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You should go back and read some of your posts...you obviously do not like Mr. Lentz and Onyx, you've made it quite clear through personal attacks and comments. I'm done with this conversation, it is not helping the activity one bit. as you say...best wishes.

:doh:

Your rhetoric is getting so old...

Since you obviously didn't take the time to read my comments, I will post again.

What are YOU adding to the productive conversation?

My contribution to this productive discussion...

As I have stated before, my concerns do not deal with the show itself. Onyx, along with all other colorguards at WGI have the creative freedom to produce whatever they wish.

There are things I appreciate about the show; how the designers manipulate space, the ability of the strength of the performers regarding improvisation (and this is NOT easy). References to matters of art; such as clear plastic symbolizing transparency (or non-transparency) and the decisions artists make concerning those. The end of the show...the work referencing the bluebird by Charles Bukowski; a very powerful poem with a strong subject matter.

My concerns are and always have been how this show relates to our current adjudication system. The sheets, broken down in a basic kind of way are "what", and "how". What is being displayed (the composition or content) and "how" it is being displayed. In the upstairs captions, GE and Ensemble, I think Onyx is actually quite strong...and deserves a lot of credit for how the show is constructed. Downstairs, in the Individual Analysis captions, I personally blame the judges for giving way too much credit.

Our activity is still (like it or not) adjudicated as colorguard. Colorguard, much like drum corps, is and always has been, in large part, about cleanliness, clarity, and how well unison efforts are performed by all performers in view. It's the nature of what we do...and comes from the history and evolution of colorguard/drum corps.

I'm going to give you three examples of moments in Onyx's show that I think display significant weakness in the movement and equipment captions. NO, I do not sit and study this video (these are the moments that 'bugged' me when I saw the show)...and YES, every group, even the world champions have these problems every year. But, if/when I sit and watch Onyx, these moments occur many many times; it's just that many folks can't (or choose not) to see because of the chaotic nature of the show, therefore, I feel the cleanliness and achievement of choreographed parts (what EVERYONE is adjudicated on) were mostly disregarded. I am looking at the show from the perspective of an instructor/tech and from an adjudication point of view:

1.) At the :30 point on the prelims performance on fan network...if you watch the first ensemble movement statement, timing is extremely poor, positions of bodies are all different from performer to performer; some arms are together, some are apart, some upper bodies are upright, some are leaning forward in a lunge position. Some performers actually have their feet turned in, while some are turned out. I personally don't feel most would consider this movement part difficult at all...its pretty basic actually (in my opinion), and there are a few counts between each 'move', so it is easy to sample how different many people look on the floor in each position; and this IS supposed to be a unison part.

2.) Sample the technique of the performer running across the '50' at 1:13 when he does what appears to be a sauté; a very basic dance move utilized by every colorguard at WGI. The judges know moves such as sautés, and reference and comment about the execution and technique of these on their 'tapes'. I would consider this VERY poorly achieved; the muscular control of this performer looks very weak; and every time I watched the show, he looked like he did not have control of his body on the efforts he was performing. These can be found all throughout the show with many of the performers...and the adjudicators factually react negatively towards performers that look like this in all other shows. If you do not understand what I am saying, find the recorded comments of any movement judge from any winterguard competition, and listen to it.

3.) From an equipment point of view, if you watch the flag entrance at 1:18, these performers enter in a 'canon'...but if you look closely, they are not performing the part (which is the same, just at different times) the same at all. Hands are in different positions on the pole, different planes are being explored, and then, when we reach an ensemble statement, the same issues apply AND there are significant timing issues...it's not clean. Also check out the position of the leg on the catch of the 45 toss...different on each and every performer. BUT, the untrained eye would have a hard time noting this because they are all facing different directions with a alot of 'chaos' occurring around the choreographed part. Again...this can be found constantly throughout the show.

To reiterate, I do not have an issue with Onyx's choices...I have an issue that they are receiving a very high level of credit for things that our sheets are based on (particularly the Ind. Analysis captions). To me, this is an adjudication issue for the judging community; which is why I have been very outspoken about how I feel this affects the activity. My personal problem with Mike Lentz deals with how rude he was when I brought up these concerns...off topic.

I know some of on this forum will not understand this because they do not know (or take the time to study) our sheets or adjudication system, but think of it in marching band or drum corps terms...we still judge performer's postures, marching technique, cleanliness of playing, etc.

I wonder: how might folks react if a top 12 drum corps came out with performers facing different directions, playing different parts, marching different tempos, and mostly all with different technique for an entire show? It would certainly be an interesting experiment...one I am not opposed to seeing...and seeing how it affects a drum corps audience.

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You should go back and read some of your posts...you obviously do not like Mr. Lentz and Onyx, you've made it quite clear through personal attacks and comments. I'm done with this conversation, it is not helping the activity one bit. as you say...best wishes.

Although I agree that previously, his comments were quite rude, we kinda started on a new slate a couple pages ago and since then riseup has added productively to the conversation. So lets continue...

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If people want a forum with only positive comments, compliments, and a place where only 'good' discussion is allowed, I suggest they start a new forum. That's not how any activity gets better, evolves, or grows. Opinions, conversation (with all viewpoints) and personal conviction should be permitted AND encouraged in any artistic activity that is adjudicated.

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@RiseUp, Very very well said. I saw a few errors, and I'm about as far from a trained eye as you could get! However, I still enjoyed the show and I feel like some are over-reacting like they received 1st place. The judges awarded them the Silver, and while there may have been other groups that might've been better (I liked Braddock and Sac better personally), this is like BD level hate in drum corps.

That said, I hope they come out next year with a show like '09.

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@RiseUp, Very very well said. I saw a few errors, and I'm about as far from a trained eye as you could get! However, I still enjoyed the show and I feel like some are over-reacting like they received 1st place. The judges awarded them the Silver, and while there may have been other groups that might've been better (I liked Braddock and Sac better personally), this is like BD level hate in drum corps.

That said, I hope they come out next year with a show like '09.

I personally and politely disagree. While I don't typically 'love' the Blue Devils' productions, I can hardly ever argue that they aren't great at the activity/art they competing in; drum corps (marching, spinning, and playing).

I think (along with many others I have spoken with) think this situation is different.

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