure BK had 76. AND I'M CERTAIN THEY ALL HAD 150.

Those with smaller (76 is small?) hornlines, choose to put their 150 elsewhere.

I'm still lost as to why you're fighting this. Even if a corps marched a hole or two at finals, it had NOTHING to do with finding enough qualified players...it had to do with finding enough qualified players to FILL A HOLE QUICKLY, FOR FINALS. Sheesh.

People have posted here "600 members auditioned for [top corps]." OK, so where are all of those 450 cuts going, PER CORPS? Some overlap (a kid gets cut from two Top 6 corps). Some march elsewhere. MOST DO NOT MARCH AT ALL.

You can't blame the corps for kids who decide to NOT march. Those same kids would decide to NOT march even if the limit were 100 per corps. People want to be part of an exclusive club, period.

Let's turn it around. If the pool WERE ACTUALLY SHRINKING (as I think you're claiming, and thus lamenting the 150 number), then the number would have to follow, or corps the caliber of Cadets would not be able to find qualified people.

There are many more societal reasons as to why the pool might be shrinking. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 150, 135, 128, or whatever. It has nothing to do with the current crop of EXCELLENT drum corps!! Somehow, the list of EXCELLENT drum corps is GROWING! The G7 might have to become the G8 or the G9 or the G10...isn't that AWESOME? Wouldn't it be great if all of the lower WC corps could somehow figure out how to make those 2500+ cuts come to their camps? WHY R U BLAMING THE 150, or the excellent corps?