Stu Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) So which is more educational for the members? Learning how to compensate by changing how you play a certain passage or having someone else turn a knob to do it for you? Main reason why I don't like the idea of using amps this way. Takes away form the educational and competative areas (we got a better score cuz we controlled the amped sound better). So you are stating that there would be no educational value whatsoever for a 20 year-old music production student to gain real-life touring and show experience using a complex sound board matrix? Really? You do realize that there are two sides here concerning electronic sound: (the performance side of playing the keyboards/synths/electric instruments, and the production side of various microphones, wires, channels, mix, channel balance, etc...). No educational value in that production side at all? Again really? Edited July 8, 2012 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) You're right - I do object to electronics - the sound board being just one reason. Composer Jerry Goldsmith was an advocate of live ensembles performing his music while recording film tracks. He was once asked what he thought of synthesizers and other electronic instruments. His response was that a synthesizer, or an electric keyboard, or a Hammond Organ, is just another musical instrument nothing more and nothing less; and that as long as they were used to generate sounds or music which could not be accomplished with an acoustical instrument he had no problems with using them in his orchestrations. But - if we're stuck with them... Funny; many traditional Symphony Orchestra Musicologists hate, and now feel stuck with, the Saxophone. Just sayin... Edited July 8, 2012 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Composer Jerry Goldsmith was an advocate of live ensembles performing his music while recording film tracks. He was once asked what he thought of synthesizers and other electronic instruments. His response was that a synthesizer, or an electric keyboard, or a Hammond Organ, is just another musical instrument nothing more and nothing less; and that as long as they were used to generate sounds or music which could not be accomplished with an acoustical instrument he had no problems with using them in his orchestrations. Funny; many traditional Symphony Orchestra Musicologists hate, and now feel stuck with, the Saxophone. Just sayin... Again we digress from a discussion on adjudication to a pro/con match on synths. You can dismiss it all as backward thinking musical taste if you wish. The problem for drum corps is that if enough people feel the way I do, the activity will suffer. This year seems to have a lot of overdone electronics, and in all honesty, from what I've seen on FN I'm becoming less and less upset that I won't be making it to Allentown this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkbugler Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 There is a simple fix in DCI: 149 twenty-one years of age or under youth performers on the field and 1 twenty-one years of age or under youth dedicated to running the sound board from wherever in the stadium. That way the balance and blend (which is controlled live and does effect the sound production) is controlled by a *youth member*. And do not give me that, "It is too complicated, or that the youth have to perform on the field, stuff". There are plenty of undergrad music production students who would jump at gaining the experience of controling a sound board for live concerts on tour all around the nation. While not a fan of electronics I realize that they are here to stay. And as stated above there should be no shortage of music production students who would love to have this experience on their resume. Another angle, there are lots of potential members who are unable to march physically. What an awesome experience opportunity for them assuming they have or are able to pick up the sound engineering skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Again we digress from a discussion on adjudication to a pro/con match on synths. You can dismiss it all as backward thinking musical taste if you wish. The problem for drum corps is that if enough people feel the way I do, the activity will suffer. This year seems to have a lot of overdone electronics, and in all honesty, from what I've seen on FN I'm becoming less and less upset that I won't be making it to Allentown this year. And the positive for drum corps is that if electronic instruments happen to bring in a newer version of performer and fan interest the drum corps activity will prosper in the future. The one axiom I have found to be true is that things are always in a fluctuation of change; nothing is stagnate (ie NASCAR no longer uses "stock" cars and they are always tinkering with rules like restrictor plates and aerodynamics, NFL now has the instant replay challenge, NBA added the three-point shot, all of which irritates those who want it the way it was back when). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 While not a fan of electronics I realize that they are here to stay. And as stated above there should be no shortage of music production students who would love to have this experience on their resume. Another angle, there are lots of potential members who are unable to march physically. What an awesome experience opportunity for them assuming they have or are able to pick up the sound engineering skills. Shazam!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 And the positive for drum corps is that if electronic instruments happen to bring in a newer version of performer and fan interest the drum corps activity will prosper in the future. The one axiom I have found to be true is that things are always in a fluctuation of change; nothing is stagnate (ie NASCAR no longer uses "stock" cars and they are always tinkering with rules like restrictor plates and aerodynamics, NFL now has the instant replay challenge, NBA added the three-point shot, all of which irritates those who want it the way it was back when). While there is no empirical evidence to assert electronics have drawn new fans or driven away old ones, there seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting that legacy fans are getting turned off by these changes. Is there even any anecdotal evidence suggesting kids are joining and staying purely *because* of electronics? None that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 While there is no empirical evidence to assert electronics have drawn new fans or driven away old ones, there seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting that legacy fans are getting turned off by these changes. Is there even any anecdotal evidence suggesting kids are joining and staying purely *because* of electronics? None that I know of. Notice how you used the words "purely because of electronics" when referring to new kids being drawn in, but you failed to use the words "purely because of electronics" when referring to potential legacy fans leaving. Neither situation is "purely because of electronics"; and this inconsistency of argument weakens your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Notice how you used the words "purely because of electronics" when referring to new kids being drawn in, but you failed to use the words "purely because of electronics" when referring to potential legacy fans leaving. Neither situation is "purely because of electronics"; and this inconsistency of argument weakens your position. So - no anecdotal evidence on your point, right? if there had been you would have presented it rather than attack my wording.... Look - I don't want this to devolve into yet another "hate 'em/love 'em" arguement. God knows we've had enough of those already and like democrats and republicans, nobody is going to change the other's mind anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Running a sound board is just nothing more than playing with an ipad? Try telling that to professional sound engineers!!! Also, who said that the youth member running the board has to pay $3k? Not me. Are there various levels of dues already in place within many corps? Yes. Are membership dues "required" by DCI? Nope. So, there are ways to allow a youth 21 or under to be a part of the organization as a "member", accomplishing the duties of a sound engineer, by having them pay lower-dues; and again I am sure that there are many music production students out there who would jump at the chance to run a complex sound board system live on tour. so, you think a corps is going to take a kid on tour all summer, and because he doesn't play an instrument, he's going to get half off tour fees? Really?? I guess you dont realize what it costs to feed, house and transport these kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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