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Which company makes the best horns for each section?


Stradbrother

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I was never a brass player, but I've known quite a few, and Kanstul is usually regarded as the "Cadillac". Why settle for ground beef and beer when you can have prime rib flipped medium rare and washed down with a glass of the finest vintage?

Unless you were sponsored by Omaha steaks and a Napa Valley Winery, you'd go broke within the year. :tongue:

Kanstul just can't afford the sponsorships that the bigger players are giving to top-tier corps.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I like Dynasty tubas, the M875 is a good horn. I own one, and have corrected what I believe are a few "defects," the stock horn sat too far forward, like the K90, and also seemed to ply flat, so I had 2 inches removed from the leadpipe, solved both problems. Also had the thumb ring moved from the 1st valve to the leadpipe so its actually useful. Even without those changes, it was still the nicest combination of hold, power, and tone.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Got a chance to play on a SB King Euph hybrid this summer... Wow, what a horn.

About 2 lbs lighter than older King Euphs, but feels great to hold. Loud, and very warm tone- the only marching horn I would be willing to play regularly outside of Drum Corps.

Valves were a little weird- A couple of BD kids told me they were still prototype valves on the horns they had for this season- felt too small for the rest of the horn.

Like most Euphs, Vision is limited by width of the bell.

Overall my favorite marching horn I've ever played.

Played a Yamaha bari all summer- great horn, large bore lets you really push some air through it, despite being a bari.

Finish was thin- a lot of exposed brass by august.

Hope yamaha updates their low brass soon... havent changed since 2000

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Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, Dynasty no longer builds the M380/Super Mag, 4 valve, GG Contra.

My best area of expertise is with low brass, so I'll start there! I'm only going to list models I've played.

Tuba/Contra:

Dynasty - I played an M845 Bb convertible tuba in high school. About the size of an Ultratone valve rotor Contra, weighed about the same. Tiny bore, and was designed to be right shoulder marched. Wound up finding out Dynasty makes special order left-shoulder brackets and tried those only to have to bury my head half way into the horn to play it... They were pretty awful, but then again we didn't have much money at my school to repair them, so most of the bells were flattened, bottom bows caved in, and leadpipes squished since the concert leadpipe was not removable for marching. I played a Dynasty II G contra without much issue. The horn was balanced center, which made for a bit of an arm workout for this weakling... I graduated to a mid-90s era M378 3 valve G contra. I love the balance on this horn. It is balanced with most of the weight in the back, so it takes a lot of the workload off the arms and puts it on the back instead. Makes for super easy horn pops. However, this horn has awful low range (ie. concert pitch D below the bass clef and lower) that does not speak quickly or loudly. I've even resorted to playing a smaller mouthpiece to reduce the amount of air I put though this horn. I started with my CC tuba mouthpiece, which is basically a bathtub, and discovered I while I could play loud all day on my tuba with that mouthpiece, the contra would just not respond. I question whether it has to do with the numerous dents and constantly breaking braces...

I might have a chance to try a Super Mag in Rochester during DCA finals, so if I find I like the Super Mag, I'm going to have to seriously find one and trade up! The more valves the better!

King - I've only played one King contra, and it was for about 15 minutes. That would be the K-90. Massively amazing horn with a low range like none other, even with only two valves. No problem popping out the pedal G two octaves below the bass clef. And this horn was in awful condition too! Broken braces, dents everywhere. I wouldn't mind trying the new Bb contra based on the K-90. I'm sure it won't be the same though.

Olds/Kanstul - I'm grouping them together for simplicity's sake. The Ultratone is basically the only worthwhile valve/rotor contra that was built. Plays just fine. The Kanstul contras are a different beast. I've only played on one, and it was the standard contra. It has an S-shaped leadpipe as opposed to the standard U pipe I've seen on other horns. I don't know if this horn was a project horn cobbled together or if it's an early Kanstul design. I like the response across the range of the horn, but it sits far too forward for me. I feel like I'm constantly lifting the horn to keep it at playing position. The valves are also way out in front of me.

Yamaha - I played a 201 for a short time in high school. It was a convertible tuba, but I never used it on the marching field. There was no resistance in the low register. The notes just came out with no problem. I did not like the middle and upper registers though. They felt stuffy and thin. If I put too much air in, volume did not increase, rather I felt a loss of control on pitch. The horn was bought brand new and had valve problems from the day I took it out of the plastic bag. No matter how much oil you put in, or how many times you cleaned out the valves, they still stuck and scraped. I was totally disappointed in the quality of this horn.

Baritones:

Dynasty/Getzen - I am lumping these two together against all that is holy seeing as though these two are never to be lumped together! Anyway, in high school I played on the Getzen Bb marching baritone that was based on the Dynasty II baritone design. It wasn't a bad horn, aside from the fact it always blew sharp, no matter what. The tuning slide was pulled all the way out for most playing to be in tune. I have not played on a newer design Dynasty G baritone, or any other new design Bb baritones. I have played on a G Dynasty Euphonium, and I was impressed with the sound of it. Granted it's a heavy sucker, so horn angle is not so easy. I am impressed by the Getzen Titleist valve/rotor baritone. I play on one regularly and find it to be really easy to play. Decent tone, easy to tune!

Ludwig - Yes, I am mentioning Ludwig in baritones because I have one that I have used in TubaChristmases. This horn is a Ludwig Classic G-D-F# valve/rotor "bass baritone." This is back when regular baritones had a soprano bore and wrap. This horn has a .562" bore, compared to the .560" in the "newer" Getzen valve/rotor I own. If it weren't for the shortcomings in having the D and F# combinations, this would be an awesome horn. The F# slide is a little strange though. It is slightly longer than the F# slide on my Getzen, so Ludwig must have compensated for not having a tunable D piston with a flat F# when playing with both valve and rotor.

Alto/mellophone:

Getzen - I've played a number of Getzen F mellophones both in high school and college. One word: consistency. And not in a good way. Most damage occurs to the bell. When those horns are repaired from major bell work, something gets screwed up with the horn and then the tuning slide can never come out again. The wrap of the tuning slide versus the bell is done with pinpoint accuracy in the factory, so there's just enough room to take the tuning slide out. But if you move the bell or leadpipe just a little during repairs, the tuning slide is forever held prisoner by the bell. You can tune, just not remove. Sadly, Getzen also felt that wrapping the main tuning slide around the first valve slide is a great idea. So, when the main slide becomes trapped, so does the first valve slide. I've seen it happen on countless Getzen horns. As far as playing, they're not bad.

King - I have played on both the King 1120 and the 1121. No significant differences between the two. However, each model is much heavier than the Getzen model. I noticed the Kings were much more open than the Getzens. Decent horns all around, and no stupid wrap designs. There is a unique 3rd valve wrap to facilitate a closer bell to make the horn slightly more compact. The 1120s did not have this so they are ever so slightly longer.

Kanstul - I have a Kanstul G alto bugle, which is the same thing as their mellophone bugle just with a flugelhorn bell. As such it's pretty much two horns in one depending on the type of mouthpiece you select. A trumpet mouthpiece gives you a brighter tone, while a or mellophone mouthpiece gives a much rounder tone. This horn has seen much better days, and even with loose parts and a rebuilt/possibly home built tuning slide, it still plays wonderfully.

Soprano/Trumpet: Not my best instrument...

Kanstul - Plays great, very open G sopranos.

Dynasty - I have a Dynasty II soprano that looks like it was a custom order. It uses the current Dynasty three valve 1st and 2nd valve pistons. The first valve cap has been drilled out in the center because the valve stem would rub otherwise. It has a standard trumpet finger hook as opposed to the adjustable finger ring as well as Amado water keys, and the bell also has the current production Dynasty logo. All of the other Dynasty II sopranos I've seen use the DEG Dynasty logo with the circles. As a matter of fact my 3 valve contra from the 90s still has this logo. I don't know if this was a factory demo horn or what, but it plays amazingly well. I am a fairly poor high brass player and this horn makes me sound good!

Olds - The Ultratone soprano is a fantastic horn. I wish mine was in better shape. There are blobs of solder all over the inside of the leadpipe, and until I get those out, we'll never know how this junkyard rescue will sound. Currently it is a combination of two Ultratones both destined for the scrapper. Now one is just sitting around as parts.

Getzen - I have a Getzen G-D soprano that came with an F slide, and also fits my orphaned F# slide. This horn is in what I would consider mint condition. No plating wear, a few scratches, probably from buffing, and original case in minty condition. The most usable tuning slide, in my opinion, for a G-D horn, is the F slide. In the higher register, both the D and F slides together create faux 1-2 and 2 combinations for some of the peskier, hard to reach notes on a G-D horn with F# slide. Also, worth mentioning would be Getzen Capri Bb trumpets. Not the best horns, but get the job done for marching ensembles. Lightweight, and very rugged. I have seen Capris in regular use with a marching band that were purchased 30 years prior. Not the best looking. Rebuilt a few times, but got the job done!

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Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, Dynasty no longer builds the M380/Super Mag, 4 valve, GG Contra.

I called Dynasty a few months ago and asked if they still sold the 4V SuperMag, as it isn't listed on their website. They'll still sell it, but you won't want to buy it new at MSRP...they told me it lists for $17,500. That's what my car costs new.

I'm glad I got mine when everyone was transitioning away from G - picked up one of Madison's 4V horns for $1000. My buddy just got one a year or so ago when CorpsVets switched to Bb - turns out they got theirs from Madison at the same time, so our 2 horns are pretty well matched.

BTW - I agree completely on your contra evaluations.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I called Dynasty a few months ago and asked if they still sold the 4V SuperMag, as it isn't listed on their website. They'll still sell it, but you won't want to buy it new at MSRP...they told me it lists for $17,500. That's what my car costs new.

I'm glad I got mine when everyone was transitioning away from G - picked up one of Madison's 4V horns for $1000. My buddy just got one a year or so ago when CorpsVets switched to Bb - turns out they got theirs from Madison at the same time, so our 2 horns are pretty well matched.

BTW - I agree completely on your contra evaluations.

$17,500 MSRP for a G Contra!? I could buy two Kanstul Contra Grandes for that much... hell I could probably have fourth valves put on them too!

I did have the opportunity to play a 4 valve SuperMag at DCA Finals this year. All I can say is: Wow! What a night and day difference between their three valve standard and 4 valve SuperMag. I could play anything and everything, and then some on the SuperMag. Problems I have with lip slurs and "not pushing enough air" when going from open to 1-3 or 1-2-3 combos in the low register were all gone on the SuperMag. I knew I wasn't that bad of a player!

Also, I finally found a Kanstul converted 3 valve King K-90. I was somewhat disappointed actually. It wasn't the same as the original K-90. It still had plenty of sound and was quite open, but it, well, just wasn't the same. Probably because of the smaller bore. Apparently only the smaller Kanstul contra valve section fits because the contra grande requires more open area for the slides, and the King wrap doesn't let the grande valves fit!

Edited by Brad T.
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  • 4 weeks later...

For G contras I absolutely loved my Kanstul Contra Grande. Spartans had the 3 valve config. Very easy to hold, and a wonderful low end. A little difficult up top, but that just made it interesting. I wanted to keep mine after agin out as the corps went Bb following 2007. Alas I could not get my hands on it. I marched the same horn for two years, and really had a chance to dial it in. I've never had a horn in drum corps that I loved more than that one. With a helleberg mouthpiece they're very forgiving.

I have a King K-90 that I bought in 2008 for 500 bucks. A little dented up, but plays like the legend it is. Gorgeous low end, and so effortless to play loudly with quality. Balance isn't what the Kanstul was, but is doable for me. I'm still young :thumbup: I also play it with a helleberg, and while I need to get some more two valve literature I have a lot of fun. It's my only 'tuba' like instrument for now so I have nothing else to keep my chops up.

I also have a piston/rotor euph from Dynasty. It's fun to tool around on. Uses a Euro shank mouthpiece. It can be played with a nice dark tone but still gets crass if I open it up. I can make the bell shake like a leaf in a stiff breeze lol. Lots of fun at Tuba Christmas :ph34r:

I marched dynasty horns otherwise for the rest of my years. I hated them. The bari's just didn't feel right to me. I played on a schilke 51D so I bet it was just a matter of too large a mouthpiece. They felt stuffy, and never really sang the way I wanted them to like a King bari.

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$17,500 MSRP for a G Contra!? I could buy two Kanstul Contra Grandes for that much... hell I could probably have fourth valves put on them too!

I did have the opportunity to play a 4 valve SuperMag at DCA Finals this year. All I can say is: Wow! What a night and day difference between their three valve standard and 4 valve SuperMag. I could play anything and everything, and then some on the SuperMag. Problems I have with lip slurs and "not pushing enough air" when going from open to 1-3 or 1-2-3 combos in the low register were all gone on the SuperMag. I knew I wasn't that bad of a player!

Also, I finally found a Kanstul converted 3 valve King K-90. I was somewhat disappointed actually. It wasn't the same as the original K-90. It still had plenty of sound and was quite open, but it, well, just wasn't the same. Probably because of the smaller bore. Apparently only the smaller Kanstul contra valve section fits because the contra grande requires more open area for the slides, and the King wrap doesn't let the grande valves fit!

Was it the person in the Freelancers? I spoke to him at I&E and got to play the horn extensively as well. According to the guy, the K-90 needed a valve job because prior owner had the wrong 2nd valve in it (Don't know how that happens?!?), plus the front tubing coming into the valve was falling apart, which was a common K-90 problem. Could not locate a replacement valve so he had Kanstul convert the horn. He said the 3 valve conversion kit was initially for the Olds Ultratone. It was used because it fit within the K-90 better than the Grande configuration, it allowed for the traditional hand over valve/lead pipe configuration rather than the forward wrap around loop lead pipes found on current marching tubas (except for system blues) and time/cost ($1,400) was of the essence. I am a long time Olds Ultratone player and found the smaller bore to be no problem in the tonal quality and sound output. I guess it is what you are used to playing. But it is a fantastic conversion for the K-90. Beats paying $6,000 + for a G Contra.

Edited by corbomite1512.2
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As far as tubas/contras go:

Olds V/R Contra - The first contra I ever marched with. I'm a big boy, so this felt like a toy to me. It's light weight, but only because of it's size. It didn't play "bad" per se, but I often felt like I was about to blow it to pieces and it got pitchy when I toed that line. Understandable though - it's twice my age.

King K90 - Probably one of the best contras I've ever piloted. It blows freely and speaks so beautifully. It's a somewhat cumbersome horn, but then again - I'm a big boy. I've got no problem throwing it around. It's solid all the way 'round.

Kanstul Contra Grande - I played the standard 3 valve configuration. This horn had a wonderful low end. It blows very freely as well. In many ways, it felt very similar to the K90, though I give it the additional edge for having a well designed 3V package.

Yamaha Convertible Tuba - I played this 3V horn as a G shoulder horn. It was compact and solidly built, but relatively small. The low end didn't resonate like I would like, no matter how much air I put through the horn (hint: enough to blow open a spit valve). But the upper register was like a #### laser beam! I used to make it a point to paint my target in the audience every time I had note up and over high F.

DEG Super Mag - I played on both the 3 and 4 valve versions. Neither one particularly impressed me. The big problem was that even though the low register was fairly resonant, the extreme high register didn't speak near as pretty as the low end. That's a big deal for me.

King Marching Tuba - This horn plays great and is very comfortable. A very good all-around horn. I didn't get much time to experiment with is, but I was very pleased with what I experienced. The "goober viewing hole" is a genius addition.

Jupiter Quantum Tuba - I have minimal experience with this horn, but from what I experienced, I felt the horn was extremely light and well balanced. Intonation seemed fine, but the feel wasn't all there for me. Keep in mind, I only had about 10 minutes to play with this horn, so I can't say I was able to properly evaluate it or get a complete feel for it. Seems to be on the right track though.

Yamaha Marching Tuba - Incredibly great intonation and by far the warmest tone I've ever gotten out of a marching tuba. I suspect the brass lacquer (used to be one of Crown's horns) helps with that timbre. The balance was a little weird for me, but it wasn't an uncomfortable horn to play by any stretch.

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